Welcome to the Commanders Mike Sainristil CB Michigan

[method man]

I think Coleman was excellent value in the 3rd. Even if he becomes a guard, you are working with one with elite athleticism. Kind of like getting a longer more athletic Cosmi but in the 3rd round. If this were to happen and we retain Cosmi, you have the KC model of a fantastic interior with the question marks being on the edges 

Edited April 29 by method man

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, method man said:

I think Coleman was excellent value in the 3rd. Even if he becomes a guard, you are working with one with elite athleticism. Kind of like getting a longer more athletic Cosmi but in the 3rd round. If this were to happen and we retain Cosmi, you have the KC model of a fantastic interior with the question marks being on the edges 

 

Cosmi was a better prospect than Coleman, and a better athlete.  Coleman has a better vertical, but Cosmi's broad jump was better and his 40 and agility drill times are about as elite as it gets.  In 2021, Cosmi had the second best OT RAS since 1987.  It's pretty crazy that we were able to get him in the second round.  Jordan Morgan, Tyler Guyton, and Troy Fautanu were all much lesser prospects than Cosmi was, and they went in the first.  We got lucky with Cosmi.

[TurningTheCorner]

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

Cosmi was a better prospect than Coleman, and a better athlete.  Coleman has a better vertical, but Cosmi's broad jump was better and his 40 and agility drill times are about as elite as it gets.  In 2021, Cosmi had the second best OT RAS since 1987.  It's pretty crazy that we were able to get him in the second round.  Jordan Morgan, Tyler Guyton, and Troy Fautanu were all much lesser prospects than Cosmi was, and they went in the first.  We got lucky with Cosmi.

Any chance we slide Cosmi back out to RT?

 

Our line would be Lucas, Allegretti, Biadasz, Stromberg, Cosmi.

 

Wylie and Coleman as your 6 and 7 with positional flex. Just a thought but that OL is likely far better than what we trotted out last year. Not great, but better. Coleman can hopefully grow into the LT position in time as well.

[PeterMP]

26 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Who is to say we didn't try to trade down? Maybe nobody offered enough value to justify giving up on such a talent?

 

If nobody else is willing to give up what you think something is worth and the thing doesn't have some specific/particular use to you (i.e. isn't a need), that suggest that you've over valued it, and it isn't worth what you think it is.

[method man]

8 minutes ago, TurningTheCorner said:

Any chance we slide Cosmi back out to RT?

 

Our line would be Lucas, Allegretti, Biadasz, Stromberg, Cosmi.

 

Wylie and Coleman as your 6 and 7 with positional flex. Just a thought but that OL is likely far better than what we trotted out last year. Not great, but better. Coleman can hopefully grow into the LT position in time as well.

They are not going to move Cosmi back. He’s an elite guard and his shorter arms hurt him a bit at tackle. In your scenario, Stromberg would never start over Wylie at guard

[Warhead36]

11 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

If nobody else is willing to give up what you think something is worth and the thing doesn't have some specific/particular use to you (i.e. isn't a need), that suggest that you've over valued it, and it isn't worth what you think it is.

So you'd take a lesser player over a better one because of short term need?

 

I'll take a Pro Bowl caliber player at one position over an average player at another position. But hey, I wanna compete for Super Bowls, not try to win 8 games in 2024.

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, TurningTheCorner said:

Any chance we slide Cosmi back out to RT?

 

Our line would be Lucas, Allegretti, Biadasz, Stromberg, Cosmi.

 

Wylie and Coleman as your 6 and 7 with positional flex. Just a thought but that OL is likely far better than what we trotted out last year. Not great, but better. Coleman can hopefully grow into the LT position in time as well.

 

Allegretti and Stromberg would have to beat out Wylie in camp for that to happen.  Allegretti is not a starter, he's a back up IOL.  He's going to be 28 next season and has only played significant snaps one year in his career--2020.  He was brought in for depth, and we're in trouble if he comes out of camp as the clear starter at LG.  We don't currently have a starter at LG with history of playing a full season.  If you move Cosmi to RT, then Wylie is almost certainly going to have to start at RG, so I wouldn't see much of a reason to flip them.  Cosmi only makes sense to move if we had brought in a really high quality RG prospect, or signed a legit starter in FA.

 

Right now the left side of our line is a big question mark.  Our best options for starting at LG and LT are a mixture of prospects that we don't know are good.  Braeden Daniels and Brandon Coleman will both be in the mix in camp at LT and LG, but neither have played before.  Same for Stromberg, who only played a third of a game's worth of snaps, and they were at Center.  Paul will be in the mix at LG, but he was terrible last season and only played 400 snaps to boot.

 

Our line should be better with an extra year of chemistry on the right side, and nailing center was consequential.  That was likely the best long term FA move we made, and we can start building a much more sustainable line if Biadasz works out.  But the left side of the line is probably going to be terrible and a consistent point of failure next season.  We have to hope that Coleman can play LT and that someone from Daniels/Stromberg/Paul works out.

[philibusters]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Allegretti and Stromberg would have to beat out Wylie in camp for that to happen.  Allegretti is not a starter, he's a back up IOL.  He's going to be 28 next season and has only played significant snaps one year in his career--2020.  He was brought in for depth, and we're in trouble if he comes out of camp as the clear starter at LG.  We don't currently have a starter at LG with history of playing a full season.  If you move Cosmi to RT, then Wylie is almost certainly going to have to start at RG, so I wouldn't see much of a reason to flip them.  Cosmi only makes sense to move if we had brought in a really high quality RG prospect, or signed a legit starter in FA.

 

 

 

I have low expectations for Braeden Daniels.  By contrast I am higher on Allegretti.  I think either Allegretti or Stromberg wins the starting LG spot.

[xxprodigyxx]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

The reason the Falcons are getting roasted for the Penix Jr pick is because people thought they already had a plan out QB figured out, and then they cast that plan in total doubt by drafting a top ten QB.  Hedging so hard on their bet on Kirk begs the question of why make the bet on Kirk in the first place?

 

this and the fact that I fully expect Kirk to do well and make them contenders and by the time penix gets a legit shot to start he'll be 26 and maybe even 27. a bit different than the Jordan Love or Patrick Mahomes situations.

[method man]

24 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

 

I have low expectations for Braeden Daniels.  By contrast I am higher on Allegretti.  I think either Allegretti or Stromberg wins the starting LG spot.

Same. Daniels very likely does not make the team. Small and so raw

[Conn]

I thought Braeden Daniels had NFL athleticism but needed time to build NFL strength? Is he just a lost cause do we think 

 

Edit: how the hell did this conversation end up happening in the slot DB thread lol

Edited April 29 by Conn

[Going Commando]

20 minutes ago, xxprodigyxx said:

 

this and the fact that I fully expect Kirk to do well and make them contenders and by the time penix gets a legit shot to start he'll be 26 and maybe even 27. a bit different than the Jordan Love or Patrick Mahomes situations.

 

I understand the hedge on Kirk.  He's going to be 36 years old and making a comeback from a career killer injury.  What I don't really understand is why he was such a high demand FA in the first place.  What about his situation seemed to justify 40 and 50 million dollar cap hits?  Everyone was acting like he was coming off the 2022 season instead of 2023, and nobody questioned his deal at the time.

 

After the Penix pick, it's clear that Atlanta very much questions his ability to come back.  So why did they give him the deal in the first place?  They were always going to be in position to draft Michael Penix Jr.

 

It smacks of wasteful desperation stemming from an uncertain ownership situation.  It seems like they had a mandate from Arthur Blank to go all in for a SB because he's 81 and has had prostate cancer before.

[xxprodigyxx]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I understand the hedge on Kirk.  He's going to be 36 years old and making a comeback from a career killer injury.  What I don't really understand is why he was such a high demand FA in the first place.  What about his situation seemed to justify 40 and 50 million dollar cap hits?  Everyone was acting like he was coming off the 2022 season instead of 2023, and nobody questioned his deal at the time.

 

After the Penix pick, it's clear that Atlanta very much questions his ability to come back.  So why did they give him the deal in the first place?  They were always going to be in position to draft Michael Penix Jr.

 

It smacks of wasteful desperation stemming from an uncertain ownership situation.  It seems like they had a mandate from Arthur Blank to go all in for a SB because he's 81 and has had prostate cancer before.

I understand the hedge too, but like you said...it doesn't make sense to pay that much for a QB if they have questions. any younger QB would make more sense in the succession plan narrative.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I think what people may be forgetting in the DeJean vs Sainistril debate is we viewed it as the opportunity of DeJean vs. Sainistril and Sinnott..

Sinnott is the key to the trade down equation imo.  We obviously wanted Sinnott in a bad way, so much so that we'd pass up DeJean if it meant we could grab Sainistril and Sinnott.

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

So you'd take a lesser player over a better one because of short term need?

 

I'll take a Pro Bowl caliber player at one position over an average player at another position. But hey, I wanna compete for Super Bowls, not try to win 8 games in 2024.

 

You are setting up a scenario that has no basis in reality and so has no real value or meaning to what I said and isn't an accurate reflection of my comments. 

 

First, nobody knows they are drafting a pro bowl caliber player vs. average player.  Nobody really knows what these people are going to become.  If you knew for sure, then that would change the over all draft strategy.

 

Second, I've never said only need matters.  I said I would prioritize a need and that better teams heavily consider need.  Especially for a team with multiple needs (like us), that you ever truly have a choice between a pro bowl player and an average player isn't realistic.

 

Thirdly, you've ignored other options.  For example, you can take the pro bowl player, trade whoever you have playing that role currently (for reasonable value), and pick up assets (Note, this is what the Lions did last year with RB.  They drafted the RB and then they traded Swift essentially converting that pick into a need pick.  A good team making their 1st round pick into a need pick.).  And if you don't have somebody another team will give you something for what, then that pro bowl player is probably actually a need.  Or even just a cut a player and use the salary space to sign a player that fits the need.

 

Brining it back to this thread, my conclusion wasn't that drafting Sainristil was a mistake.  It was that they don't think very much of our current secondary (including the two guys that we picked last year) so secondary then becomes a need and the pick is reasonable.

 

In the case where your scenario was at all realistic, I'd take the pro bowl player.  But in the context of the NFL draft, your scenario just doesn't matter.

 

The fact of the matter is that the better teams regularly draft needs, and they make trades to get themselves where their need is a reasonable pick.  The idea that somebody is too valuable to pass up and nobody will trade you reasonable value to get that player requires that you over value that player more than every other team.  Every other team up to that point is passed on them and no team is interested in making a reasonable trade for the player means nobody else really agrees with your assessment.  For you to be right and everybody else to wrong, requires that you know more about that player than every other team.  And unless you have some real inside information, that you are right and everybody else is wrong is unlikely and should be concerning.  A pick/player is worth what somebody will give you for it or the minimal cost to get it.  No more or no less.

 

Despite your earlier claim, need is heavily considered when the Eagles draft.

Edited April 29 by PeterMP

[kingdaddy]

Between this kid and Newton we added two HUGE young pieces to this defense. Add in the free agent signings like the bookend tackles and Frankie Luvu with Bobby Wagner and we are gonna bring the juice on defense. Bobby Witt must be absolutely stoked. Wouldn't it be great to bring in Xavien Howard to replace Fuller as starting CB?

[CommanderInTheRye]

10 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I think what people may be forgetting in the DeJean vs Sainistril debate is we viewed it as the opportunity of DeJean vs. Sainistril and Sinnott..

Sinnott is the key to the trade down equation imo.  We obviously wanted Sinnott in a bad way, so much so that we'd pass up DeJean if it meant we could grab Sainistril and Sinnott.

 

Yes. Two players vs one.

 

 

I think this is a case where both teams made intelligent decisions that benefit their individual circumstances.

 

In our situation (a rebuilding team bereft of talent with only a longshot playoff chance next year) it made sense to go for two very good players and potentially improve two  positions on a team with loads of weaknesses.

 

Whereas the Eagles, in their situation (a team with a great roster, few holes, and a legitimate chance to contend for a championship next year) it made much more sense to go for one potentially great player, that on his own, could conceivably be a difference maker. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

17 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Cosmi was a better prospect than Coleman, and a better athlete.  Coleman has a better vertical, but Cosmi's broad jump was better and his 40 and agility drill times are about as elite as it gets.  In 2021, Cosmi had the second best OT RAS since 1987.  It's pretty crazy that we were able to get him in the second round.  Jordan Morgan, Tyler Guyton, and Troy Fautanu were all much lesser prospects than Cosmi was, and they went in the first.  We got lucky with Cosmi.

 

I disagree with this. While Cosmi's athleticism was never in question his size was. His length and wingspan were always too small for an OT.

 

It was always a knock on him as a prospect with a Guard conversion likely. If he actually had an OT body his athleticism would have gone in Round 1 instead of late Round 2.

 

For reference, I believe Jordan Morgan's wingspan is closer to average, while Cosmi's is something like 15th percentile.

[redskinss]

15 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I think what people may be forgetting in the DeJean vs Sainistril debate is we viewed it as the opportunity of DeJean vs. Sainistril and Sinnott..

Sinnott is the key to the trade down equation imo.  We obviously wanted Sinnott in a bad way, so much so that we'd pass up DeJean if it meant we could grab Sainistril and Sinnott.

 

That's a good way to look at it but you have to add a player we could have gotten at 78.

Would we be better with sainristil and sinnott or dejean and concalves?

 

Time will tell obviously but the latter gives us two tackles to play with and seriously helps cure our ills on the line.

 

 

[OtisDriftwood25]

7 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

That's a good way to look at it but you have to add a player we could have gotten at 78.

Would we be better with sainristil and sinnott or dejean and concalves?

 

Time will tell obviously but the latter gives us two tackles to play with and seriously helps cure our ills on the line.

 

 

I prefer Sainristil and Sinnott. Dejean may have been more value but Sinnott was such a big need. Some of these big boards are people repeating information they heard. For example the Texas tight end was supposed to be second best tight end and he went 5th round. Some people had Johnny Wilson 80th overall and he doubled that. All the respected draft followers here had Sinnott in the 50-60 range. You add in that it was our second biggest need behind LT then it’s definitely not a reach.

[philibusters]

Last year's secondary underachieved more than any unit on the team in my opinion.  I think the biggest issue was probably just have a weak position coach.  Chris Harris was probably an above average position coach.  Brent Vieselmeyer was a newbie last year, his first year as a position coach.    Del Rios schemes didn't help.  While he was fairly vanilla with the D-Line, he used fairly complex coverage schemes.  So we needed a top notch DB coach and instead DB coach was probably our weakest position coach.

 

The impression I get is Sainristil is a natural leader and good communicator on the field.  Granted I don't think a rookie Sainristil fixes last year's secondary issues, but like a 5th year Sainristil who could have been the leader of the secondary, probably would have certainly helped last year.  

 

I was not a Sainristil guy pre-draft.  I acknowledged that he was good, but said I preferred an outside corner.  After the draft now that he is on board I am definitely warming up to the pick.

[method man]

19 hours ago, Conn said:

I thought Braeden Daniels had NFL athleticism but needed time to build NFL strength? Is he just a lost cause do we think 

 

Edit: how the hell did this conversation end up happening in the slot DB thread lol

It’s not just the strength but his college tape was not good either - there is definitely a major technique gap he has to overcome too. He is a guy who probably needs to sit on practice squads for a while.
 

Given his arm length and lack of refinement in his game, he is likely a guard and he probably needs to do it in a zone heavy scheme.

[method man]

3 hours ago, redskinss said:

 

That's a good way to look at it but you have to add a player we could have gotten at 78.

Would we be better with sainristil and sinnott or dejean and concalves?

 

Time will tell obviously but the latter gives us two tackles to play with and seriously helps cure our ills on the line.

 

 

Yep and I was thinking about that yesterday. If you look at how things shook out, there was a clear dropoff after #76 - no more of the “this guy could’ve gone in the 2nd but fell to the 3rd” guys after Elliss. 
 

That being said, Zinter, Haynes or Goncalves  would’ve been nice to have

 

Also the 5th round pick swap mattered - we lost out on Mohamed Kamara as a result

Edited April 30 by method man

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, method man said:

Yep and I was thinking about that yesterday. If you look at how things shook out, there was a clear dropoff after #76 - no more of the “this guy could’ve gone in the 2nd but fell to the 3rd” guys after Elliss. 
 

That being said, Zinter, Haynes or Goncalves  would’ve been nice to have

Most people were reporting there was a big drop off after around 65 or so, so it was real good to juice our pick in the 70s to 53.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I disagree with this. While Cosmi's athleticism was never in question his size was. His length and wingspan were always too small for an OT.

 

It was always a knock on him as a prospect with a Guard conversion likely. If he actually had an OT body his athleticism would have gone in Round 1 instead of late Round 2.

 

For reference, I believe Jordan Morgan's wingspan is closer to average, while Cosmi's is something like 15th percentile.

 

He has the exact same arm length and wingspan as All Pro tackle Rashawn Slater.  His arms are actually longer than Morgan's.  He was a better prospect than Morgan, especially considering Morgan tore his ACL.  Sometimes there isn't a rhyme or reason for why guys with a first round profile end up on day 2.  Cosmi is one of those cases.  So is JerZhan Newton.