twa Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: I think it's incredibly naive for people to think that Russia never influenced our politics before the last election. Well we are talking Liberals, so incredibly might be a stretch. especially since they have requested Russian influence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I haven't seen many people outright claim they believe Trump worked with the Russians to win the election. I don't think people want to claim that. They'd rather imply impropriety without having to be called out for looney accusations. The same and people had no issue with the Clintons making money giving speeches in Russia. Its all bull****. Trumps a moron. Or he's the greatest evil genius of all time. He can't be both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I think it's incredibly naive for people to think that GOsheeP are going to stop bringing up the Clintons every five minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: I think it's incredibly naive for people to think that GOsheeP are going to stop bringing up the Clintons every five minutes. False equivalency!!! Dont look at the left hypocrisy. It's bad for their feigned outrage Edited March 5, 2017 by Kilmer17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: I haven't seen many people outright claim they believe Trump worked with the Russians to win the election. I don't think people want to claim that. They'd rather imply impropriety without having to be called out for looney accusations. The same and people had no issue with the Clintons making money giving speeches in Russia. Its all bull****. Trumps a moron. Or he's the greatest evil genius of all time. He can't be both. When your campaign manager, fired national security advisor, son in law/advisor and AG keep having meetings with Putin's gov't that they keep conveniently forgetting, it raises questions. The Russia issue has been talked about since late May regarding Trump. None of this new. They own his ass because they helped bail him out in the mid 90s. Its time for Comrade Trump to pay up to Putin We do know, and Roger Stone has admitted it, that he had direct communications with Wikileaks, which is getting its stuff from Putin's gov't. Edited March 5, 2017 by SkinsHokieFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 26 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: The same and people had no issue with the Clintons making money giving speeches in Russia. Its all bull****. Trumps a moron. Or he's the greatest evil genius of all time. He can't be both. Now for all that I think a lot of your posting lately has been more, um, "shaky" in argument, and trollish (you have one goper and two libs running ahead of you on my scorecard) than optimum, even for you uber-partisan types, I can go with you on that hypocrisy with many of the dems i know. personally, i have some issue with how much money people can make off their service when it's in the hundreds of millions, and that's without assuming they "sold" actual outcomes that would rightfully be a conflict of interest issue. But that's on the table too for sure, and some links look plausible enough to me, if not truly proven. Now there are some meaningful distinctions worth making imo between the two cases. I won't do that here now, but the short version is "they were bad, trump is much worse" (and that kinda runs as a theme with the other major criticisms of hillpill too on my end). on the 3rd point, he can be a "mroon" in nay number of ways, and shrewd/intelligent in others, and a swine in many ways, and crooked and shady and still not be a genius because he's not...since you asked... 13 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: False equivalency!!! kilmer i swear to pete the ex-mod that if you do that again i'll ban you myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 12 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: I haven't seen many people outright claim they believe Trump worked with the Russians to win the election. I don't think people want to claim that. They'd rather imply impropriety without having to be called out for looney accusations. Most. People. Aren't. Saying. That. Because. That's. Not. The. Allegation. We've been over this. The allegation is not that Trump and the Russians colluded to rig the election.* The allegation is that Trump is in debt up to his eyeballs to Russian oligarchs backed by Putin and as such he basically will do what they ask of him so that his business empire doesn't get toppled by Putin ordering his people to divest from Trump. Putin is attempting to dictate US policy through a blackmailed Trump, which requires lots of back-channels and shady contacts via surrogates with Russians. Either you've totally failed to keep up in this matter and are stuck on "fringe left allegations from November 9" or you're purposefully still trying to get people to allege rigging so you can say that alleging rigging is ridiculous as a deflection from the actual allegations. *The Russians certainly pushed pro-Trump propaganda, but propaganda is only as effective on elections as the people allow it to be. It was very effective in this case, but that doesn't quite hit "rigging." 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 To expand on above, Roger Stone is having a very frustrating day. I'm spoilering it because of language. He was not happy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Jesus Christ that guy is even more off the rails than Trump. Is there anything within his reach that isn't goddamn insanity personified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 4 hours ago, Jumbo said: Clapper was solid on MTP--figures he's going to have to testify. Clearly repeated that when they presented their IC report the agreed-to position was that we had proof of russian hacks intended to influence the election, and that they did (whether from the get-go or later on) intend to do so in favor of don (obviously de rigueur to be hotly contested by many on the right) but that at that time at least there was no hard evidence of collusion between any senior trump campaign official and suspected agents/hackers. To me, given that was my same understanding back then, it has always made all this "forgetfulness" and stonewalling, smoke screening, obfuscating, or plain lying among so many trump people even more unnecessary/goofy (or guilty looking). And that stuff still continues with a hell of a lot of serious energy from the admin. The ginormous hypocrisy on the part of many "investigate all things clinton ad absurdum" right siders who are already wanting this all shut down as "no there there" aside, I think we're going to be legitimately looking into this for months even though there is no smoking gun yet. That's pretty much where I am (and have been). Has the Russian government used it's power for the specific, deliberate, purpose of affecting our Presidential election, either to benefit Trump or to harm Hillary. That was obvious 6-9 months ago. Did the Trump campaign (and, later, the Trump Administration) take deliberate, active, intentional steps, to benefit the political and economic position of Russia? This, also, has been undeniable. (Although lately, Republican America seems to have their own definition of things like "undeniable". And "facts".) Have there been actual meetings, between Trump and Putin personally, or between representatives of the two, in which quid pro quo deals were specifically negotiated? I've seen no evidence. And no specific allegations, either. And I'd be surprised if there were. If it were a real politician, say Ted Cruz, I'd say no, I doubt it happened. But given the amateur hour level of political competence demonstrated by this Administration, the odds I'd be willing to give against it are lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Kilmer17 said: I haven't seen many people outright claim they believe Trump worked with the Russians to win the election. I don't think people want to claim that. They'd rather imply impropriety without having to be called out for looney accusations. The same and people had no issue with the Clintons making money giving speeches in Russia. Its all bull****. Trumps a moron. Or he's the greatest evil genius of all time. He can't be both. He could be an idiot who thinks he can profit by cozying up to the Russians. He could be an idiot who admires Putin's style of governing. These things would make him susceptible to making mistakes, like changing the Republican platform with regards to the Ukraine, or having a bunch of Russophiles surrounding him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 This week's Deep State moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Jumbo said: and trollish (you have one goper and two libs running ahead of you on my scorecard) I'm more anti-GOP than lib. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Kilmer17 said: 1) I haven't seen many people outright claim they believe Trump worked with the Russians to win the election. I don't think people want to claim that. They'd rather imply impropriety without having to be called out for looney accusations. 2) The same and people had no issue with the Clintons making money giving speeches in Russia. 3) Its all bull****. 4) Trumps a moron. Or he's the greatest evil genius of all time. He can't be both. 1) Claiming impropriety isn't looney. It's nearly a certainty. 2) That has anything to do with the Trump - Russia conversation? 3) How does it feel? 4) He's a moron and he's morally bankrupt. No genius involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Kilmer17 said: I haven't seen many people outright claim they believe Trump worked with the Russians to win the election. I don't think people want to claim that. They'd rather imply impropriety without having to be called out for looney accusations. The same and people had no issue with the Clintons making money giving speeches in Russia. Its all bull****. Trumps a moron. Or he's the greatest evil genius of all time. He can't be both. To add to my previous response, IF Trump did collude with the Russians he is simply an idiot, because they were on to him before the election even occurred, because Flynn made calls to people he should have known were under surveilance, etc. Not sure where the genius part comes in. Now the Clintons getting away with all those murders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 So I'm guessing the whole wire tapping thing will have to cook awhile before people see the ramifications in this? It's either/or, Obama tapped Trump OR Trump lied out his ass and dragged the FBI and DOJ in with him. Going to have a hard time wiggling out of this one, I seriously doubt it will just be ignored like the 3-5 million illegal voters! thing. Comey is squealing like a pig, he knows. The So-Called just stepped knee deep in a steaming pile. God bless America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 WaPo and others need to be vigilant. This wiretapping claim is story du jour but let's not lose sight of anything we should actually be pursuing, more relevant stories we should be digging out. cant just go to where the story seems to be with this admin-gotta go find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 It's clearly retaliation from CNN, you know who did the wire tapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 1 hour ago, FanboyOf91 said: This week's Deep State moment. So is deep state playing politics or simply leaking classified info? Assuming it is not the Russians feeding him or his own delusions. Ahem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 57 minutes ago, twa said: So is deep state playing politics or simply leaking classified info? Defending and upholding the Constitution. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, twa said: So is deep state playing politics or simply leaking classified info? Is it the leaks are fake but the news is real or the leaks are news but the real is fake? I can't keep track. Anyway, it's probably the latter option. Edited March 6, 2017 by Sacks 'n' Stuff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 31 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said: Defending and upholding the Constitution. if it was that why not some meat rather than smoke? Sounds more like a Trump tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 19 minutes ago, twa said: if it was that why not some meat rather than smoke? Sounds more like a Trump tweet. Investigations take time. If/when something drops officially, it will be thorough, not tidbits. Same thing with Clinton emails, when Comey finally commented officially last year, it was based on the investigation being basically done. Not to mention, since this is coming from a foreign government handing things over to the US, leaks could come from anywhere along that line, may not be IC dropping tidbits, but foreign IC that's handing it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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