So... was Fred Davis a wasted pick?

[JC#17]

overreact much

[SkinsAllDay34]

Here is the jist and ive stated this many times on many different threads, but here goes again.

In the second round, Zorn took the best 3 receivers on the board, not hedging his bets on one kid that could make his team better.

Davis' selection shocked the hell out of me but I understood the rational of his selection very quickly after seeing who was available in the 2nd round in needed positions as well as Zorn's post draft conferences.

17 (48) Washington Redskins (From Texans through Falcons) Davis, Fred TE 6'4" 248 Southern Cal

[+] 18 (49) Philadelphia Eagles Jackson, DeSean WR 6'0" 178 California We didn't need another small speed receiver with ARE and Moss on the board and having drafted 2 receivers already.

[+] 19 (50) Arizona Cardinals Campbell, Calais DE 6'8" 282 Miami

3-4 DE prospect with one good year and his own former D-line coach was here and we didn't draft him.

[+] 20 (51) Washington Redskins Kelly, Malcolm WR 6'4" 218 Oklahoma

[+] 21 (52) Jacksonville Jaguars (From Buccaneers) Groves, Quentin DE 6'3" 250 Auburn

smallish DE that would not be a fit taking over the weakside DE role from Daniels. Will probably be playing OLB IMO.

[+] 22 (53) Pittsburgh Steelers Sweed, Limas WR 6'4" 212 Texas Would have rather had him over Kelly, but that is not the issue here.

[+] 23 (54) Tennessee Titans Jones, Jason DE 6'5" 273 Eastern Michigan

tweener, as he lacks bulk and ideal lower body strength to play inside and is too inconsistent with his pass rush moves to be an impact edge rusher

[+] 24 (55) Baltimore Ravens (From Seahawks) Rice, Ray RB 5'8" 199 Rutgers Didn't need another RB

[+] 25 (56) Green Bay Packers (From Browns) Brohm, Brian QB 6'3" 227 Louisville Didn't need another QB

[+] 26 (57) Miami Dolphins (From Chargers) Henne, Chad QB 6'2" 225 Michigan Didn't need another QB

[+] 27 (58) Tampa Bay Buccaneers (From Jaguars) Jackson, Dexter WR 5'10" 182 Appalachian State Didn't need another WR

[+] 28 (59) Indianapolis Colts Pollak, Mike OT 6'4" 299 Arizona State - Good prospect but would not see time due to depth chart.

[+] 29 (60) Green Bay Packers Lee, Patrick DB 6'0" 200 Auburn Not a good CB, just average. Reminds me of Rodgers with less skill.

[+] 30 (61) Dallas Cowboys Bennett, Martellus TE 6'6" 259 Texas A&M See Davis, Fred

[+] 31 (62) New England Patriots Wheatley, Terrence CB 5'9" 178 Colorado Very good prospect in spite of his size.

[+] 32 (63) New York Giants Thomas, Terrell CB 6'1" 198 Southern Cal Will probably be playing SS or FS in the NFL. Not fast enough to play CB.

As you can see, there were very few choices as to impact players at needed positions to choose from this year. The 2nd round was very devoid of DE talent, LB's, CB's or OL. There was maybe 2-3 players that I would have taken in this round.

As much as I disagree with the philosophy, the FO went BPA.

I thought the same on almost everything you stated. :applause::applause::applause::applause:

I think we got the right guys but you have to give each one time. We obviously have a plan for Davis and we have to steadily bring him along and we can afford to do that because we have Cooley and Yoder, two veterans, cooley being a PB.

[turbodiesel#44]

You're also assuming that we'd be able to sucker some one into trading up with us into a round that was limited with talent at needed positions.

See it's not that easy at all.

I'm talking about keeping our pick and not trading down, and the available players then. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

[Oldskool]

I'm talking about keeping our pick and not trading down, and the available players then. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Ok, then respond to the list of players and the reasons that we didn't draft them/didn't need them.

[turbodiesel#44]

Ok, then respond to the list of players and the reasons that we didn't draft them/didn't need them.

Your list doesn't cover the first round where our pick would have been.

[Oldskool]

Your list doesn't cover the first round where our pick would have been.

So hold on, you want to go back as far as not taking Davis, Thomas or Kelly and to see who we would have drafted?

Fact is, we wouldn't have. There were zero WR's taken in the 1st round and WR was our single biggest need.

21 Atlanta Baker, Sam OT - would not have drafted him.

22 Dallas Jones, Felix RB - No need for a RB

23 Pittsburgh Mendenhall, Rashard RB No need for a RB

24 Tennessee Johnson, Chris RB No need for a RB

25 Dallas Jenkins, Mike CB No need for another CB that high

26 Houston Brown, Duane OT Huge potential but very raw. Shouldn't draft prospects that high.

27 San Diego Cason, Antoine CB No need for another CB that high

28 Seattle Jackson, Lawrence DE Should have been available in the 2nd round

29 San Francisco Balmer, Kentwan DE 3-4 DE that would have been a misfit here. See Campbell, Calais.

30 NY Jets Keller, Dustin TE See Davis, Fred

31 NY Giants Phillips, Kenny FS No need to draft yet ANOTHER 1st round safety.

And if you want to say that we would have drafted up, I'll laugh at you right now and get it over with.

[turbodiesel#44]

And if you want to say that we would have drafted up, I'll laugh at you right now and get it over with.

I would only trade up for a dire need at QB. And I liked Brown, actually saw him play and think we might have gotten better use of him than Davis next year. Very athletic guy, and only shifted to tackle from TE a couple years before. So I would say he's a quick learner. Jenkins is another Carlos type guy, and Carlos hasn't worked out so bad for us. Cooley is going to be around a lot longer than Springs or either of our Tackles. Yoder is solid and we have Alexander and can use Sellers @ TE. Jansen is backing both tackles and we have Torrance and Tryon behind Springs. Where do you see the need for Davis that isn't trumped by other areas?

[“Misdirection”]

I would only trade up for a dire need at QB. And I liked Brown, actually saw him play and think we might have gotten better use of him than Davis next year. Very athletic guy, and only shifted to tackle from TE a couple years before. So I would say he's a quick learner. Jenkins is another Carlos type guy, and Carlos hasn't worked out so bad for us. Cooley is going to be around a lot longer than Springs or either of our Tackles. Yoder is solid and we have Alexander and can use Sellers @ TE. Jansen is backing both tackles and we have Torrance and Tryon behind Springs. Where do you see the need for Davis that isn't trumped by other areas?

The problem here is if we take one of these guys, we don't get the the big receivers in the second. Maybe one of them if we're lucky. :2cents:

And while Brown was a good prospect, he was a bit of a reach in the 1st IMHO.

[skinsfan35yrs.]

I think we should all draw long-term conclusions after three games and panic.

Everybody ready? GO!

Glad I am not the only one in a panic I just burned my Redskins stuff, oh wait you were kidding? Some one call the fire department!

HTTR

[skinsfan35yrs.]

What's wrong with Yoder?

Yes, he was a wasted pick, in the sense that we don't need him....and could have used another lineman much more.

there was no lineman available that met the value of the pick. they were not going to pay 2nd pick pay to a 3rd or 4th round value player

[LoudMouth12thMan]

I don't think that there is room for him in this offense right now. He's not stout enough, obviously, in the running game or he'd have beaten Yoder out for the second spot. They put Alexander in as a 3rd TE and Davis didn't even play Teams on Sunday. Something is amiss IMO. I hope one of the mediots does ask why he isn't playing. I'm curious.

[PCS]

There are times, when this place is the very definition of "hair trigger."

[turbodiesel#44]

There are times, when this place is the very definition of "hair trigger."

It's not a question of calling Davis out after three games. Honestly, he might be the most talented guy we got in this draft. But how is he going to fit in? What is the strategy there, and is the pick worth it from a positional standpoint. We have a PB starter and solid depth at TE.

[Rudechain]

You can't seem to keep up with the discussion. Nobody is saying Davis is not talented. We are trying to picture how he will be used when we have Cooley and Yoder catching already, and Yoder and Alexander or maybe even Sellers for blocking from the TE. Will that pick help THIS team more than a second rounder at another position whether he pans out or not?

Why think for just one season? What's to say that Yoder is not here next season and Davis plays more? Given Davis' skill set along with Cooley, they cold both move to a slot position and play as a wide receiver.

Way to early to even think it was a wasted pick. Way to early to even contemplate if he should have been drafted where he was in favor or against others drafted after him.

The team made a decision to draft two wide receivers and a tight end with the first three picks of the draft after trading down. The results of these picks will not be able to be evaluated this season. Any offensive or defensive lineman taken at that point probably would not see any more playing time than Davis has so I guess according to ES posters he would have been a wasted pick also.

Give it time, and form your evaluation after next season. Generally it takes 2-3 years to evaluate a draft. Not 3 weeks.:doh:

[BigRedskinDaddy]

So... was this a wasted thread?

Well it was something to read...but it will take two to three years to figure out. Yoder right now is much better blocker but who knows what might happen in the future. I guess that's why they pay us the big money to chat here about....I have something else to do later

Another day another dollar

If it don't make dollars it don't make sense

I was starting to think it might have been (for me) until I got to your post.

:laugh:

I owe you one...

[turbodiesel#44]

Why think for just one season? What's to say that Yoder is not here next season and Davis plays more? Given Davis' skill set along with Cooley, they cold both move to a slot position and play as a wide receiver.

2 TE's in the slot at the same time? At WR? lol. At the same time? I thought we got 2 WR's to put ARE back in the slot. You think Yoder is gone next year? Why? If we lose 2 OL like last year, who is going to be blocking? Jansen and a rookie? If Springs and Smoot go down the same week, you know Tryon will be starting, right?

[BigRedskinDaddy]

It's not a question of calling Davis out after three games. Honestly, he might be the most talented guy we got in this draft. But how is he going to fit in? What is the strategy there, and is the pick worth it from a positional standpoint. We have a PB starter and solid depth at TE.

td, as others have outlined, we have yet to see anything close to the sets and packages that JZ will roll out once everybody is on the same page. There could be 2 TE looks w/Cooley in the slot, motioned or even in the backfield or split wide for all we know. I'm not going to pretend to know what he has planned, but it's highly probable that Zorn's thinking/strategy is adaptive enough to get his best athletes, his best playmakers on the field at the same time.

I think Davis sees plenty of action this season, with good results. Beyond that who knows? Maybe we trade him for some more picks, or an established impact player who fills a need. BPA draft philosophy on its own is no better in my mind than an all draft-for-need strategy. IMHO they both fail if used exclusively. Given the players on the board and what our needs were at the time, we were right to go BPA and take Davis.

[PCS]

It's not a question of calling Davis out after three games. Honestly, he might be the most talented guy we got in this draft. But how is he going to fit in? What is the strategy there, and is the pick worth it from a positional standpoint. We have a PB starter and solid depth at TE.

Sure it is for some. Haven't seen him contribute in three games, the questions begin to arise. In this case, near as I can tell, the fellows who drafted him seemed to think he would or will fit in. Figure a little patience is in order.

[Rudechain]

2 TE's in the slot at the same time? At WR? lol. At the same time? I thought we got 2 WR's to put ARE back in the slot. You think Yoder is gone next year? Why? If we lose 2 OL like last year, who is going to be blocking? Jansen and a rookie? If Springs and Smoot go down the same week, you know Tryon will be starting, right?

Go ahead and laugh, But JZ himself said that Cooley could be used to move in motion into the slot.

And I never said Yoder is gone next year. I said he could be. This is the NFL. Players could come and go. You overreact way to much. The front office made a decision to draft pass catchers for a reason. They make a living doing this. Not like people on a message board that complain at every single thing the team does.

What is to say that Fred Davis does not end up supplanting Yoder by the end of the season? You don't know any more than anyone else on this board. Just like the rest of us you are basing your opinion on what's presented. I happen to think that this team drafted three pass catchers for a reason. The wide receivers were drafted to both give some size and to provide depth. They also have set themselves up in case Moss or ARE either end up to expensive to re-sign or their respective skill sets begin to decline.

They drafted a tight end, in my opinion, because his skill set will compliment the offense in the FUTURE. The team was not drafting for turbodiesel44, they were drafting for the next few years for the team. The team was not drafting for the first few weeks of the season, they were drafting for the next few years.

the point is, you don't know what the teams agenda was and are forming your opinion. While I agree somewhat with what your expectations were, there was not a defensive or offensive line prospect that was worthy of the pick were Davis was taken. If Merling were available, then I would have taken him. But alas, he was taken before the first of the three 2nd round picks.

The team traded down and got more picks. They had ten picks in the draft and have potentially gotten some depth. THERE WAS NO WAY ALL THE HOLES COULD HAVE BEEN FILLED IN ONE DRAFT. To think otherwise is ludicrous.

Give this draft some time. It's entering week 4. Sean Taylor did not see the field this early. I guess he was a wasted pick. Rocky did not get much playing time this early in the season during his rookie year. I guess he was a waste also. Jason Campbell never saw the field his rookie year. Another wasted pick? once again, give it time. It's early in the season and it takes time for a player to learn the playbook as well as adjusting to the NFL.

But I guess you know that and if the draft picks are not pro-bowl worthy from the first snap, they are a waste.

[turbodiesel#44]

What is to say that Fred Davis does not end up supplanting Yoder by the end of the season? You don't know any more than anyone else on this board. Just like the rest of us you are basing your opinion on what's presented. I happen to think that this team drafted three pass catchers for a reason. The wide receivers were drafted to both give some size and to provide depth. They also have set themselves up in case Moss or ARE either end up to expensive to re-sign or their respective skill sets begin to decline.

Are you saying Fred Davis is going to be a WR? Because that's what you just posted.

They drafted a tight end, in my opinion, because his skill set will compliment the offense in the FUTURE. The team was not drafting for turbodiesel44, they were drafting for the next few years for the team. The team was not drafting for the first few weeks of the season, they were drafting for the next few years.

the point is, you don't know what the teams agenda was and are forming your opinion. While I agree somewhat with what your expectations were, there was not a defensive or offensive line prospect that was worthy of the pick were Davis was taken. If Merling were available, then I would have taken him. But alas, he was taken before the first of the three 2nd round picks.

But not before our original 1st round pick.

The team traded down and got more picks. They had ten picks in the draft and have potentially gotten some depth. THERE WAS NO WAY ALL THE HOLES COULD HAVE BEEN FILLED IN ONE DRAFT. To think otherwise is ludicrous.

And to ignore all positions of need totally because you can't fill them all in one year is even more ludicrous.

Give this draft some time. It's entering week 4. Sean Taylor did not see the field this early. I guess he was a wasted pick. Rocky did not get much playing time this early in the season during his rookie year. I guess he was a waste also. Jason Campbell never saw the field his rookie year. Another wasted pick? once again, give it time. It's early in the season and it takes time for a player to learn the playbook as well as adjusting to the NFL.

We had a real, demonstrated need at all those positions except QB. I never said ANYTHING about starting ANY rookie. Where did you get that? I knew exactly who those guys were replacing and why. None of those positions had a pro bowl starter or solid depth.

But I guess you know that and if the draft picks are not pro-bowl worthy from the first snap, they are a waste.

You don't read very well, do you?

[RandyHolt]

Lets convert him to WR. With Cooley and Yoder (decent hands) entrenched ahead of him, i saw him being like a 4th WR for us. Now i figure, lets just convert him a la Colsten. Kelly is obviously injury prone and Thomas is obviously raw.

Do it Zorn line him up wide lets see him go

[Saqs]

It's not a question of calling Davis out after three games. Honestly, he might be the most talented guy we got in this draft. But how is he going to fit in? What is the strategy there, and is the pick worth it from a positional standpoint. We have a PB starter and solid depth at TE.

Pretty clear some people just read a thread title and nothing else. I think the discussion has gone pretty good regardless.

[Rudechain]

You don't read very well, do you?

I read quite well. I also realize that Zorn will use the players skill sets and make the most of them. I said, and probably not clearly enough for you, that they could motion Davis or Cooley into the slot. ( generally from a two tight end set in short yardage situations)

Your argument is inane and ridiculous. Your making assumptions on something in three weeks that generally takes three years.

You have proven yourself to me and that is that you really are not looking at this objectively.

The point is this team drafted players they felt would work of for the team in the long haul. Yoder is thirty years old, has played on three teams in his nine years and missed the entire 2005 season with a knee injury.

You don't know the future of this team, you don't know what the offense might have in store for these draft picks. You have made a rash decision based on limited information. Take a little time, like at least a season, before you make a decision.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

yeah, ummm, I thought he'd be much more of a factor early in the season....he's clearly not. And I have my doubts that he'll ever be much on a two TE package. So I'm seeing the use of this pick less and less (how is Calas Campbell doing?)....I hope I'm biting these words next week .

I'm the same way. If he was the best college TE in the nation last year and now we can even fit him in??? IDK

[turbodiesel#44]

I read quite well. I also realize that Zorn will use the players skill sets and make the most of them. I said, and probably not clearly enough for you, that they could motion Davis or Cooley into the slot. ( generally from a two tight end set in short yardage situations)

Your argument is inane and ridiculous. Your making assumptions on something in three weeks that generally takes three years.

You have proven yourself to me and that is that you really are not looking at this objectively.

The point is this team drafted players they felt would work of for the team in the long haul. Yoder is thirty years old, has played on three teams in his nine years and missed the entire 2005 season with a knee injury.

You don't know the future of this team, you don't know what the offense might have in store for these draft picks. You have made a rash decision based on limited information. Take a little time, like at least a season, before you make a decision.

I know Davis is not going to be an upgrade to our WR corps, even if we lose Moss and ARE. We have current depth problems. Right now. Our OL is quite a bit older than Yoder, and they have missed SEVERAL entire seasons between them. Recently. All your arguments belong to other positions even harder.