wit33 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: More than nothing. Skins got 16 games of a starter and will receive 3rd round compensation. Many choose to throw out value of having Kirk last season, but value does exist in this. Yes, we choose to throw out last year due to no playoffs, but that’s not the correct way to approach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, wit33 said: Skins got 16 games of a starter and will receive 3rd round compensation. Many choose to throw out value of having Kirk last season, but value does exist in this. Yes, we choose to throw out last year due to no playoffs, but that’s not the correct way to approach it. Could receive 3rd round compensation. The fact of the matter is like goskins10 said, is that Bruce Allen is paid mightily to forecast these things, and unlike the weatherman - he's not allowed to be wrong. But apparently he is with a significant portion of our fan base and even more sadly, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onedrop Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 50 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Could receive 3rd round compensation. The fact of the matter is like goskins10 said, is that Bruce Allen is paid mightily to forecast these things, and unlike the weatherman - he's not allowed to be wrong. But apparently he is with a significant portion of our fan base and even more sadly, Dan. cousins is leaving, bruce and dan are not, most of us fans are too invested not to stay. a person can twist their mind into all kinds of knots convincing themselves why to remain in a familiar house when there are no other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Cognitive Biases in Sports: The Irrationality of Coaches, Commentators and Fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Could receive 3rd round compensation. The fact of the matter is like goskins10 said, is that Bruce Allen is paid mightily to forecast these things, and unlike the weatherman - he's not allowed to be wrong. But apparently he is with a significant portion of our fan base and even more sadly, Dan. We could speculate about what we could have gotten for Kirk, and there were plenty of reports of offers and speculation on what the price would be. But someone rehashing Bruce Allen spin and asking that question feels like a set-up for some version of "you can't prove that" in response to whatever guess you make. In other words: I think it's largely immaterial. We don't know what we could have gotten because Brucey didn't listen to offers. That he didn't make a serious effort to sign him and simultaneously wouldn't entertain trade proposals for him is such a ludicrous thing for fans to be defending that I have trouble taking a lot of it seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 @FrFan What an excellent and very though-provoking article. It aligns with quite a few of my own beliefs that the vitriol some fans have toward the team don't really align or make sense considering where the program stands at this given moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: @FrFan What an excellent and very though-provoking article. It aligns with quite a few of my own beliefs that the vitriol some fans have toward the team don't really align or make sense considering where the program stands at this given moment. Perhaps you missed the part where they are saying that folks ignore the data when both utilizing conformation bias & motivated reasoning. If anyone is ignoring the data, it's the folks who don't have vitriol towards the owner/FO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Perhaps you missed the part where they are saying that folks ignore the data when both utilizing conformation bias & motivated reasoning. If anyone is ignoring the data, it's the folks who don't have vitriol towards the owner/FO. It is definitely a double edged sword. One us Redskins fans have been falling on for 25 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said: We don't know what we could have gotten because Brucey didn't listen to offers. That he didn't make a serious effort to sign him and simultaneously wouldn't entertain trade proposals for him is such a ludicrous thing for fans to be defending that I have trouble taking a lot of it seriously. So much this. It's mind boggling to me how Kirk is a con-man and Bruce is the elderly gentleman that sent his money to Nigeria, only to never get his lottery winnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 59 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: @FrFan What an excellent and very though-provoking article. It aligns with quite a few of my own beliefs that the vitriol some fans have toward the team don't really align or make sense considering where the program stands at this given moment. Come join the cognitive darkside we've got cookies and beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 6 hours ago, goskins10 said: I will always be team first player second fan. Had they gotten something tangible for Kirk - like a 1st, 2nd or a few other picks or maybe a 3rd rd pick and young CB - oh wait that was Andy Reid - then I could live with it. They took a shot. They don't believe in Kirk so they moved him and got at least some reasonable compensation. But they managed the process in the only manner that hurt the team the most - they had to pay for a replacement (over paid IMO) and they let Kirk go for zero compensation outside at most a possible 3rd comp pick for 2019! It sounds great but we didn't find out he was a commodity until 2015 and that was his contract year. We tagged him because we weren't sure what he was and I know by your posts at that time you were fine (so was I) with us putting the tag on Kirk before the 2016 season because it made sense to want to see more consistency before you unload a LTD. Kirk being "all in" was vital to any tag and trade situation, what makes you think at any time that he would have been willing to be traded on the tag? He wouldn't do it this year, are you moving the goal posts and saying we should have done it after the 2015 season? Was it going to happen last year? Your point about getting compensation isn't wrong but when you look at how things unfolded I don't believe there was an opportunity to get any because Kirk was never going to be cooperative in that transaction. I hate making excuses for the FO but in this case, I have a hard time identifying when the window of opportunity was there to trade Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Looks like Smith cap hit is about $16.1 million, I just heard after Smiths contract we will have $31.6M in cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 3 hours ago, JSSkinz said: Your point about getting compensation isn't wrong but when you look at how things unfolded I don't believe there was an opportunity to get any because Kirk was never going to be cooperative in that transaction. I hate making excuses for the FO but in this case, I have a hard time identifying when the window of opportunity was there to trade Kirk. I think the time to trade him was last year around draft time. I never saw the logic in keeping him in hopes that his asking price would drop after the 2017 season. It seems like you are expecting something bad to happen, so that other teams wouldn't offer as much to him in free agency. If he stays the same, or plays better, his price goes up. If he tanks... and no one else wants him, then how sure are we that the Skins would still want to sign him to a LTD. From my perspective, the decision to not trade him last year had very little up side. Of course, if the season turned out differently, maybe both sides would have felt better about moving forward together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 5 hours ago, JSSkinz said: It sounds great but we didn't find out he was a commodity until 2015 and that was his contract year. We tagged him because we weren't sure what he was and I know by your posts at that time you were fine (so was I) with us putting the tag on Kirk before the 2016 season because it made sense to want to see more consistency before you unload a LTD. Kirk being "all in" was vital to any tag and trade situation, what makes you think at any time that he would have been willing to be traded on the tag? He wouldn't do it this year, are you moving the goal posts and saying we should have done it after the 2015 season? Was it going to happen last year? Your point about getting compensation isn't wrong but when you look at how things unfolded I don't believe there was an opportunity to get any because Kirk was never going to be cooperative in that transaction. I hate making excuses for the FO but in this case, I have a hard time identifying when the window of opportunity was there to trade Kirk. Yoy are right I was ok with the first tag - however the caveat was that unless he ranked they understood they would have to pay up - they even said as much when they tagged Kirk. They failed. People can make all the excuses they want but it’s thier job to be prepared. And i disagree re: the $24m tag keeping him from being traded. At that point he would have been more likely to have been ok with the tab and trade. There were already rumors he did not feel wanted here. At that point wh block a trade out of spite as long as he gets to go to a team he wants to go to. The difference this year is $10m. - $24 to $34m. Again, while we may have not seen it coming - although many did, the FO was unprepared. That’s their one main function and they failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Whether or not fans would do this or that, was cool with this or that, etc. means jack. That goes for what I think, you think, any fan thinks. We all have regular jobs and watch all the games and spend entirely too much time talking about it. We haven’t been around professional football for our entire adult lives nor are we paid millions to build professional football teams. Bottom line is that it’s totally okay for us to be wrong. We’re not paid to be right. A fan being okay with a move the FO made that ended up poorly doesn’t make the move any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 11 hours ago, wit33 said: @goskins10 Just for the fun of it: What do you feel the Skins would’ve gotten back for Kirk on a franchise tag of 24mil last year? Nobody knows but the 49ers were interested and apparently the Redskins like Alex Smith. The Chiefs drafted his replacement too and the Chiefs fans hated the guy. Redskins trade Kirk to SF, SF gives draft picks to the Chiefs, the Chiefs trade Smith to the Redskins. Everybody gets what they want. I would have trolled that as well because Alex Smith is IMO a deluxe version of Jason Campbell but I bet that trade would have been completed easily. But Dan and Bruce never would have taken the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 looks like in reality a three year deal including this year, so they basically extended him 2 years. Guaranteed money being the operative thing here. Ian RapoportVerified account @RapSheet FollowingFollowing @RapSheet More Contract note, as guaranteed money continues to be an important topic: #Redskins QB Alex Smith’s 4-year, $94M deal that’ll be official Wednesday includes $55M guaranteed at signing & $71M fully guaranteed by the start of 2019. Nearly as much as Matt Stafford, more than Jimmy G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Chris Russell @Russellmania621 35s36 seconds ago More Chris Russell Retweeted Ian Rapoport If I am understanding this right -- This is JUST on the extension. Essentially if you roll in 2018 contract, it's about $72 miillion at trade/signing and $89 million fully guaranteed. Chris Russell added, Ian RapoportVerified account @RapSheet Contract note, as guaranteed money continues to be an important topic: #Redskins QB Alex Smith’s 4-year, $94M deal that’ll be official Wednesday includes $55M guaranteed at signing & $71M fully guaranteed by the start of 2019. Nearly as much as Matt Stafford, more than Jimmy G 0 replies0 retweets0 likes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 My take on that is his 2019 and 2020 money fully guarantees at the start of the next league year. I'd suggest it really could then become a 3 year 71mil deal starting this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 My take on that is no wonder Alex Smith "Wants to be here". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Any guesses on when Alex Smith’s first press conference as a Redskins QB will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: Any guesses on when Alex Smith’s first press conference as a Redskins QB will be? Part of me wants to say Friday, but I don't think the team will want it to get washed away with the weekend. I'm going to go with Monday, March 19th. I expect them to bring in everyone: Jay, Dan, Doug, Bruce. The trophies will be in front of the podium. It will be "a proud day to be a Redskin." There will be some thinly veiled shots at Kirk of the 'wants to be here' variety without saying names, some embellishing going on in regards to just how much Alex wanted to be here and likewise for the team, and so on. This is going to be a spectacle for sure. The thing is I don't have any ill-will towards Alex Smith at all. Poor guy doesn't know what's most likely coming his way, outside of a potentially guaranteed 90M+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 On 3/5/2018 at 2:09 PM, hatchetwound said: Im shocked how many people hate this trade. Lets face it. We are to good to have a high draft pick to draft a QB. Kirk wants to much money. The only way we can land ourselves a top flight QB is to get creative. A former #1 overall pick with superbowl experience? Yes please!!!! Smith played in a Super Bowl? By that logic, Jim Sorgi was a Super Bowl-winning QB. On 3/4/2018 at 7:41 PM, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said: Cousins had FAST Desean..the best long ball "tracker" in the game...and Garcon...THAT made the long ball available. Gruden complained that Kirk didn't trust the receivers in 2017 and thus didn't throw long..so Capt Checkdown played it safe Honest to Christ, have any of you people ever watched Alex Smith play quarterback? Chris Thompson is going to catch 200 passes next year. On 3/4/2018 at 7:12 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Something I’ve been seeing of late is that the Chiefs line wasn’t so hot and that Alex is also great at avoiding the pressure. Alex can certainly evade pressure pretty well, we saw that on display for ourselves. But he also has a tendency to see pressure that isn’t there and bails early. He’s not the type that’s going to stand in there, brace for collision, and deliver a dime. At least in what I’ve watched of him combined with what I’ve heard and read over the last month. He will not risk a fumble. He probably bails out into sacks more than any QB in the league. The good news is, he doesn't fumble, and he doesn't take big hits. The bad news on 3rd and 4, he may just sort of fall down in the backfield if he feels pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Realistically, how long is Alex the starter? My guess 3 years. If the Skins finish 6-10 or worse as I think they will; there will be a new coach in 2019. That new coach, will probably want us to draft a new QB to groom and take over eventually. If we draft a QB in round 1 in 2019; then Alex is probably gone in 2020. If we draft a QB later, then Alex is probably here 3 years; while the young QB sits and learns. I don't view Alex as a long term answer. His chances for remaining a long term starter; lie with Gruden not getting fired. If Gruden gets fired, the next coach will want someone else as a long term answer and Alex will be nothing more than a short term solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Wow, with that kind of money they extended Alex. And I like Alex Smith. I wonder if they are regretting this with Drew Brees now in play among other things. As much as i like Smith (though I hate the trade), I'd take Drew Brees for another 2-3 years over Alex Smith any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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