USA Today.com: QB tutor: RG3 looks '100 percent healthy'

[Skinsinparadise]

Yeah, I do remember though that Jaws was getting trashed more because of his prediction that we wouldn't make the playoffs than about Robert's footwork, lol.  

 

I think most were just annoyed at how he seemed to constantly put the Skins down every chance he got in July and August last year. It did come off as sensationalist and just one more way for ESPN to drive ratings and create stories. Of course, it all panned out as he said it would, so now it looks like he knows what he's talking about, lol. I know I'm glad I didn't go off on him when those stories came out.

 

I recall it being being more intense than that.  With all the hoopla of RG3 being on course to be ready for the season, Jaws was the guy that really questioned it all in a hardcore way.   He was very blunt in him not looking right in warm ups.   Here's Jaws commenting after game #1, too. 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/14/rg3s-mechanics-a-cause-for-concern/

 

When Washington quarterback Robert Griffin III stepped on the field for the first time since blowing out his knee in January, he looked like a guy whose recovery is still a work in progress, rather than a player who is all the way back.

That’s the word from former NFL quarterback Ron Jaworski, who said on ESPN’s NFL Matchup that Griffin isn’t throwing the ball well because he’s still favoring his injured knee.

“His mechanics are flawed right now because of the injury,” Jaworski said.

As Jaworski showed a Griffin interception, he talked about how Griffin’s footwork was all wrong.

“He never gets his weight on the back foot. As this ball comes out, it’s going to lack energy,” Jaworski said. “His front foot, which is where your weight should transfer to, actually pulls back. So you’re losing the body momentum, the ability to drive the ball with the hip snap, to get the ball to the outside.”

Jaworski said that Griffin will pass the ball better when his knee starts to feel better, but right now it’s a major issue.

“He had a very serious injury,” Jaworski said. “He is protecting that right leg. I get it, I understand it. But you’ve got to be able to make these throws. And I’m sure in three or four weeks, he will be making these throws. But right now, his mechanics, in throwing the football, those deep throws down the field where mechanics are critical, he is struggling.”

According to ESPN, Griffin had 11 off-target passes against the Eagles, more than he had in any game in his rookie season. Griffin may have been medically cleared to play, but he still needs time to shake off the rust.

[RandyHolt]

The BIGGEST thing I want to see from Robert this year, outside of his mechanics/footwork improving to where they were in 2012 or better, is his ability to scramble properly BEHIND THE LOS and make plays.

 

...

Good post. 

 

I have long wondered if coaches actually practice "broken plays".  

 

And yes, more than telling the WRs to "come back to the ball"

 

I don't think they do. So many great plays we have seen over the years across the league were not designed plays. And it starts with guys with wheels.  So many times last year when the OL failed, Robert struggled. There was no plan for a guy coming free it seems. It was more like, we need to practice better so that doesnt happen again. versus having a plan knowing it will happen since defenders get paid, too. 

[Skinsinparadise]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/robert-griffin-iii-looked-shaky-to-analysts-but-silver-lining-is-that-he-played-through-it/2013/09/10/3d79bad6-1a63-11e3-82ef-a059e54c49d0_story.html

 

 

Analysts found fault with Griffin’s footwork on his release and pointed out he was throwing off of his back foot at times and wasn’t stepping into throws and driving the ball. 

 

Former NFL quarterback Rich Gannon did attribute Griffin’s uncharacteristic play to the eight-month layoff, however. “I thought it was very noticeable,” said Gannon, the 2002 league MVP and a four-time Pro Bowl player. “The first half, he played slow. You could see it in his footwork; he was tentative. He wasn’t following through. 

http://nypost.com/2013/11/23/theisman-rg3-taking-too-many-hits-still-learning-on-job/

RG3’s accuracy (59.3 percent, down from 65.6 last year) has suffered. His interception at the end of the Eagles game came on a backpedaling throw he said was designed as a throwaway.

“Accuracy has everything to do, I think, with footwork,” Theismann said. “It has to do with the way you transfer your weight.”

http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/analyst-scheme-footwork-contribute-rg3s-year

Griffin did himself no favors by missing blitz reads and missing open receivers. However, Brown says “I don't remotely buy the notion that Griffin ‘can't read defenses’ or is merely a ‘one-read quarterback’ (whatever that's supposed to mean), as I've seen him locate secondary receivers and I know he understands defensive coverages.”

—You don’t have to have in-depth knowledge about quarterback fundamentals to see that Griffin’s footwork was off this year. “Griffin's footwork is what really got him off-kilter, though in fairness, this issue likely stemmed from his injuries and lost offseason. While much is rightfully made of a quarterback's vision, a quarterback's footwork is what tells him where his eyes should be in a well-designed passing attack.”

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

And developing/maintaining mechanics falls on the coaches, As Shea said. They Should've noticed these things and drilled him more on them in practice. Was RGIII off last year? Yes. But the coaching staff did him zero favors at all. Say what you want about the scheme but it falls in the coaches to make sure your QB is mechanically sound and comfortable running the plays you call and the coaches did not do that at all last year. Period.

 

Absolutely no argument from me.  I posted a ton of times during the end of the season that ultimately, Kyle Shanahan was the OC, and responsible for not only the play design, but the play execution. And Mike Shanahan was responsible for the entire team.

 

So the fact that Griffin was not well coached or prepared, and lacked proper fundamentals does fall on them. 

 

The flip side of the coin is that Robert was coming off of major knee reconstructive surgery for the second time, had to wear a knee brace, and I can absolutely see how those two things could affect his fundamentals.

 

I think Griffin REALLY forced Mike Shanahan's hand in when he came back.  All things being equal, and with the benefit of hindsight, the "right" thing probably would have been for Griffin to sit the first 5+ games of the season, and really get comfortable working with the knee brace, with his fundamentals, etc. But I think Robert tried SO hard to get back on the field, which I completely appreciate, that he wasn't completely done getting comfortable.  And then things just snowballed.  

 

So, I see culpability on both sides. 

 

My overall point is that of all of the things that went badly last year, I don't think play calling was in the top 5.  And while I think Kyle could have done a better job calling plays to get Griffin comfortable, I also think that when the offense is sputtering because of bad execution, it just doesn't matter what you call, it can look bad.  Could it have been better? Sure.  Was it really THAT bad all year? Not in my opinion.  (Though some games were better than others.)

 

And this is a point that Darellgreenie and I are just going to disagree on, forever.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't think they do. So many great plays we have seen over the years across the league were not designed plays. And it starts with guys with wheels.  So many times last year when the OL failed, Robert struggled. There was no plan for a guy coming free it seems. It was more like, we need to practice better so that doesnt happen again. versus having a plan knowing it will happen since defenders get paid, too. 

 

According to Chris Cooley the team didn't practice off script plays.  He talks about how in reviewing film the Redskins O line does a poor job of mirroring RG3 and basically just let the play go once things change off script.  Conversely, he says watching Seattle's film, they do practice off script plays and their O line does a good job mirroring Wilson.  

[Skinsinparadise]

My overall point is that of all of the things that went badly last year, I don't think play calling was in the top 5.  And while I think Kyle could have done a better job calling plays to get Griffin comfortable, I also think that when the offense is sputtering because of bad execution, it just doesn't matter what you call, it can look bad.  Could it have been better? Sure.  Was it really THAT bad all year? Not in my opinion.  (Though some games were better than others.)And this is a point that Darellgreenie and I are just going to disagree on, forever.  

 

Its speculation of course, impossible to know for sure.  But five people in different ways back DG's point.

 

1.  Logan Paulsen more or less said the 2013 offense was pretty much the 2012 offense.  The 2013 opponents adjusted and the Redskins didn't adjust back.

 

2.  Greg Cosell from NFL Films in his appearances on 980 said repeatedly that the Redskins are super easy to game plan for, I actually think he once said the easiest team to game plan for but don't recall that one for sure.  Cliff notes version of his critique was that the offense is so simple and predictable that it doesn't take a lot of work for defensive coordinators to prepare for.  

 

3.  Chris Cooley, who personally likes Kyle said a few things among them:  Kyle seems to just want to run through the plays he's prepared for the game regardless of the flow of what's going on.   He also talked about how predictable the play action was in 2013, and he could see it coming a mile away and he presumed the opponents could as well.     

 

4.  Doc Walker on one broadcast assessed Kyle and said bright guy and can come up with plays but he doesn't have a good feel for the game in progress -- adjustments, etc  

 

5.  At times the teams just seemed sloppy with penalties, clock management -- it seems almost that Shanny was Gibbs in reverse in that the opponents would adjust to him and figure things out more so than the other way around in the course of a game.     Chris Russell who if anything was a Shanny homer said towards the end of the season that people close to the team told him that the idea that Shanny was a detail guy who hogwash, and it was quite the opposite. 

[darrelgreenie]

Good post. 

 

I have long wondered if coaches actually practice "broken plays".  

 

And yes, more than telling the WRs to "come back to the ball"

 

I don't think they do. So many great plays we have seen over the years across the league were not designed plays. And it starts with guys with wheels.  So many times last year when the OL failed, Robert struggled. There was no plan for a guy coming free it seems. It was more like, we need to practice better so that doesnt happen again. versus having a plan knowing it will happen since defenders get paid, too.

Actually, teams DO indeed practice broken plays. Its ironic that we didn't because going back to Bill Walsh http://es.redskins.com/topic/374998-one-fans-look-to-the-futurerobert-griffin/?p=9669384

west coast offense teams have practiced broken plays. One famous broken play resulted in the 'catch'. Bill Walsh said that about 1/5 of plays end up as an off script adlib so why not practice what happens after the original design of the play.

[darrelgreenie]

...My overall point is that of all of the things that went badly last year, I don't think play calling was in the top 5.  And while I think Kyle could have done a better job calling plays to get Griffin comfortable, I also think that when the offense is sputtering because of bad execution, it just doesn't matter what you call, it can look bad.  Could it have been better? Sure.  Was it really THAT bad all year? Not in my opinion.  (Though some games were better than others.)

 

And this is a point that Darellgreenie and I are just going to disagree on, forever.  

Lol, I don't want to dredge up old stuff. Offense as a whole was far from 'thee' problem last year.

Personnel, poor defense and worse special teams followed by a distant fourth was offense.

BUT with that being said this coversation was about offense not about what else went wrong last year. And when it comes to the offense the playcalling and offensive coordination were in my humble 'thee' problem on offense.

[TSO]

According to Chris Cooley the team didn't practice off script plays.  He talks about how in reviewing film the Redskins O line does a poor job of mirroring RG3 and basically just let the play go once things change off script.  Conversely, he says watching Seattle's film, they do practice off script plays and their O line does a good job mirroring Wilson.

Yeah, an absolute travesty really. That right there is my biggest issue with Kyle and Mike. They should've made that a priority.

Anyway, have we heard anything about Gruden changing that? I don't think he practiced those plays much with Andy Dalton, lol.

[NewCliche21]

Yeah, an absolute travesty really. That right there is my biggest issue with Kyle and Mike. They should've made that a priority.

Anyway, have we heard anything about Gruden changing that? I don't think he practiced those plays much with Andy Dalton, lol.

 

The only thing that gives me hope is that SOMEONE has to bring this to his attention, and he knows that RGIII isn't Dalton and will need to be taught very differently.

[MumboSauce]

Hope we draft a right tackle and a guard. Some big mauling nasties. RG3 back to form will deodorize some of the stink..regardless of the health and offensive weapons, the O line, guys not named Trent Williams...need to improve a whole freaking lot.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Its speculation of course, impossible to know for sure.  But five people in different ways back DG's point.

 

1.  Logan Paulsen more or less said the 2013 offense was pretty much the 2012 offense.  The 2013 opponents adjusted and the Redskins didn't adjust back.

 

2.  Greg Cosell from NFL Films in his appearances on 980 said repeatedly that the Redskins are super easy to game plan for, I actually think he once said the easiest team to game plan for but don't recall that one for sure.  Cliff notes version of his critique was that the offense is so simple and predictable that it doesn't take a lot of work for defensive coordinators to prepare for.  

 

3.  Chris Cooley, who personally likes Kyle said a few things among them:  Kyle seems to just want to run through the plays he's prepared for the game regardless of the flow of what's going on.   He also talked about how predictable the play action was in 2013, and he could see it coming a mile away and he presumed the opponents could as well.     

 

4.  Doc Walker on one broadcast assessed Kyle and said bright guy and can come up with plays but he doesn't have a good feel for the game in progress -- adjustments, etc  

 

5.  At times the teams just seemed sloppy with penalties, clock management -- it seems almost that Shanny was Gibbs in reverse in that the opponents would adjust to him and figure things out more so than the other way around in the course of a game.     Chris Russell who if anything was a Shanny homer said towards the end of the season that people close to the team told him that the idea that Shanny was a detail guy who hogwash, and it was quite the opposite. 

1. Here's the thing with Logan's comment: The QB missed the entire off-season, including training camp.  What Robert did in training camp last year was basically a farce.  When push comes to shove, he really only had 2-3 weeks of real practice both to gain confidence in his knee and figure out the offense.  I'd have to think that would limit the ability to change the offense too dramatically by itself.

 

2. I think this is a chicken or the egg thing: when offenses aren't executing, everybody says they "simplify" things to make them easier to execute.  Which has the effect of making them easier to defend.

 

3. I keep going back to the fact that if you can't do anything well, you call what you think has the best shot of working.  Kyle mixed it up pretty well in '12, and I can't believe that he just completely forgot everything. 

 

4. There are a lot of people who's opinion's about football I trust, Doc is not on that list.  The only thing he's good for is giving bad nicknames to players and hyperventilating. 

 

Look, I'm not saying that the offense coordination or play calling was absolutely spectacular all year.  Not at all.  But I do think that Kyle managed to use some smoke and mirrors in '12, and was able to use Robert's legs to great effect.  And if Robert had been healthy the entire off-season, they could have worked on his maturity as a passer, and changed the offense. But he wasn't, and they couldn't.  And to top it off, they couldn't use the same smoke and mirrors they used in '12 because Robert didn't have that ability. 

 

So, I'm not absolving Kyle, I'm just saying that I think there's more to the story than he's just a flunky OC who doesn't know how to call plays.

Actually, teams DO indeed practice broken plays. Its ironic that we didn't because going back to Bill Walsh http://es.redskins.com/topic/374998-one-fans-look-to-the-futurerobert-griffin/?p=9669384

west coast offense teams have practiced broken plays. One famous broken play resulted in the 'catch'. Bill Walsh said that about 1/5 of plays end up as an off script adlib so why not practice what happens after the original design of the play.

Bill Walsh talking about how the practice evade moves etc. in that NFL films piece is classic.  If the team didn't practice that, then that's a BIG red X in game preparation on offense. 

 

Lol, I don't want to dredge up old stuff. Offense as a whole was far from 'thee' problem last year.

Personnel, poor defense and worse special teams followed by a distant fourth was offense.

BUT with that being said this coversation was about offense not about what else went wrong last year. And when it comes to the offense the playcalling and offensive coordination were in my humble 'thee' problem on offense.

Agreed that ST and Defense were a bigger issue than the offense most of the year.

 

On the second point, I concede that there were times when the offense coordination and play-calling wasn't spectacular.  But this is a point where we're just not going to agree. Ever. Which is totally cool. Reasonable people can have reasonable disagreements. (Unless there is divine intervention. And I would hope the divine would have better things to do than settle this dispute. )

 

I just believe, in my humble opinion, that if you're an NFL player, and a play is called, you have to execute.  At some point, the players have to be responsible as well as the coaches.  And there were plenty of times last year when execution, whether it was an inaccurate throw, a missed read, an untimely drop, a fumble, or the interior of the line getting pushed around like Ragedy Ann, there was plenty of culpability on the players.  And I think that if execution had been better, it would have made the coordination and play calling look better.

 

I understand it's chicken or the egg conversation.  You could argue, "Well, if the play calling was better, they could execute better." And my only counter to that is that I saw enough open guys with balls flying over their heads, enough drops and enough missed blocks to conclude that whatever was called, those problems were gong to persist no matter what. 

 

Yeah, an absolute travesty really. That right there is my biggest issue with Kyle and Mike. They should've made that a priority.

Anyway, have we heard anything about Gruden changing that? I don't think he practiced those plays much with Andy Dalton, lol.

Just because Dalton couldn't outrun a banana slug doesn't mean that they didn't practice broken plays.  I'm sure they did.  Because in my memory of the Bengal's offense, they seemed to do pretty well after the script of the play broke down.  

[darrelgreenie]

1. Here's the thing with Logan's comment: ....I'd have to think that would limit the ability to change the offense too dramatically by itself.

 

2. ...."simplify" things to make them easier to execute.  Which has the effect of making them easier to defend.

 

3......if you can't do anything well,

 

4. ...Doc

 (1) Logan:

You can still install new plays and new concepts without full speed physical reps from the QB. Heck, teams install offense without some QB ever taking live reps. Griff'f injury is a cop out for not installing new plays especially considering they started him week 1.

(2) Just because a concept is simple doesn't mean its easy to defend. Its all depends on how plays are sequenced and keeping the defense off balance with predictability. The simplest passing game in the NFL is the one Peyton Manning uses designed by Tom Moore and consists of roughly ~12-16 plays.

(3) You know you wrong or making crazy exxagerations when you say we couldn't do anything well. There was alot we could do well that we got away from. Spread concepts, quick game concepts, moving the pocket, less predictable opening game scripts, more no huddle w/bigger no huddle package, etc....

(4) Doc has forgot more football then you or I will likely ever know. And I consider myself an avid pupil and still to this day go to coaching clinics.

 

......

So, I'm not absolving Kyle, I'm just saying that I think there's more to the story than he's just a flunky OC who doesn't know how to call plays.

Well I am not saying the above. Throwing out these types of claims kinda speaks to where you're coming from in your defense of criticisms about the offense. These aren't tweaks on Kyle. Its not personal. These are things that imho are apparent about the offense with cold stark objective observation.

 

Bill Walsh talking about how the practice evade moves etc. in that NFL films piece is classic.  If the team didn't practice that, then that's a BIG red X in game preparation on offense.

That link actually isn't about Bill Walsh talking about how to evade, its about the need for an offense to plan for that contingency. Which is just another example ways the offense wasn't well coordinated. 

 

I just believe, in my humble opinion, that if you're an NFL player, and a play is called, you have to execute.  At some point, the players have to be responsible as well as the coaches.  And there were plenty of times last year when execution, whether it was an inaccurate throw, a missed read, an untimely drop, a fumble, or the interior of the line getting pushed around like Ragedy Ann, there was plenty of culpability on the players.  And I think that if execution had been better, it would have made the coordination and play calling look better.

I believe part of the problem with our discussion is you believe its based in words or rhetoric or generalization. And I am coming from an observation of specifics.

What you are saying is true for ANY coordinator if the execution is better then the playcalling looks better. All plays work on paper if properly executed with the right personnel. And if it were that easy then good coordinators wouldn't be praised and given head coaching jobs. The fact of the matter is that playcalling directly impacts execution. As a coach I speak directly to times where I know I have let my players down through my own mistakes as playcaller. If I ask player X to block player Y on a given play and player X cannot block player Y if I keep calling plays where player X has to block player Y IT IS MY FAULT. Because although the play 'should/would' work if properly executed the playcaller is responsible for puttin players in situations where they can succeed and when a player caller doesn't do that they are at fault.

 

 

I understand it's chicken or the egg conversation.  You could argue, "Well, if the play calling was better, they could execute better." And my only counter to that is that I saw enough open guys with balls flying over their heads, enough drops and enough missed blocks to conclude that whatever was called, those problems were gong to persist no matter what. 

On every team in every offense there will be times when players fail to execute. Errant passes, drops, wrong routes, missed blocks etc will happen and naturally for those plays it would be crazy to blame the playcaller. Obviously no one here is blaming Kyle for those plays.

 

I am actually trying to let this go and not sidetrack this thread further.

 

Bringing it back around, Griffin's mechanics and fundamentals getting back on point only bodes well for him, Grudes, the passing game and the offense as a whole. You combine Grudes with Griffin throw in some weapons and improved pass protection? This offense is going to be good and I say that without homerism or exxageration. Combine the new weapons with Griffin at 100% after studying Grudes offense and hearing his apparent ability to mesh with QBs there is every reason to expect very good production.

[Mr. Sinister]

 (1) Logan:

You can still install new plays and new concepts without full speed physical reps from the QB. Heck, teams install offense without some QB ever taking live reps. Griff'f injury is a cop out for not installing new plays especially considering they started him week 1.

(2) Just because a concept is simple doesn't mean its easy to defend. Its all depends on how plays are sequenced and keeping the defense off balance with predictability. The simplest passing game in the NFL is the one Peyton Manning uses designed by Tom Moore and consists of roughly ~12-16 plays.

(3) You know you wrong or making crazy exxagerations when you say we couldn't do anything well. There was alot we could do well that we got away from. Spread concepts, quick game concepts, moving the pocket, less predictable opening game scripts, more no huddle w/bigger no huddle package, etc....

 

 

Seemed like Griff was at his best when we were running some hurry up stuff, but Kyle would always move away from it and go to something else that would guarantee a 3 and out.

[Burgold]

Yep, it was surprising how much more efficient we were at hurry up and how little we used it. That, really spoke of ego.  A win had to come a certain way.  They Shanny's kept pounding that round peg determined it would fit into the square hole.

[MartinC]

1. Here's the thing with Logan's comment: The QB missed the entire off-season, including training camp.  What Robert did in training camp last year was basically a farce.  When push comes to shove, he really only had 2-3 weeks of real practice both to gain confidence in his knee and figure out the offense.  I'd have to think that would limit the ability to change the offense too dramatically by itself.

 

I'm coming to this thread a bit late and a lot of what I would have said has already been discussed but I wanted to chip on the above point.

 

I think the talk of RGIII missing training camp is a bit overstated personally. He was doing all the individual drills and there was a LOT that they could (and I assume were) working on in terms of footwork, mechanics, coverage identification and new concept/play installation. No question being held out of the team sessions and missing the whole of preseason was a drag on RGIIIs progress and the whole offense - but there was opportunity for development all the same.

[Dan T.]

Good post. 

 

I have long wondered if coaches actually practice "broken plays".  

 

And yes, more than telling the WRs to "come back to the ball"

 

I don't think they do. So many great plays we have seen over the years across the league were not designed plays. And it starts with guys with wheels.  So many times last year when the OL failed, Robert struggled. There was no plan for a guy coming free it seems. It was more like, we need to practice better so that doesnt happen again. versus having a plan knowing it will happen since defenders get paid, too. 

 

And am I just imagining it, or has Desean Jackson been pretty good at getting open on those types of plays?  He sure had opportunities for those types of plays with Michael Vick as his quarterback.

[Llevron]

 

I think the talk of RGIII missing training camp is a bit overstated personally. He was doing all the individual drills and there was a LOT that they could (and I assume were) working on in terms of footwork, mechanics, coverage identification and new concept/play installation. No question being held out of the team sessions and missing the whole of preseason was a drag on RGIIIs progress and the whole offense - but there was opportunity for development all the same.

 

I'm not sure how much opportunity to get better before the season there was for Griffin in this particular case. I think its hard to get better when you are still doing everything you can to get better if you are smelling what I'm stepping in. 

 

Simply put, he has to prove he could even be on the field first and foremost. Learning and developing was put on the back burner. And unfortunately for him, I don't think our coaching staff was forward thinking enough to realize the mistake they were letting this kid make. 

And am I just imagining it, or has Desean Jackson been pretty good at getting open on those types of plays?  He sure had opportunities for those types of plays with Michael Vick as his quarterback.

 

He is actually pretty good at it yea. But what makes him most dangerous, is that its pretty close to impossible for someone to over throw him. His acceleration and ability to track/ adjust to the ball while it is in the air is what makes him elite. I have seen him turn around and THEN see the ball in the air (on a trajectory it shouldn't be on) and run it down. As long as he doesn't lose that skill, he will be scary until the ball is in someones else s hands or on the ground. 

[emor09]

Why the skepticism in this particular case, though?

 

This is the guy who worked on RG3's mechanics and footwork which were great in 2012.  And the flaws last year are things we all pointed out from our vantage points on our couches/beds.  If he's seeing these flaws corrected, why not take it at face value since the knowledgeable among us diagnosed it, at least by mid-season, and the guy who helped him become #2 pick tutored him again and says he's good.

 

Remember during training camp when everyday we heard:

 

"RG3 has a lot of zip on his ball, completed 16 of 18 in 7-on-7s"

 

And everyone got excited? 

[RSanz]

I'm onboard with all of the positive vibes of the new coaching staff (lol Haslett though) and the brace coming off, back to his 2012 form, etc. 

 

It's just unnerving, with his "balls to the wall" play style, that the entire outcome of the season rides on whether or not RG3 can make good decisions on the field and not put himself in danger by diving head-first into open field tackles.

 

More than anything, he needs to show me that he can be smart and protect himself on the field before I can start feeling confident about our chances.  He definitively has NOT shown me that he can or will do that.  Because let's be honest, it's been shown that as RG3 goes, so goes the rest of the team.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Remember during training camp when everyday we heard:

"RG3 has a lot of zip on his ball, completed 16 of 18 in 7-on-7s"

And everyone got excited?

Exactly.

We heard a lot of "feel good" reports all offseason. I am confident in griff but I'm not getting too excited until I see him in September

[MustangSteve]

Its speculation of course, impossible to know for sure.  But five people in different ways back DG's point.

 

1.  Logan Paulsen more or less said the 2013 offense was pretty much the 2012 offense.  The 2013 opponents adjusted and the Redskins didn't adjust back.

 

2.  Greg Cosell from NFL Films in his appearances on 980 said repeatedly that the Redskins are super easy to game plan for, I actually think he once said the easiest team to game plan for but don't recall that one for sure.  Cliff notes version of his critique was that the offense is so simple and predictable that it doesn't take a lot of work for defensive coordinators to prepare for.  

 

 

They were obviously easy to prepare for, the ironic thing is didn't Mike Shanahan laugh at some of Jim Zorns plays? Didn't he ask the players if they really ran them plays? It was the players that kept this team in games when other coaches had them figured out by half time, and would of had many teams put away in the 4th quarter if the coaching was just decent, but it wasn't. With these same players under new leadership, this team will shine if Gruden turns out to be a good coach.

[RandyHolt]

And am I just imagining it, or has Desean Jackson been pretty good at getting open on those types of plays?  He sure had opportunities for those types of plays with Michael Vick as his quarterback.

 

I cannot recall seeing DeSean getting open but it would seem to me to favor the small speedy guys. If he did, I would erase it from my memory bank, being the enemy and all!

 

Robert moving out of the pocket designed or otherwise, should give DCs and DBs panic attacks.

 

I remember far too many times last year, our WRs pulling up and stopping, hands on their hips, as Robert was running for his life. And then the WRs FINALLY half ass jogging towards him.

 

There is a window open for big plays. If they want to shoot the A gap, bring it punks. Gruden will have a plan that is a bit deeper than let's kill em with play action!

[Dan T.]

Exactly.

We heard a lot of "feel good" reports all offseason. I am confident in griff but I'm not getting too excited until I see him in September

 

I'm fine with this approach, considering that the Redskins are perennial Champions of the Offseason.

[Skinsinparadise]

So, I'm not absolving Kyle, I'm just saying that I think there's more to the story than he's just a flunky OC who doesn't know how to call plays.

Bill Walsh talking about how the practice evade moves etc. in that NFL films piece is classic.  If the team didn't practice that, then that's a BIG red X in game preparation on offense. 

 

Agreed that ST and Defense were a bigger issue than the offense most of the year.

 

If I am going purely on attacking coaching, to your point, Mike would be my target more so than Kyle.  So I agree Kyle isn't primary to blame for last year.  It's come out in drips and drabs whether it was reporters, or Trent Williams, or Chris Cooley, Bruce Allen, etc in the off season where its been said:

 

1.  There was a feeling of complacency after last years success where they lost their edge.

2.  Shanny is a poor communicator who doesn't relate well to players one on one

3.  Shanny is passive aggressive, he doesn't like to confront his players man to man, he prefers to do leaks to the press 

4.  His feud with RG3 according to Cooley, was never addressed not even once one on one to clear the air

5.  Shanny isn't a detail guy -- hence the sloppiness with clock management, penalties, preparation 

6.  Danny Smith told Cooley -- that he left partly because of Shanny's disregard in the draft for special teams players

7.  Shanny has had bad defenses in Denver and here, still he is very confident in his abilities and active in game planning

8.  Some of Shanny's defensive assistant coaches like Bob Slowik aren't in high regard around the league 

 

I once liked Shanny and defended him plenty on the board so I know all the pro arguments well.  But what his critics said when he was hired was that he is a great offensive coordinator but not a good head coach because his defenses tend to be horrible.  His critics also said his personnel skills are mediocre at best.      They seemed to be right now that we had 4 years of it to judge.  I had faith in him at the time.  But where he lost me more than anything is his constant excuses and scapegoating -- every year it was something else.