Vox: How the baby boomers — not millennials — screwed America

[No Excuses]

 

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Well, the damage done to the social fabric is pretty self-evident. Just look around and notice what’s been done. On the economic front, the damage is equally obvious, and it trickles down to all sorts of other social phenomena. I don’t want to get bogged down in an ocean of numbers and data here (that’s in the book), but think of it this way: I’m 41, and when I was born, the gross debt-to-GDP ratio was about 35 percent. It’s roughly 103 percent now — and it keeps rising.

 

The boomers inherited a rich, dynamic country and have gradually bankrupted it. They habitually cut their own taxes and borrow money without any concern for future burdens. They’ve spent virtually all our money and assets on themselves and in the process have left a financial disaster for their children.

 

We used to have the finest infrastructure in the world. The American Society of Civil Engineers thinks there’s something like a $4 trillion deficit in infrastructure in deferred maintenance. It’s crumbling, and the boomers have allowed it to crumble. Our public education system has steadily degraded as well, forcing middle-class students to bury themselves in debt in order to get a college education.

 

Then of course there’s the issue of climate change, which they’ve done almost nothing to solve. But even if we want to be market-oriented about this, we can think of the climate as an asset, which has degraded over time thanks to the inaction and cowardice of the boomer generation. Now they didn’t start burning fossil fuels, but by the 1990s the science was undeniable. And what did they do? Nothing.

 

 

 

https://www.vox.com/2017/12/20/16772670/baby-boomers-millennials-congress-debt

 

The feelings generation indeed.

 

 

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This is a generation that is dominated by feelings, not by facts. The irony is that boomers criticize millennials for being snowflakes, for being too driven by feelings. But the boomers are the first big feelings generation. They’re highly motivated by feelings and not persuaded by facts. And you can see this in their policies.

 

Take this whole fantasy about trickle-down economics. Maybe it was worth a shot, but it doesn’t work. We know it doesn’t work. The evidence is overwhelming. The experiment is over. And yet they’re still clinging to this dogma, and indeed the latest tax bill is the latest example of that.

 

Time after time, when facts collided with feelings, the boomers choose feelings.

 

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

The worst generation

 

history will judge the boomers harshly 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Decent article that's more about bashing the Republicans and making them the issue in this country than anything else.  Still, good points throughout.  I tell my parents how Boomers ruined it for everyone, they get all salty.  It's great.

 

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More than voting, though, millennials have to run for office because people have to be excited about the person they’re voting for. We need people in office with a different outlook, who see the world differently. Boomers don’t care about how the country will look in 30 or 40 years, but millennials do, and so those are the people we need in power.

 

I take a little umbrage with this.  "Excitement" is a piss poor reason for voting for someone.  It's partially how we got Trump.  Excitement = cult of personality.

 

I disagree that millennials have a different outlook.  Ultimately, people vote for their interests.  People may like to look like they're altruistic and unselfish but people vote for what's best for them.  There's no evidence that millennials care about how the country will look in 30-40 years.  There's no evidence that millennials won't vote for their own selfish, personal interests.  The notion that they're somehow enlightened and, on a dime, can change 200+ years of thinking is silly.

 

On every high school and college campus there's wide eyed and idealistic kids running around not understanding how real life works.  It's not their fault, they've mostly never had to work a job, pay rent, pay bills, be a provider and make a living.  They don't know what they don't know.  Not their fault, it's just how it works.

 

Anyway, George Carlin (even though he's over the hill here) can say it better than I can.  NSFW, language.  It was true then, it's true now.

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

The GenX, anti-boomer anthem.

[NoCalMike]

The Baby Boomers were fed "Greed is Good" from young-adult hood and have stuck with it 30 years into their adulthood. The Greatest Generation did what they could to make it better for the next in line, the baby boomers took that generosity and reciprocated it 10x for themselves, then they turn around and blame millennials for growing up in a world the Boomers have made worse. The Boomers largely did this too themselves and are now being comforted and able to stay in denial by being told to blame everyone else for the results of the economic policy they supported.

[Bozo the kKklown]

This is a discriminatory article based on the views of a poster on this forum.

 

 

 

But yeah, the Boomers have destroyed this country and may have destroyed the world. They are the worst generation and we probably will never dig out from the mess they created.

[Springfield]

The snowflakes are gonna save it.

[Xameil]

boomers...millennials....they both suck but for different reasons, and they are making Baby Jesus cry.

[Kosher Ham]

33 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

On every high school and college campus there's wide eyed and idealistic kids running around not understanding how real life works.  It's not their fault, they've mostly never had to work a job, pay rent, pay bills, be a provider and make a living.  They don't know what they don't know.  Not their fault, it's just how it works.

 

I was raised with responsibility and accountability.  

Real life is how you are raised. 

 

On the flip side of that...the Gen X and folks have raised these kids. 

[Destino]

12 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

On the flip side of that...the Gen X and folks have raised these kids. 

Gen X doesn't matter.  Boomers are the disease and Millennials are the cure.  Dangerously high levels of narcissism appears to have skipped a generation. 

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, Destino said:

Dangerously high levels of narcissism appears to have skipped a generation. 

 

No ****. 

[Kosher Ham]

2 minutes ago, Destino said:

Gen X doesn't matter.  Boomers are the disease and Millennials are the cure.  Dangerously high levels of narcissism appears to have skipped a generation. 

 

They matter. They are raising a lot of these children that we see these days. As they say...our future. 

Gen X allowed and perpetuated the downward spiral that we have been on after fighting back against the Boomers. 

I agree that many of the Boomers have created this situation and many Gen X folks have simply allowed it to happen. 

Again it was a lack of responsibility or accountability that they were taught from the Boomers which is odd considering the way most of the Boomers were raised. 

[Fresh8686]

14 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Decent article that's more about bashing the Republicans and making them the issue in this country than anything else.  Still, good points throughout.  I tell my parents how Boomers ruined it for everyone, they get all salty.  It's great.

 

 

I take a little umbrage with this.  "Excitement" is a piss poor reason for voting for someone.  It's partially how we got Trump.  Excitement = cult of personality.

 

I disagree that millennials have a different outlook.  Ultimately, people vote for their interests.  People may like to look like they're altruistic and unselfish but people vote for what's best for them.  There's no evidence that millennials care about how the country will look in 30-40 years.  There's no evidence that millennials won't vote for their own selfish, personal interests.  The notion that they're somehow enlightened and, on a dime, can change 200+ years of thinking is silly.

 

On every high school and college campus there's wide eyed and idealistic kids running around not understanding how real life works.  It's not their fault, they've mostly never had to work a job, pay rent, pay bills, be a provider and make a living.  They don't know what they don't know.  Not their fault, it's just how it works.

 

Anyway, George Carlin (even though he's over the hill here) can say it better than I can.  NSFW, language.  It was true then, it's true now.

 

He's not bashing republicans, he's bashing people who have no consideration for the long-term future of the space they share with others and who would rather exploit and parasite off of it, rather then nurture and foster it for the next generation. If Republicans fit that characterization and you feel a little discomfort of maybe catching a small reflection of yourself in that mirror, then that's your stuff to own, your pain and shame, and challenge for redemption (as it is for all of us when we are brave enough to look in the mirror and examine where we fall short).

And as an aside why do you think it's great, when your parents get all salty? That's a weird, kind of anti-social response. How is that fun or pleasurable for you?

You say people ultimately vote for their interests, but there are people who have developed to enough of a degree and succeeded enough at life, that the shared interests of the world for the long term ARE their actual interests. They restrict themselves or put more effort into things that contribute to that shared space. They've internalized what it feels like when that shared space is threatened and they've realized that everything counts to the detriment or betterment of that shared space, no matter how small or subtle.

There are people like that in real life. Not everyone gets hit by the pressures of life and becomes cynical and self-absorbed. Those cynics and so called "realists" are actually the weak ones. Brittle people who close up and run away or isolate themselves from the shared responsibility we all have for taking care of this world. Life is traumatic, it's hard and brutal, and will destroy you if you don't prepare for it over time, but that doesn't mean you get to be a hollowed out, parasite of a human being, too burnt by life to actually care. 

When you see the desert or the wasteland humanity can be, you don't just throw your hands up and say "see that's what we really are, what's the point?". No, you stick your hands in the wasteland and get to cleaning it up, so you can build something better then the **** desert that was handed to you by someone else, too weak to make it better.

I know most people can't handle that stress, but also most people don't train for it or even try.
 

[Going Commando]

It was the ****ing 80's.  Greed and selfish individualism became heroic.  "Ask not what your country can do for you" and any sort of accountability to society as a whole became totally alien.  Reagan and his little revolution ruined this country.

[Destino]

24 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

They matter. They are raising a lot of these children that we see these days. As they say...our future.

Children today are Gen Z, which sounds suspiciously like our simulated universe is setting up a zombie apocalypse plot.  They are the ones that will save us from Millennials, after Millennials save us from Boomers and live long enough to see themselves become the villains.  (and then the zombies?  Ancient astronaut theorists say yes!)

 

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Gen X allowed and perpetuated the downward spiral that we have been on after fighting back against the Boomers. 

Not our fault.  We were raised by the monsters of old, the nightmare of prophets, the grasping shadows of the abyss.... 

 

[The Sisko]

I’ve said for some time now that the BBs have destroyed things at each phase of their lives. Just look at the PT Loser and try to tell me I’m wrong. ?

 

[Kosher Ham]

Nah, the one in the back is more of a gas guzzler. Probably about the same interior room also. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

18 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

He's not bashing republicans, he's bashing people who have no consideration for the long-term future of the space they share with others and who would rather exploit and parasite off of it, rather then nurture and foster it for the next generation. If Republicans fit that characterization and you feel a little discomfort of maybe catching a small reflection of yourself in that mirror, then that's your stuff to own, your pain and shame, and challenge for redemption (as it is for all of us when we are brave enough to look in the mirror and examine where we fall short).

And as an aside why do you think it's great, when your parents get all salty? That's a weird, kind of anti-social response. How is that fun or pleasurable for you?

You say people ultimately vote for their interests, but there are people who have developed to enough of a degree and succeeded enough at life, that the shared interests of the world for the long term ARE their actual interests. They restrict themselves or put more effort into things that contribute to that shared space. They've internalized what it feels like when that shared space is threatened and they've realized that everything counts to the detriment or betterment of that shared space, no matter how small or subtle.

There are people like that in real life. Not everyone gets hit by the pressures of life and becomes cynical and self-absorbed. Those cynics and so called "realists" are actually the weak ones. Brittle people who close up and run away or isolate themselves from the shared responsibility we all have for taking care of this world. Life is traumatic, it's hard and brutal, and will destroy you if you don't prepare for it over time, but that doesn't mean you get to be a hollowed out, parasite of a human being, too burnt by life to actually care. 

When you see the desert or the wasteland humanity can be, you don't just throw your hands up and say "see that's what we really are, what's the point?". No, you stick your hands in the wasteland and get to cleaning it up, so you can build something better then the **** desert that was handed to you by someone else, too weak to make it better.

I know most people can't handle that stress, but also most people don't train for it or even try.
 

 

Ok, well...if you can't see that he's bashing republican ideologies and thoughts throughout, I'm not sure what to tell you.  Mind you, I don't particularly care that he is.

 

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pillaging the nation’s economy, repeatedly cutting their own taxes, financing two wars with deficits, ignoring climate change, presiding over the death of America’s manufacturing core, and leaving future generations to clean up the mess they created.

 

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Right. Starting with Reagan, we saw this national ethos which was basically the inverse of JFK’s “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” This gets flipped on its head in a massive push for privatized gain and socialized risk for big banks and financial institutions. This has really been the dominant boomer economic theory, and it’s poisoned what’s left of our public institutions.

 

If that doesn't scream "Republican" to you, then I don't know what does.  It certainly doesn't really describe liberal democrat.  

 

As far as parents getting salty...I'm not sure who doesn't enjoy engaging their parents in a debate and getting under their skin every once in awhile.  As someone who's pretty middle of the road and largely has a distaste for both side, I find their Fox News views to be not the best.  But they're my parents and I love them.  I enjoy giving them ****, challenging their views and seeing them get worked up.  It doesn't come from a place of being malicious, it's good natured and they know it.   If that makes me weird to you...well, I don't really care.

 

You're right, there are people like that in real life, but I don't believe them to be the majority of society, unfortunately.  I believe that most people show you who they are, day in, day out.  Look at Trump, he told us exactly who he was the entire election cycle.  

 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

People are people.  No one group of individuals is any more selfish than another.  But generations are defined by their leaders and Boomers picked terrible ****ing leaders.  The Silent Generation was culpable too BTW, they were right there with the Boomers, voting Republican.  They were a huge part of the Reagan Revolution.

 

The greatest generation gave us FDR and Truman and Eisenhower and eventually JFK.  The Silent Gen and Boomers gave us everything from Nixon to Trump.  Four of the worst presidents in American history, all Republicans, and all heavily responsible for the decline of America.

[Destino]

53 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

I’ve said for some time now that the BBs have destroyed things at each phase of their lives. Just look at the PT Loser and try to tell me I’m wrong. ?

 

Boomers didn't stop with one mechanical insult, this one communicated their hatred more clearly then ever before:

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

So I agree with the article to the extent that I believe the Baby Boomer generation has been the most destructive in recent history, possibly going back to the generation in power in Germany in the 1930s.  I also agree that none of this is the fault of Millennials.  I disagree that Millennials will be responsible for fixing everything, that will fall to many many generations, starting with Gen X.  

 

I think it is a very good thing that one of the dominant characteristics of both Gen X and Millennials is a total willingness to see what other before them have done and reject it.  

[ExoDus84]

Boomers are a generation of lazy assholes that will plop down in front of Fox News for hours and think they know everything, science and fact be damned. I've spoken at length to members of my own family are are in that boomer generation and I'm just shocked at their worldview. Stubborn opinions formed around blanket anti-intellectualism, and no will to change or try anything different. I wonder if that's just a feature of getting to that age and being completely set in your ways, or if there's something special about the boomers. Either way, its disconcerting to know that this country is being held hostage by a group of people who are greedy as ****, don't care about facts, and can't see how their actions or motives affect the country long term.

 

[PF Chang]

"Greed is good" was repackaged for a new generation as the stakeholder model, which was created in the 80s but grew in popularity later.

 

The problem is that people can't agree what constitutes a stakeholder, much less the relative value of each stakeholder. Which means we just end up back at square one - the shareholder model, in which the only point of a company is to return value to its shareholders. Which leads back to "greed is good." The mentality hasn't changed, we're just better at disguising it now. 

[Fresh8686]

9 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Ok, well...if you can't see that he's bashing republican ideologies and thoughts throughout, I'm not sure what to tell you.  Mind you, I don't particularly care that he is.

 

 

 

If that doesn't scream "Republican" to you, then I don't know what does.  It certainly doesn't really describe liberal democrat.  

 

As far as parents getting salty...I'm not sure who doesn't enjoy engaging their parents in a debate and getting under their skin every once in awhile.  As someone who's pretty middle of the road and largely has a distaste for both side, I find their Fox News views to be not the best.  But they're my parents and I love them.  I enjoy giving them ****, challenging their views and seeing them get worked up.  It doesn't come from a place of being malicious, it's good natured and they know it.   If that makes me weird to you...well, I don't really care.

 

You're right, there are people like that in real life, but I don't believe them to be the majority of society, unfortunately.  I believe that most people show you who they are, day in, day out.  Look at Trump, he told us exactly who he was the entire election cycle.  

 

 

 

 

You do care (to a degree), or else you wouldn't have brought it up and you wouldn't have chosen the word bash. Everybody can see how Republican's now a days are characterized, but this article wasn't primarily about politics, it was about culture and behavior. You decided with the words you chose what your focus was and how it was being characterized for you as a bash with all the negative connotations that come with that word. This wasn't a "**** about republicans" article, but you seemed to have made an attempt to characterize it as such.

Anyways, judging by your posts on this board that I've seen, I'd say you come across as more "side of the road" then middle of the road. Disengaged or apathetic, rather then involved and taking a balanced, moderate approach. Have you ever read Theodore Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena"? 

Personally, I don't enjoy getting underneath other people's skin or giving people ****. I challenge people so they can become more healthy, and to reject, rather then accept and normalize maladaptive behavior. I'm not a fan of trolling others or causing people pain or stress for my own enjoyment. That's primitive to me and is a sign of a weak capability in empathy. Instead I put in the effort to make sure I challenge others without going too far myself, so that I'm focused on accountability, rather then venting my anger and rejection of their perceived turpitude. Do I fail sometimes even with this effort? Of course, but a lot less then I would if I put in no effort, and a lot less after years of consistent, cumulative practice.     

And I do agree that the majority of society lacks a healthy capacity and practice of long-term caring for our shared spaces, but again that isn't something we just give up on or worse be a part of. No, we change so we have boundaries that accept those who behave in ways that make that change more prevalent and reject those behaviors that corrupt and destroy that change for the better we seek.

You say most people show who they are day in and day out, but how does that showing happen? It's shown by what we accept and allow and internalize and what we reject and resist and disbelieve. What we chase and see as attractive and what we push away and see as unhealthy. Those actions tell the truth of who we are, no matter how much we want to dress it up or justify why we made those choices.



 

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

You do care (to a degree), or else you wouldn't have brought it up and you wouldn't have chosen the word bash. Everybody can see how Republican's now a days are characterized, but this article wasn't primarily about politics, it was about culture and behavior. You decided with the words you chose what your focus was and how it was being characterized for you as a bash with all the negative connotations that come with that word. This wasn't a "**** about republicans" article, but you seemed to have made an attempt to characterize it as such.

Anyways, judging by your posts on this board that I've seen, I'd say you come across as more "side of the road" then middle of the road. Disengaged or apathetic, rather then involved and taking a balanced, moderate approach. Have you ever read Theodore Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena"? 

Personally, I don't enjoy getting underneath other people's skin or giving people ****. I challenge people so they can become more healthy, and to reject, rather then accept and normalize maladaptive behavior. I'm not a fan of trolling others or causing people pain or stress for my own enjoyment. That's primitive to me and is a sign of a weak capability in empathy. Instead I put in the effort to make sure I challenge others without going too far myself, so that I'm focused on accountability, rather then venting my anger and rejection of their perceived turpitude. Do I fail sometimes even with this effort? Of course, but a lot less then I would if I put in no effort, and a lot less after years of consistent, cumulative practice.     

And I do agree that the majority of society lacks a healthy capacity and practice of long-term caring for our shared spaces, but again that isn't something we just give up on or worse be a part of. No, we change so we have boundaries that accept those who behave in ways that make that change more prevalent and reject those behaviors that corrupt and destroy that change for the better we seek.

You say most people show who they are day in and day out, but how does that showing happen? It's shown by what we accept and allow and internalize and what we reject and resist and disbelieve. What we chase and see as attractive and what we push away and see as unhealthy. Those actions tell the truth of who we are, no matter how much we want to dress it up or justify why we made those choices.



 

 

Ok, do you want to actually discuss the contents of the article and what its about or my chosen words and how I perceived it?  How was it NOT about politics?  Do culture and behavior not tie into politics?  Did you read it, was there anything bashing criticizing liberals?  

 

As for the rest of the post, you sound like a really upstanding citizen.  I aspire to be just like you.  After all, you seem to know what's just best for everyone.