Fixing the The United States Democratic Party

[Kilmer17]

Just now, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

There are more museum employees than coal miners in the US now. I think we need to stop acting like they are anything beyond the super vast minority with their museum in Kentucky running on SOLAR POWER. It's like the NRA thing. 5M paying members? Amazon Prime has 20 times that number.

 

Blows me away why this is so hard to put into a simple message. Here is a picture of dirty gross water, ground, air.....etc. Do you want this for yourself? For your kids? For your Grandkids? If you do, then vote for those guys. If you don't.....then don't vote for those guys. 

It's difficult because nobody on either side wants dirty gross water.  And nobody on either side is proposing to keep dirty gross water. 

 

The coal miner example was just that, an example.  Here's a better one- Everyone wants wind power.  Except the people that live on the coast or prairie where the windmills would be placed.

[Fresh8686]

9 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

It's difficult because nobody on either side wants dirty gross water.  And nobody on either side is proposing to keep dirty gross water. 

 

Are you sure about that? This administration did repeal the clean water act, in order to come up with a more “business friendly” version later.

 

i think it’s more accurate to say no one wants dirty water for themselves. But there are some who could care less if it effects others, especially if it means more money in their pocket. Which is a horrible kind of society to be creating, where such things are acceptable. 

[@DCGoldPants]

10 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

It's difficult because nobody on either side wants dirty gross water.  And nobody on either side is proposing to keep dirty gross water. 

 

The coal miner example was just that, an example.  Here's a better one- Everyone wants wind power.  Except the people that live on the coast or prairie where the windmills would be placed.

 

With the coal miners, they are being promised more and new jobs that simply aren't needed. It's all automated.

 

Your wind power one is evolving. Now they can place those turbines way off the cost. The ones along the PA Turnpike are kind of cool. But you're seeing new tech that can be like a waterwheel where the current creates power. What's stopping that? Lobbying from the fossil fuel folks who want to save their industry. That's bigger than anything else opposing something like that.

 

Not even sure how we got on this topic in this thread.

[mcsluggo]

2 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

That's a tough sell.  Not that it's wrong, but it's like explaining to coal miners in KY that it's actually better for them to not be coal miners.  Sure it's easy to understand that from afar, but not if it's your life.

 

And I think that's a big problem the Dems face.  Selling their longterm visions in a mefirstandnow society. 

 

see now.. THIS is amazing to me.   For many years it was the liberals that were the "here and now" populist party:  how can we re-carve things to get you constituents more of the economic pie, NOW.   

 

The conservative position USED to govern/campaign along the lines of:  "yes, but we have to be able to pay for it" (balance the budget) and, "lets focus on pro-growth policies that will make the pie bigger for EVERYONE in the future" (long-term visions, advocating for a grown-up society of people in their big-girl pants.)

 

the republicans of today still give lip-service (very occasionally) to those economic conservative ideas --- but they SURE AS HELL do not actually legislate/advocate/vote that way.

 

the republican party has become the populist (give the crying babies a lolipop every election, and shut them up), and the democratic party is the only one that legislates as if they are trying to wear their "big-girl-pants"  (at the very least, relatively speaking to the current GOP)

 

 

it is a shocking change of roles.... and i really really really miss "my father's republican party"    

[mcsluggo]

 

The current GOP... in an ad campaign  

 

 

 

 

 

yes...keep that piece of ****. ...... and ........ give me my father's Oldsmobile !   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[twa]

1 hour ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

With the coal miners, they are being promised more and new jobs that simply aren't needed. It's all automated.

 

Your wind power one is evolving. Now they can place those turbines way off the cost. The ones along the PA Turnpike are kind of cool. But you're seeing new tech that can be like a waterwheel where the current creates power. What's stopping that? Lobbying from the fossil fuel folks who want to save their industry. That's bigger than anything else opposing something like that.

 

Not even sure how we got on this topic in this thread.

 

The under water ones have maintenance issues well beyond the windpower ones.

Lobbying ain't the problem, cost is.

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[@DCGoldPants]

All fine ideas.

 

Being presented by Nancy and Chuck with Bernie off somewhere shrieking? It won't work.

 

You want to launch a platform like this. The faces need to be new to the American people. That doesn't mean "young" per se. But diverse with people who can speak plainly and come across as sincere. Not a job for career politicians. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

It was brought up in another thread and I don't think it is worth a new thread so I'm sticking it here.

 

Going forward should the Left become more left, stay where they are, or go further to the center?

 

What will motivate the most voters to go vote?  What is best to win an election?  What is best for the country long term?

 

I made an argument for the Left to go more center and listed some things I would like to see knowing I wouldn't get all, or even most, of them.  But is it better strategically/for America long term to go more center to get people like me, go more left to motivate the Sander's people, or stay where they are and trust that with another candidate, America will have realized their **** up and not let Trump win again?

 

I'm interested to see updated opinions.

[LadySkinsFan]

The party needs to be center left. Some of the Sanders planks are okay and some are unachievable and need to go.

 

The platform of 2016 is pretty good with some good programs that got lost in trying to fact check Trump the the Republicans. 

 

There's lots to talk about, ACA, job creation, programs for job retraining, straight talk about what industries are declining, children's health, and so on. 

 

And support the actual nominated candidates regardless of whether they are centrists or more left, trust that the successful nominees know their constituents and what appeals to them. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

44 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

The party needs to be center left.

That seems to be one of those things that is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Comparing it to their 2016 platform, would you say it needs to me more left, same, or closer to "center"?

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

That seems to be one of those things that is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Comparing it to their 2016 platform, would you say it needs to me more left, same, or closer to "center"?

More left, but not too much.  Ideally, a centrist top of the ticket, progressive VP who is young enough to be able to run after 8 years are over.  This will be a different country in 2036, there's already just as many millennials eligible to vote as baby bombers.

[@DCGoldPants]

2 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

It was brought up in another thread and I don't think it is worth a new thread so I'm sticking it here.

 

Going forward should the Left become more left, stay where they are, or go further to the center?

 

 

 

 

Right now I think the left should stake out the center. There are so many common sense issues out there that they can focus on. I'm saying this as a Social Progressive and Fiscal Moderate.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Thanks.

 

Funny there are two responses and they say to go in different directions.

[@DCGoldPants]

29 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Thanks.

 

Funny there are two responses and they say to go in different directions.

 

unsurprising too.

[LadySkinsFan]

Like I wrote in my above post, second sentence, take out the Sanders planks that are unachievable, so go a bit center. 

 

I liked the platform, the message got lost in the fray. Democrats need to stay out of the swamp, stick to programs that will help people, be realistic about industries that aren't coming back, new industries and training programs for those industries like solar.

 

Policies that aren't working like crops rotting in fields is why food costs are going up, health insurance policies proposed by Trump that don't really cover anything, increased premiums for ACA, cutting the CHIPs programs that leave children uncovered, less healthy population means increased costs down the road. 

 

There's more, the message needs to be tailored for each district because they know best what their constituents want/need.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Thanks.

 

Funny there are two responses and they say to go in different directions.

As a millennial, I know its not my turn yet, but its about to be (and I want people to act like it, not ignore it).

[No Excuses]

The most popular issues with bipartisan support in this country right now are Medicaid Expansion and marijuana legalization. 

 

Frankly, I don’t particularly care for any other issues if we’re talking 2020. There needs to be a broad restructuring of the telecom and healthcare/pharma industry, massive investments in our healthcare and education. system and full on legalization of marijuana.

 

This country is badly in need of the 21st century version of Teddy Roosevelt.

[@DCGoldPants]

21 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Like I wrote in my above post, second sentence, take out the Sanders planks that are unachievable, so go a bit center. 

 

I liked the platform, the message got lost in the fray. Democrats need to stay out of the swamp, stick to programs that will help people, be realistic about industries that aren't coming back, new industries and training programs for those industries like solar.

 

Policies that aren't working like crops rotting in fields is why food costs are going up, health insurance policies proposed by Trump that don't really cover anything, increased premiums for ACA, cutting the CHIPs programs that leave children uncovered, less healthy population means increased costs down the road. 

 

There's more, the message needs to be tailored for each district because they know best what their constituents want/need.

 

I'm so tired of Bernie Sanders. SO tired of Pelosi and Schumer. Hoyer, Lewis, Waters, Clyburn. I play trivia with a team that ranges from their 20's to folks in their 70's. I argued with woman on my team about Pelosi and why I think she is a mixed bag of good fund-raiser and great head counting with a super easy target for opponents across the country. She just wouldn't hear it. To her Pelosi is everything right with the Dems. To me it shows how she doesn't see the big picture.

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

20 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

This country is badly in need of the 21st century version of Teddy Roosevelt.

Once again, you guys are describing me to a tee.

[TradeTheBeal!]

6 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Once again, you guys are describing me to a tee.

 

#bigstick

[No Excuses]

6 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Once again, you guys are describing me to a tee.

 

You have my vote <3

[Larry]

37 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

The most popular issues with bipartisan support in this country right now are Medicaid Expansion and marijuana legalization. 

 

I've read that 90% of Republicans (and 80% of NRA members) support closing the "gun show loophole".  

 

I suspect that a big chunk of the country would support giving the Dreamers legal status, and a path to citizenship.  (But I haven't seen hard numbers.  And assume that the numbers would change, if anybody were to come out with a plan that actually had details.)  

[Mr. Sinister]

47 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

#bigstick

 

And walks s-, nevermind 

[No Excuses]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

I've read that 90% of Republicans (and 80% of NRA members) support closing the "gun show loophole".  

 

I suspect that a big chunk of the country would support giving the Dreamers legal status, and a path to citizenship.  (But I haven't seen hard numbers.  And assume that the numbers would change, if anybody were to come out with a plan that actually had details.)  

 

At least with Medicaid Expansion and weed legalization, we’ve seen real action from GOP legislators at the state and federal level. I think it’s one of the few areas where policy has broken through political gridlock. 

 

It is relatively absent on control and immigration, despite polling suggesting bipartisan support.