Next Day Thread: Redskins vs. Giants

[KDawg]

Off the top of the head:

 

-Alex Smith. I'm actually not mad at his play. Don't get me wrong, I think he is missing some opportunities and our offense is fairly boring aside from a guy named Adrian Peterson at the moment. But what he does well does benefit us.  His bad throws are so bad the safeties can't even figure them out. He protects the ball fairly well. He avoids pressure. He uses his legs. And he doesn't let the pressure of a big moment cripple him into a giant mistake. I can appreciate the things that he does bring almost as much as I loathe some of the plays he misses. But good defense and cautious QB play isn't a bad formula. So as long as the D keeps it up, Smith isn't a terrible fit.

 

-Adrian Peterson. That's all I need to say. But I will say more. He's on pace for around 1,200 yards this season and somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 TD. If he gets to 1200 he'll be the 17th Redskin to do it in a single season. And the first 1,200 yard Redskin rusher since 2013 when Alfred Morris did it. 

 

-Jordan Reed on the short stuff was fun to watch yesterday. Paul Richardson has come up big a few times for us, too. I actually like our receivers quite a bit.

 

-My huge criticism of our defense in the first few weeks was our linebackers... OLB and ILB... against the run. Our inside backers were playing soft and not downhill and our outside backers weren't setting the edge all that well. But man has that changed the last three weeks. Brown and Foster are playing downhill and aggressive. And our OLBs are not letting the play get outside of them. It's been awesome to watch. I am BIG time impressed with the inside backers especially. They seemed to flip a switch over night. I don't know if it was a schematic thing or just they decided to be nasty sons of guns but they are balling.

 

-Daron Payne. Jon Allen. Matt Ioannidas.

 

-Tress Way. What a gritty performance. When your punter is a gritty son of a gun the offense and the defense has to be motivated to push themselves or face the wrath of being labeled as softer than the punter. I love Tress Way. He's an underrated aspect of our team. Shoutout to Hopkins, too, who has been pretty damn reliable for us. I know he missed yesterday, but that's gonna happen.

 

-D.J. ****ing Swearinger. Despite "better" players on the defense. He's probably our most valuable piece right now. He's not Sean Taylor. But he plays similarly. Just aggressive and all over the field. Best safety we've had since ST21 in my opinion.

 

-Norman has stepped up.

 

-The offensive line. AGAIN. They were awesome yesterday. Continuity and Shawn Lauvao. I'm going to keep trumpeting Lauvao because people here gave me a ton of **** every time I said he wasn't as bad as people think he is. Time and time again the guy just shows he gets it. He and Williams executed an awesome slip and pick up block on the DE on one play yesterday that let Trent get to the corner. It was beautiful. 

 

-Despite all the positives, we do have to keep in mind it was ugly. This team is going to be ugly all season. And the Giants are a very, very bad football team at the moment. 

 

-GOATS: I don't have any. While the team didn't look great yesterday, there was nothing that I saw that stood out as a bad set of plays or a terrible game. Playcalling/coaching included. Mistakes were made, but its football and that happens. But absolutely no one made those giant critical mistakes. That's my biggest takeaway from yesterday. The Skins won with some grit and discipline. That is the model for building a future.

 

Hail to the Redskins.

[bakedtater1]

Yesterday was a weird game..I stayed humble, had butterflies but didn't, was worried but wasn't..we got the win and I'll take it and now on to Atlanta..

[bowhunter]

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

-The offensive line. AGAIN. They were awesome yesterday. Continuity and Shawn Lauvao. I'm going to keep trumpeting Lauvao because people here gave me a ton of **** every time I said he wasn't as bad as people think he is. Time and time again the guy just shows he gets it. He and Williams executed an awesome slip and pick up block on the DE on one play yesterday that let Trent get to the corner. It was beautiful. 

 

 

I read this morning that T.Williams dislocated thumb had him say that he was currently "uncertain" for next week.  We need to keep this O-line continuity going.

[cakmoney61]

I had stated in the prediction thread that the Redskins would win because their biggest advantage was their DL was superior to the Giants atrocious OL and that's what played out for the most part.  They absolutely shut down the running game again and put a lot of pressure on Eli Manning sacking him six times.  Without doubt, the better team won.

 

Kudos to the defense, special teams, and AP.  So far this year, these have been the main reasons for the 5-2 record. 

 

Regarding Alex Smith, he didn't turn the ball over.  Yay (sarcasm).  He may be a better S or CB than QB?  Just kidding...I think.?

[Wildbunny]

Norman has stepped up. But he should have gotten that INT. There was place for a big return.

[KDawg]

Just now, cakmoney61 said:

 

 

Regarding Alex Smith, he didn't turn the ball over.  Yay (sarcasm).  He may be a better S or CB than QB?  Just kidding...I think.?

 

Smith is strange. Again, I don't want to turn this into a Cousins debate, so I'm only stating things I see as fact:

 

-Cousins made the offense a hell of a lot more fun to watch. But I always had this sinking feeling of despair in closing moments that he was going to blow it. And I was right more often than I cared to have been.

 

-Smith is boring as hell. But I don't have the feeling of despair. It's more, "meh. Well, at least he probably won't turn it over".

 

-With Cousins we were in more shoot outs. With Smith we're in more, "holy crap can we please score" games. 

 

Upon writing this, it's not really much of a Cousins vs. Smith observation at all. Just how the team is operating differently. So far it's worked out for the record. We'll see if it continues.

[superozman]

Just going to reiterate some things because the emphasis will help the crappy stereotypes people put some players in:

 

1.  Luavao & the whole line.  AKA the whole line, including Luavao did great.  It's been awesome with him back in it.  Big test in the Falcons next week though...

2.  Norman with a solid game flying around, wish he had that pick.  That could have been a HUGE confidence builder.

 

For me, the passing game will get there.  I think we need to hit a few more deeper routes but yesterday was to Alex's strength.  We will see if we need some bigger plays vs. ATL.

[DJHJR86]

5-2 feels so good.  The last time we went 5-2 to start the season was 2008.  Unless AP gets hurt, I don't see a total second half melt down like there was in 2008.  This season feels different.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Smith is strange. Again, I don't want to turn this into a Cousins debate, so I'm only stating things I see as fact:

 

-Cousins made the offense a hell of a lot more fun to watch. But I always had this sinking feeling of despair in closing moments that he was going to blow it. And I was right more often than I cared to have been.

 

-Smith is boring as hell. But I don't have the feeling of despair. It's more, "meh. Well, at least he probably won't turn it over".

 

-With Cousins we were in more shoot outs. With Smith we're in more, "holy crap can we please score" games. 

 

Upon writing this, it's not really much of a Cousins vs. Smith observation at all. Just how the team is operating differently. So far it's worked out for the record. We'll see if it continues.

 

The formula is working when we get the lead. Right now, our successful outings play the long game....we bide our time and wait until things fall into place for us to score. That's generally happened 3-4 times per game. So, when we don't fall behind and don't need more 20ish points, we have a very good chance to win. 

 

But, two things. 

 

1) The formula breaks down when we get behind the sticks. We are rarely going to convert third-and-long so any sack, penalty, negative yardage play instantly puts that drive in peril. Add to that the fact that negative plays are more common when you aren't getting big chunks (it's hard even in the NFL for teams to go 10, 12, 15 plays without a false start, holding call, protection breakdown, etc.), and that's why we only seem to "hit" on 3-4 scoring drives per game. 

 

2) Eventually we are going to have games (possibly as soon as this coming Sunday when we need to match an offense drive for drive. That's where the Alex Smith formula can bite you. I don't see us keeping up in a game where we need 30 points. And then, as a 7-point deficit becomes 10 or 14, I see the offense getting desperate and ugly. 

[cakmoney61]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Smith is strange. Again, I don't want to turn this into a Cousins debate, so I'm only stating things I see as fact:

 

-Cousins made the offense a hell of a lot more fun to watch. But I always had this sinking feeling of despair in closing moments that he was going to blow it. And I was right more often than I cared to have been.

 

-Smith is boring as hell. But I don't have the feeling of despair. It's more, "meh. Well, at least he probably won't turn it over".

 

 

That's interesting.  Although he hasn't been, Smith looks and feels turnover prone.  For me, Cousins felt turnover prone late in games while Smith feels turnover prone every time he drops back to pass.

 

I hate when Smith drops back to pass!!!!!  But it doesn't matter how I feel, because he doesn't turn the ball over and his team usually wins.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

The formula is working when we get the lead. Right now, our successful outings play the long game....we bide our time and wait until things fall into place for us to score. That's generally happened 3-4 times per game. So, when we don't fall behind and don't need more 20ish points, we have a very good chance to win. 

 

But, two things. 

 

1) The formula breaks down when we get behind the sticks. We are rarely going to convert third-and-long so any sack, penalty, negative yardage play instantly puts that drive in peril. Add to that the fact that negative plays are more common when you aren't getting big chunks (it's hard even in the NFL for teams to go 10, 12, 15 plays without a false start, holding call, protection breakdown, etc.), and that's why we only seem to "hit" on 3-4 scoring drives per game. 

 

2) Eventually we are going to have games (possibly as soon as this coming Sunday when we need to match an offense drive for drive. That's where the Alex Smith formula can bite you. I don't see us keeping up in a game where we need 30 points. And then, as a 7-point deficit becomes 10 or 14, I see the offense getting desperate and ugly. 

 

Agree with the above.

 

But, being in a shootout with Atlanta wouldn't have been good with Kirk, either, if he turned the ball over in the waning moments. It's really a catch-22, isn't it? Smith is safe, but boring and uninspiring. Kirk is fun to watch, puts up good numbers, but reckless in pivotal moments. Both styles have their pros and cons. And I often find myself trying to figure out which one would be better. And the answer is usually some combination. So let's draft T'ua.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1. DJ Swearinger.

 

2. DJ Swearinger

 

3. AP

 

The end.

 

No seriously, DJ Swearinger is playing on another level.  His attitude and “swag” to boot clearly rubs off on the unit as a whole.  That first pick, BOSS.

 

AP: I wanted to get him last year and some folks were hellbent on telling me he was washed up and when he had a bad game would post updates of his stat lines.  I didn’t watch the Cards enough to know what all went into it but it’s safe to say looking at Johnson fall

off a cliff this year, it’s the line.  It’s almost fairy tale like that our drafted “savior” at the position tears his ACL and the Hof’er is waiting for a call. 

 

That said, if I was to nitpick at all, it would be that I’d prefer Jay cut down on some of the shotgun runs and just let him pound the football up the middle.

[London Kev]

I had to miss the first three quarters and will be watching the full game later, but Doctson had five receptions off five targets for 49 yards. I've been saying it for a while, don't give up on Josh just yet. He might not be the most vocal guy in the world but he can be an excellent possession receiver. Just got to throw him the right balls.

[kingdaddy]

- Alex made some clutch throws....he's getting there, still developing chemistry with Reed, Doc and others. . Vernon had a key drop on him too.

- Norman is a different player since New Orleans. It was the wake up call he needed for sure.

- The option....not sure about this if it's not gonna be blocked better. I like the wrinkle but that's two old guys trying to run something that is designed for college kids to run. Smith to AP doesn't seem the same on the option as RGlll to Morris.

- Eli: We need to do whatever we can do as Redskin Nation to make sure the Giants management stays committed to him for 5 more years.

- Doctson: He is getting more and more involved. Like Jay said, bigger days are coming for him. I like him vs. Atlanta.

- Gruden: I knew he would have the team ready to compete yesterday for some reason. I think he may have learned something from New Orleans loss too. This team comes to play physical football now and whoever plays the Redskins better be ready for a very physical game. We bring the wood. 

- Thompson, Crowder, Reed: These are 3 critical pieces that we've yet to get much of anything out of....I still believe this offense can be much, much better but these three will need to be more involved. Reed especially, but all 3 of them are key cogs. 

12 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

5-2 feels so good.  The last time we went 5-2 to start the season was 2008.  Unless AP gets hurt, I don't see a total second half melt down like there was in 2008.  This season feels different.  

I'm with you. Boy would it be nice to add one more piece to the secondary though. Something about seeing #37 on OBJ scares me. I'd offer Arizona a #1 and #4 for Patrick Peterson and see if they bite. If we could fit him under the cap.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Agree with the above.

 

But, being in a shootout with Atlanta wouldn't have been good with Kirk, either, if he turned the ball over in the waning moments. It's really a catch-22, isn't it? Smith is safe, but boring and uninspiring. Kirk is fun to watch, puts up good numbers, but reckless in pivotal moments. Both styles have their pros and cons. And I often find myself trying to figure out which one would be better. And the answer is usually some combination. So let's draft T'ua.

 

I was trying, like you, to avoid the direct comparison...but here goes. I could be wrong, but it feels like this to me (and in fairness to Smith, I only have one shootout data point which was a horrible game by most of the team)...

 

With Cousins, we'd stay in the game and have a shot to win in the 4th quarter. He very well might end the game with a bad play, but one out of three or four times he would win the game for us. 

 

With Smith, it feels like we just flat out wouldn't keep up. 

[KDawg]

Just now, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I was trying, like you, to avoid the direct comparison...but here goes. I could be wrong, but it feels like this to me (and in fairness to Smith, I only have one shootout data point which was a horrible game by most of the team)...

 

With Cousins, we'd stay in the game and have a shot to win in the 4th quarter. He very well might end the game with a bad play, but one out of three or four times he would win the game for us. 

 

With Smith, it feels like we just flat out wouldn't keep up. 

 

Agreed. Again. But either way the end result is similar. Just how we get there.

 

If our D can slow down Atlanta, we can win. If we get in a shootout, we probably won't. But with Cousins at QB we'd be in the game for longer in a shootout, but still most likely lose. It's a strange, weird world out here. And I can't figure it out for the life of me. 

 

Bottom line is, the Skins will need to control the ball and have the D play on their game to make this work next week. I actually think they can do it, too. But if the Falcons score in bunches it could get ugly. The only caveat I have here is that the Falcons aren't the Saints.

[Spaceman Spiff]

11 minutes ago, London Kev said:

I had to miss the first three quarters and will be watching the full game later, but Doctson had five receptions off five targets for 49 yards. I've been saying it for a while, don't give up on Josh just yet. He might not be the most vocal guy in the world but he can be an excellent possession receiver. Just got to throw him the right balls.

 

The past two weeks they've been able to connect on that little inside slant.  It's been a good look and if that's what it takes to get him catches and some yardage, that's alright.  I don't think Doctson is ever going to be a true #1 gamebreaking receiver but as long as he can contribute as a possession guy and keep the chains moving, that's fine with me.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

To me the 2018 Washington Redskins established their identity yesterday and I love it. We have now seen 3 consecutive wins with 3 consecutive play styles. This is a old school team. We will run the football, wear down your D and nickel & dime our way down field . On defense we are going to control the line scrimmage take away your run and harass your QB all game. If you are the type of fair weather fan who would rather look good and lose then look bad and win, well, the door is that way --------> Me I'll enjoy the playoffs this year, HTTR

 

 

[Bang]

A few thoughts from yesterday big win.

1. Defense = PYTHON LEVEL.
You ever watch a python kill something? It's slow, it's inevitable. The thing it has hold of might kick a little, it might squirm a little, but overall it is slowly and surely squeezed until it doesn't move at all.
This is the Redskins defense. 
Right now they are #2 in rushing defense behind the Saints. They are truly #1. the Saints opponents are throwing a lot to stay in the game, the Redskins are not blowing out anyone, no one is abandoning their run game to shoot it out with the Redskins offense.
The rushers they have faced are among the best in the league. Barkley, Elliott, McCaffrey/Cam have rushed for less than 100 yards combined against us right n a row. (Kamara also went nowhere, but the Saints weren't trying to run anyway.)

I am officially throwing "PYTHON" out there as the nickname of our defense.


 

2. AP ran for 150 yards and the team as a whole rushed for 180 yards. 
THIS IS OFFENSE, folks. Everyone is so enamored with the pass, all concerned about not getting downfield.
It doesn't matter when you have a defense that is this good and a running game that is this good.
The offense DEFINITELY can be much better, and there are problems to iron out. BUT, when you can run the ball like this and clamp down on opponents like we do, this is winning soundly.
I see the usual doom and gloom this morning.. we better pass when we do this! or that!.. well, so far we've run through almost half the schedule and are 3 games over .500. 
So, while people worry about what will happen if we face this team or that team, next week we face the Falcons, and that is all that matters.
AND, for that we better pass effectively. Atlanta has too many weapons to expect we can hold them to 17.
But so far, build wins. Win the division, get to the postseason. And right now, that is a realistic goal.

 

3. Alex Smith has a new nickname from me.
Jason Campbell Lite. Dicky Double Clutch.
Here's me during a Campbell play:
ThrowtheballthrowtheBALLthrowtheBALLTHROWTHEBALLTHROWIT!!THROWTHEBALL!!!!
I sound the same during a Smith play, although shorter. He doesn't hold it as long but damn, he double clutches like nobody i've seen since Jason. THROW IT.
Why is he not throwing on that first motion? They aren't pump fakes, they are a lack of confidence in what he sees.
It's good he's not turning the ball over, but we're also not getting much YAC.

 

4. Smith still... seems slower even when scrambling.. seems to have a hard time deciding it is time to run or time to stand in. He did stay in the pocket more yesterday, but when things broke down a little, he seemed to me to not have any feel of where to go to buy himself some time.. because it's there. he is getting good protection. Yesterday he was better than against Dallas, but still not good pocket awareness or confidence.

 

5. Josh Doctson grows some more, had what i thought might have been his best game as a pro. Tough plays, hard routes, good hands. didn't drop anything and for the first time i can recall, he got some YAC on a play. His blocking was superb.
Liking what I am seeing as Doctson goes along.

 

6. Tight Ends.. is it me or does Reed seem to be playing it a little lazy? Probably not, maybe he just started off a little slow yesterday, he wasn't loafing.. but it didn't look like his best effort.
i love how he turns the ball up at the sticks to fight for that first down, but he also tends to do that spin-back when he's on a dead run heading into the flat.. he loses his momentum. he had one in the first half yesterday,, maybe his 3rd catch.. he caught it on a short wheel and turned that spin instead of continuing on.. probably could have had 3 or 4 more yards than he got. (This is a nit-picky point.)

Davis with another terrible blocking error.. this one a penalty on a little bubble screen to Mo Harris that took away a first down early in the game. he's straight up a liability unless he's catching the ball.

 

7. Defensive line,, holy smokes. MOST of you, this is the best Redskins DL you have ever seen. By FAR. This is rivaling the 80s teams, and that is no hyperbole. The defensive line IS the identity of the team. Allen and Payne are everything as advertised. They are worth every bit of the first round picks we used on them. 100% home run. 
Ionnidas;; holy smokes, this guy is KILLING it. leads the team in sacks, plugs up the middle completely. He is HUGE and playing bigger. Almost unblockable, he just shoves his way into the backfield like a grizzly bear in a powder room.

 

8. Mason Foster had a great day.. great instincts, flashing into gaps. he still suffers slightly in pass D.. not the fastest guy, but a damn good LB playing the run. Not bad at all for an off-the-street emergency signing. BIG fan of his and getting bigger.

 

9. DJ Swearinger is playing GREAT.. i'm hearing "All Pro" mentioned.. maybe. That sure would be nice. Regardless, Bruce or Doug better be on the phone with his agent locking him up. He is what we've been looking for since Sean. He has stabilized the secondary. He is a ballhawk that we have not had. He has the attitude we have not had. He is SMART, tackles well, plays as well at the line of scrimmage as he does deep.

 

10. Greg Stroman,, they identified him early and went at him a lot.. then in the second half, he got a hold on things. The scheme changed a bit to give him a little help and gave him some space to work with, and his play picked up considerably. I'd give him a very good day especially given the level of WR competition.

 

11. 5-2. Game and a half lead in the division. It's laid out there for us. Control is nice.

 

~Bang

[bakedtater1]

I guess my dad was right we did miss a field goal yesterday I must have been outside...

[cakmoney61]

3 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

To me the 2018 Washington Redskins established their identity yesterday and I love it. We have now seen 3 consecutive wins with 3 consecutive play styles. This is a old school team. We will run the football, wear down your D and nickel & dime our way down field . On defense we are going to control the line scrimmage take away your run and harass your QB all game. If you are the type of fair weather fan who would rather look good and lose then look bad and win, well, the door is that way --------> Me I'll enjoy the playoffs this year, HTTR

 

 

Love your post minus the last two comments.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Agreed. Again. But either way the end result is similar. Just how we get there.

 

If our D can slow down Atlanta, we can win. If we get in a shootout, we probably won't. But with Cousins at QB we'd be in the game for longer in a shootout, but still most likely lose. It's a strange, weird world out here. And I can't figure it out for the life of me. 

 

Bottom line is, the Skins will need to control the ball and have the D play on their game to make this work next week. I actually think they can do it, too. But if the Falcons score in bunches it could get ugly. The only caveat I have here is that the Falcons aren't the Saints.

 

Makes sense...I do believe that we have a shot to contain their offense. I was more focusing in on the QBs and what they can control in the event that a game turned into a shootout. Sunday may not, but inevitably we'll be in a couple. 

 

Again, the big x-factor is seeing Smith when he MUST push the ball. He's done it before in other cities and I'm not ready to write him off because he didn't do it well in that buzzsaw of a NO game. 

[bakedtater1]

We held that rookie of theres to under 40 yards...our defense is SUPER BOWL GOOD FOLKS!!

[cakmoney61]

11 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

We held that rookie of theres to under 40 yards...our defense is SUPER BOWL GOOD FOLKS!!

I'm not mad at your proclamation because you may be right.  Time will tell, however, so I need to see more before I go all in with you.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I'm liking the growing rapport between Doctson and Smith.  Smith seems to now feel comfortable throwing to Doctson on certain routes or looks.

 

Question, what has to happen with Doctson in the remaining 9 games for us to pick up his 5th year option?  That decision happens in the off-season.  Right now I'm not seeing anything to indicate that happens.  That said, he's figuring out how to contribute, and I'm eager to see what his next 9 games look like.

 

What I'm confused by is how we aren't doing the quick outs to the sideline for a few yard passing gain.  We're talking about dink and dunk, but isn't that a staple?  We did it with Kirk.  There was a 3rd and 1 where we had I think Mo Harris out wide, the corner was playing like 8 yards off.  Instead his route went vertical, Smith went elsewhere, and we didn't convert.

 

Shouldn't that have been an audible and an easy conversion?