The Rookie Crush and Underdog thread

[Burgold]

Thanks to Hap, Submitted, and others who have contributed to the Twitter thread. Reading that has been a lot of fun. I enjoy reading about the camps, but not just for the title bouts or how the elite guys are shaping up. I love the Cinderella stories, the underdog who has no shot to make the team, but somehow does and even contributes. You know, like Robert Kelley. The guy was brought in last year as a fullback. We don't even use fullbacks and did so well he not only stuck but became a starter. Even lesser success stories like Maurice Harris who somehow stuck and then proved himself with the gluiest of hands.

 

So, the question of this thread is who is in the running for draft crush this year? Who is impressing you or who do you have hopes for? You're welcome to crush on Anderson, Allen or Perine in here, but I also want to give a little love to guys like Pasqual, Robert Davis, Levern Jacobs, CB Joshua Holsey and LB Josh Harvey-Clemons who, according to tweets and write-ups, have impressed during #Redskins rookie camp. Who are you rooting for? Who do you have your eyes on? Who is making that unlikely climb to where they have a chance to make the roster.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Ondre Pipkins for me, for his backstory if nothing else.

 

 

[Gregpeck99]

Keeping an eye on Pascal, Jacobs, Quick, Fafaul and Snyder.

 

[Riggo'sRangers]

Got my eye on Hosley....Pipkins too.  

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

Ondre Pipkins for me, for his backstory if nothing else.

 

 

The stuff about Pipkins caught my eye too. How I'd love if we could develop a few unheralded Dlineman for depth or the rotation.

[Morneblade]

33 minutes ago, Burgold said:

The stuff about Pipkins caught my eye too. How I'd love if we could develop a few unheralded Dlineman for depth or the rotation.

 

We need him to compete for the starting NT spot. Heard he was doing well this weekend.

[Morneblade]

From the drafted guys likely to make the team, I like Anderson, Perine, and Sprinkle. I think all 3 are a little underrated.

 

Fridge guys I like are Fish Smithson, Robert Davis, and Zach Pascal.

[RabidFan]

Montae, Chase, and Nico

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Brandon Banks.  As a UNC Charlotte alumni, gotta root for my boy. 

[skinny21]

In terms of what I saw on tape, the guy I'm really hoping can shine is Joshua Harvey-Clemons.  

 

Clemons I don't see as a playmaker anytime soon (though he has the tools to become one as he develops), but I think he can be a very solid dime backer.  Takes up a lot of space with his size-wingspan and so can limit throwing lanes.  He's also a heck of a wrap up tackler - one our biggest flaws recently.  With his experience at corner/safety, I think he can likely cover most backs/TEs out of the backfield.  If he can develop his pass rush (again, his size can be a big plus here), he can be a great, well-rounded addition that can be used in multiple ways.  If he works out, I think that bodes well for improving our 3rd down/red zone D.  

 

 Love Allen, Anderson and Perine.  Can't wait to see what they bring to the team.  Love the potential of Sprinkle and Moreau, but I'm in a wait and see mode.  I'd rather be pleasantly surprised if/when they earn PT and produce.  

 

Other guys that I'm really rooting for, though it has less to do with them personally and more to do with the roster:  Roullier, Davis, Holsey, and Smithson.  

 

Roullier, if he can earn a backup job as a swing C/G, gives us more flexibility on the oline.  That also gives us the option to carry just 8 oline and so free up a spot for another position - which is great considering I think we're going to have some really tough roster decisions at the end of summer.

 

Davis, though a long shot to do so, could really help with our WR situation in 20-8 and beyond.  If he and Doctson perform, we won't feel Pryor's loss so keenly next year, and/or we won't feel so pressured to retain Pryor.  

 

Holsey looks like he might be great competition for Fuller.  Been banging the drum for a slot receiver for a few years now. 

 

Smithson - we haven't had a real FS in ages.  Who knows how things go with Swearinger (this year, and into the future), but Smithson showing enough to make the team could mean we have a future starter at the position.   Answering our FS issue would be big relief.  

 

[Gregpeck99]

This has the makings of a great thread ... keep it going!

[HTTRDynasty]

The guy we most need to be a success story is Pipkins, but I'm most excited to see what Holsey can do this offseason.  Though I am forcing myself not to get hyped up by OTA/training camp success stories after how much hype Breeland was getting all last offseason.  

[tibbidoe]

Draft:

Sprinkle - TE

Roullier - C

 

UDFA:

Banks - DE

Pascal - WR

Pipkins - DT

 

Rookie Camp:

Cass Weitl - DE

Se'Von Pittman - DE

Nico Marley - OLB/SS

 

Also, any of the OGs (Kyle Kalis, Tyler Catalina or Mario Yakoo).

[Koolblue13]

Holsey and pipkins would really help a lot.

 

Davis and Sprinkle on offense.

[TSO]

I'm intrigued by Montae Nicholson just because he was the most controversial pick here. I always like to see those guys prove everyone wrong, bit of an underdog thing. 

 

When you watch some of Nico Marley's highlights you can't help but root for him. Not only an underdog considering his status as an UDFA, but very undersized, too. But, man, he's fearless. 

 

But in terms of who I think has a legit chance to surprise?

 

Usually I lock into one mid-to-late round pick as my "favorite sleeper" pretty close to immediately after the draft. Mostly hit and miss, but recently I've actually been pretty decent at spotting a good one. For instance, I loved Chris Thompson's tape the most after the 2013 draft. I loved Breeland's tape the most after the 2014 draft. 2015 was more of a miss, because I loved Tevin Mitchell's tape the most after watching him immediately following the draft. Finally, I didn't really fall in love with any of the late picks in the 2016 draft, I was more excited about picking up future picks... so I'll count that as a hit so far.  

 

This time? 

 

Man, I don't know where to start. I love the tape that I've seen from almost every one of them. I don't even count Perine as a sleeper since everyone is loving him already. 

 

I want to go through the actual games, start to finish, for Nicholson before I really have an opinion on him. I haven't seen much of Holsey or Harvey-Clemons yet, either, and need to get to them still. But the little I've seen in terms of highlights has been promising and hearing some beat reporters say they stood out at the minicamp adds to that. And from what I've seen of Sprinkle, Davis and Roullier thus far I'm really loving all three. 

 

Basically, it's harder for me to get fixed on one guy as my favorite sleeper this time around whereas I usually do pretty quickly. And it's not like after 2016 where it was because I just didn't fall in love with any of the tape, it's the opposite. I think that's a great sign.  

[LexLukas]

Holsey, Fish Smithson

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

I'm intrigued by Montae Nicholson just because he was the most controversial pick here. I always like to see those guys prove everyone wrong, bit of an underdog thing. 

 

Basically, it's harder for me to get fixed on one guy as my favorite sleeper this time around whereas I usually do pretty quickly. And it's not like after 2016 where it was because I just didn't fall in love with any of the tape, it's the opposite. I think that's a great sign.  

 

Be nice for Nicholson to work out.   For me, he's plagued though by the Cooley curse.   Cooley has gotten things wrong but he's almost perfect when it comes to nailing guys who he thinks will fail.     Cooley didn't flat out say Nicholson will fail but listening to all of his film reviews he was toughest I think on Nicholson -- he said he comes off like he has bad instincts and bad field vision and will be big time exposed if they play him this season -- he thinks he's a special teamer.  I hope he's wrong.  And I have to get around to watching Nicholson personally.  I've watched most of these prospects but not him. 

 

Holsey to me has some of that Jarrett feel from two season ago.  He comes off like a gamer.  I have a good feeling about him.   I've watched Sprinkle some and besides being a rare blocking TE, the dude makes some acrobatic catches. He has long arms.  He's athletic. Red Zone target.  It wouldn't shock me that over the course of the season he overtakes Vernon Davis.  Davis IMO is overrated as a blocker.  Davis catches the ball and provides some blocking help but IMO he isn't an impact blocker.  Sprinkle could do it all. 

 

 

 

[wysknz1]

Of course I'm on board with Chase. Being from Wyoming it's fantastic he has a chance to be on the team for a few years. Always pull for a Wyoming Cowboy, unless  they become a d*ll*s c*wb*y.

[CommDownMan]

While there are D players overall that I hope mesh and bring that unit up, Perine is definitely the guy I am most excited for so far. I really want to see him abuse the East (and others).

[TSO]

19 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Be nice for Nicholson to work out.   For me, he's plagued though by the Cooley curse.   Cooley has gotten things wrong but he's almost perfect when it comes to nailing guys who he thinks will fail.     Cooley didn't flat out say Nicholson will fail but listening to all of his film reviews he was toughest I think on Nicholson -- he said he comes off like he has bad instincts and bad field vision and will be big time exposed if they play him this season -- he thinks he's a special teamer.  I hope he's wrong.  And I have to get around to watching Nicholson personally.  I've watched most of these prospects but not him. 

 

It's like I said in the draft thread... I'm not impressed when someone is right about a mid to late round guy not panning out. You can essentially trash every one of those picks and end up right the vast majority of the time simply based off the percentages. 

 

Furthermore, the easiest thing to do is criticize, and that goes for any player or draft pick in general. Cooley should know that well, as he was far from some highly graded TE coming out of college and had no shortage of criticisms about his game. 

 

What's infinitely harder to do is project a player's skill set, ability, and personality/character properly in how it'll all apply successfully on the field.  

 

Also, one of the criticisms I have for Cooley's film reviews of these guys is he admittedly doesn't watch more than two or three games. Suffice to say, that's not good enough, especially for guys who may have had more up and down careers or operated within a scheme that wasn't necessarily successful in and of itself. 

 

Hence, why I take what he says with a major grain of salt and why I said I'm extremely intrigued by Nicholson and would like to study all his games from start to finish. I really won't form an opinion because the kid is overly critiqued by a significant amount of people since that has a way of snowballing when an image gets created about a guy. 

 

I want to see, for myself, what it is exactly the scouts saw that placed him higher on their board than what was the consensus thinking among most draft analysts/experts. I might come to the same exact conclusions, but it won't be because Cooley or anyone else told me to. 

 

Oh, and that won't stop me from rooting for a guy like that just because I always like the underdog few believe in to succeed.  

 

"Rooting for" does not equate to a failure in recognizing issues/flaws. There are many on this board who struggle majorly with understanding that.   

[TheGreek1973]

Roullier and Allen for me.  Allen should pen out but if he is a perennial probowl player we hit the lotto.  Roullier would be awesome to be good enough to backup the Guard and C spot for a couple of years and then be ready to start and play well.  Our line will be set for at least 2020.

[Riggo-toni]

Not a rookie anymore, but I'm pulling for UDFA Lanier to win the starting job and get 8 or 9 sacks.

[Riggo'sRangers]

17 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Also, one of the criticisms I have for Cooley's film reviews of these guys is he admittedly doesn't watch more than two or three games. Suffice to say, that's not good enough, especially for guys who may have had more up and down careers or operated within a scheme that wasn't necessarily successful in and of itself. 

 

Hence, why I take what he says with a major grain of salt and why I said I'm extremely intrigued by Nicholson and would like to study all his games from

stsrt to finish. I really won't form an opinion because the kid is overly critiqued by a significant amount of people since that has a way of snowballing when an image gets created about a guy. 

 

Evidence of exactly this is in SpartanRedskin's one and only post on our board in "Welcome to the Redskins Montae Nicholson".  It gives a little bit of a background on Montae's perception of being "soft".  It come from a diehard fan who has seen ever game he has played in.  It's worth going back to read to see what he said. Scheme and talent may have played a large role in the way he is viewed. We shall see on the field; hope springs eternal!  I am certainly not writing him off.  Hail

[CTskin]

Aside from Allen, just about every other pick has a decent argument for/against their NFL potential.

I'm very confident in Morneau and Perine, so I guess Anderson is the one I'm most intrigued by.

 

Leader, heart of a lion, high motor, poor athleticism. You can be pretty studly at the collegiate level with those traits, but it doesn't always translate at the next level. I don't know if he has the ability to be a sack machine, but if he can set the edge like he did at Bama, I'll welcome that gladly. I'm not giving up on Trent and Preston yet, but mannnn I'd like one of these 2nd round DE/OLB draft picks to be a home run. 3rd time's a charm with Anderson?

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

It's like I said in the draft thread... I'm not impressed when someone is right about a mid to late round guy not panning out. You can essentially trash every one of those picks and end up right the vast majority of the time simply based off the percentages. 

 

Furthermore, the easiest thing to do is criticize, and that goes for any player or draft pick in general. Cooley should know that well, as he was far from some highly graded TE coming out of college and had no shortage of criticisms about his game. 

 

What's infinitely harder to do is project a player's skill set, ability, and personality/character properly in how it'll all apply successfully on the field.  

 

Also, one of the criticisms I have for Cooley's film reviews of these guys is he admittedly doesn't watch more than two or three games. Suffice to say, that's not good enough, especially for guys who may have had more up and down careers or operated within a scheme that wasn't necessarily successful in and of itself. 

 

 

I follow the point.  But as to Cooley he's just giving his take based on film review.  I just happened to notice that the guys he's especially toughest on -- he tends to be right about.  He killed Reyes after they signed him.   He killed Bruton after watching him in camp some.  He was tough on Fuller -- that one remains to be seen.  He was easier on for example Sprinkle a 5th rounder than he was on Nicholson.   He didn't kill Nicholson but he summed him up as a special teamer and not ready to start in the NFL. 

 

It could be though Cooley is a tough sell.  Sheehan likes joking with Cooley about how he's dampened his enthusiasm about the draft because of his tough film reviews.  He's not in love with any guy they picked aside from Allen.   Anderson would be the next closest to him loving but he's closer to "like" when it comes to him.  Among the draft and FA pick ups, Cooley loves Allen, DJ Swearinger, Pryor and Zach Brown.   

 

Cooley could be dead wrong and sometimes he is.  I've just had a hard time remembering what players he was especially tough on where he ended up wrong.  But I'll get around to watching some Nicholson myself soon.   And I agree you are much more likely to be right by having issues with later round picks than early ones -- not to mention if Nicholson as a mid 4th rounder is a successful special teams stand out and just a backup safety -- that's a successful pick statistically speaking.