Moving Towards our Future Front Office and Coaching Hires. All the Way to the Water Boy - Adam Peters Hired as GM! The Mighty Quinn is HC Kliff Kingsbury as OC. Joe Whitt jr at DC.

[Captain Wiggles]

Quote

Which Titans HC candidate had a more impressive playoff debut?

 

😐

 

Spoiler

 

[illone]

Quinn got thoroughly out coached today by LeFleur.

 

Are we sure we want to interview that guy?

[SonnySideUp]

41 minutes ago, illone said:

Quinn got thoroughly out coached today by LeFleur.

 

Are we sure we want to interview that guy?

Quinn didn't do himself any favors today in terms of the coaching carousel. I bet he has moved down a few positions on a number of lists. 

[Panninho]

I think this whole Slowik/Johnson discussion is understandable but kind of ignores that there is also more to being a HC than just having the better offense. I think from a play-calling and scheming perspective both guys are top of the class. What Slowik did with Stroud was amazing this year, he also got the most out of a pretty inexperienced WR corps (Collins, Dell, Brown) that no one really thought much about before this season started. But then you have Ben Johnson who has transformed the Lions into a sustainable top 5 offense (points/game), when they were worse than ours before he took over. But being a HC is not just about that, it's just as much about how well you can lead a group of young men and how well you can put others (coaches and players) in positions to succeed. We know that there are a lot of coaches out there that are great coordinators but mediocre at best head coaches. Personality is an extremely important aspect of being a head coach.

While these "soft factors" are obviously a bit harder to gauge than the on-field product of an offensive unit, we have read so much about how great Adam Peters is with other people, how well he connects to and treats others. We also have hired a lot of external expertise to help us evaluate the entire package with those coaches. Whatever decision those guys will make, will be fine for me. I just hope the Cowboys hire Belichick or Quinn and the Chargers hire Harbaugh (I don't think we are really interested in any of them), so that we remain the most attractive option for all the other coaches and have a high likelihood of actually getting our preferred candidate.

[ixcuincle]

Was doing some research listening to Keim and Wagoner, but Wagoner basically said this Peters guy raided the late rounds of the draft, picking up gems like Kittle (5th round), Purdy (7th round) and Fred Warner. All those guys play huge roles for them today. I'm really looking forward to seeing him work his draft magic here. The 2023 draft class has been pretty lackluster, we all know Forbes played poorly and Chris Rodrigues was the only standout player (in very limited action). Curious to see what happens in April

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, mh86 said:

Yeah I recall reading yours and others takes on the TEs last year and was really hoping we’d grab one or an OL to help out Howell. Very unfortunate 

 Packers actually grabbed two they liked that draft that much.

 

Another who I really liked Mallory emerged towards the end of the season.

Edited January 15 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Panninho said:

I think this whole Slowik/Johnson discussion is understandable but kind of ignores that there is also more to being a HC than just having the better offense. I think from a play-calling and scheming perspective both guys are top of the class. What Slowik did with Stroud was amazing this year, he also got the most out of a pretty inexperienced WR corps (Collins, Dell, Brown) that no one really thought much about before this season started. But then you have Ben Johnson who has transformed the Lions into a sustainable top 5 offense (points/game), when they were worse than ours before he took over. But being a HC is not just about that, it's just as much about how well you can lead a group of young men and how well you can put others (coaches and players) in positions to succeed. We know that there are a lot of coaches out there that are great coordinators but mediocre at best head coaches. Personality is an extremely important aspect of being a head coach.

While these "soft factors" are obviously a bit harder to gauge than the on-field product of an offensive unit, we have read so much about how great Adam Peters is with other people, how well he connects to and treats others. We also have hired a lot of external expertise to help us evaluate the entire package with those coaches. Whatever decision those guys will make, will be fine for me. I just hope the Cowboys hire Belichick or Quinn and the Chargers hire Harbaugh (I don't think we are really interested in any of them), so that we remain the most attractive option for all the other coaches and have a high likelihood of actually getting our preferred candidate.

 

We are supposedly interested in Quinn.  Bad game for him.  He's not high on my list.  But also I'll say i am not judging any coach on one game whether its was good or bad.

 

Agree with your personality point as for being a HC.  It's also about ability to manage and lead people which is also a personality component.  On that front I've heard plenty that make me feel good about Ben Johnson on that front.  Not so much about Slowik.   

 

Having said that, I use to care a lot about personality-leadership in a HC.  There was a phase where so many good playcallers sucked as HCs and flamed out.  Now I am not as married to it.  But I still care some.  Slowik's personality to me feels like the biggest wildcard in the mix of the people they are interviewing.  I am mixed on Morris but got no concerns about his leadership skills.  Ditto Ben Johnson.  Ditto Quinn.  McDonald comes off like a mixed bag -- hard read for me.  Slowik is the one who to me has the red flags. But having said that to your point one way or another Peters should be able to ferret that out.  So whomever he hires I'd trust. 

 

And the two coaches that seem to me the biggest wildcards as to their personalities are #2, #3 on my list.  So am willing to subjugate that concern some but will see.

Edited January 15 by Skinsinparadise

[ThatNFLChick]

Can we cut this narrative that Goff was trash with the Rams? He had two down seasons in LA where he threw more picks than he should have for sure but this narrative is just false.

His best season is STILL his 2018 season with the Rams. The most TDs he has ever had in a season, the most yards he has thrown for was 2018 in LA (and he did it with 1 less game)

 

2017 with Rams - 28 TDs, 7 INTs (15 games)

2018 with Rams - 32 TDs, 12 INTs (16 games)

2019 with Rams - 22 TDs, 16 INTs (16 games)

2020 witn Rams - 20 TDs, 13 INTs (15 games)

2021 with Lions - 19 TDs, 8 INTs (14 games)

2022 with Lions - 29 TDs, 7 INTs (17 games)

2023 with Lions - 30 TDs, 12 INTs (17 games)

[Going Commando]

7 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Johnson and the Lions have the much higher regular season DVOA.  I also think Johnson has less to work with at QB. 

 

A lot more to work with everywhere else though, and his QB is a vet who was a former #1 overall pick developed by Sean McVay.  He's not chopped liver.

 

Slowik has a more impressive resume than Johnson to me, and I think it's important that he's coached both sides of the ball and has a broad expertise.  He's also from the coaching tree of all trees.  But being a HC is ultimately about leadership of jimmies and joes, not expertise in xs and os, and those skills are hard to suss out from where we sit.

[Skinsinparadise]

I think with Goff, the reason why he gets some grief but agree its overdone is he's not what you'd call the modern QB.  Not a rifle of an arm, and not much mobility.  And at time of the trade to the Lions he was descending not ascending.  I recall that period well because I wanted a QB, wanted Stafford ironically.  And no one was clamoring for Goff.  

 

As a player, his last season was by far his best career grade from PFF.   In QBR the last three seasons pre Ben Johnson he was 24th, 23rd, 22nd.  With Ben he was 5th and 11th in QBR.  So the idea that Ben has brought the best out of him when previously it was trending the other way isn't a fantasy.  It really happened. 

 

The reason why we've read 10,000 times that he's the hottest and most in demand offensive coordinator isn't because the league has been fooled by him -- there is clearly a reason for it.  And its not just because of Goff.  His scheme is lauded for play design spacing.  His running game is lauded for being diverse and inventive.  His play action scheme is lauded for how well it marries the run to pass.

 

But as a QB he gets beat up more than he should.  lol, looks like its becoming a rallying cry for the Lions.

 

 

 

Edited January 15 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

A lot more to work with everywhere else though, and his QB is a vet who was a former #1 overall pick developed by Sean McVay.  He's not chopped liver.

 

Slowik has a more impressive resume than Johnson to me, and I think it's important that he's coached both sides of the ball and has a broad expertise.  He's also from the coaching tree of all trees.  But being a HC is ultimately about leadership of jimmies and joes, not expertise in xs and os, and those skills are hard to suss out from where we sit.

Agree with the bold, which is why I’d be happy with either option. I’d even be okay with Macdonald given his reported leadership skills, as long as he brought in a stron OC like Ken Dorsey (who will probably need a few years to recover his image before a team poaches him from us).

 

I do think Houston’s WR corps is on par with Detroit’s, though they’re better everywhere else on offense. 

[ThatNFLChick]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think with Goff, the reason why he get some grief but agree its overdone is he's not what you'd call the modern QB.  Not a rifle of an arm, and not much mobility.  And at time of the trade he was descending not ascending.  I recall that period well because I wanted a QB, wanted Stafford ironically.  And no one was clamoring for Goff. 

 

As a player, his last season was by far his bad grade from PFF.   In QBR the last three seasons pre Ben Johnson he was 24th, 23rd, 22nd.  With Ben he was 5th and 11th in QBR.  So the idea that Ben has brought the best out of him isn't a fantasy.  It really happened.

 

But as a QB he gets beat up more than he should.  lol, looks like its becoming a rallying cry for the Lions.

 

 

 

 

His best season for QBR was 2018. He made two pro bowls and went to a Super Bowl with the Rams. He was definitely regressing and got back to his old ways with Johnson, I'll credit that. 

 

McVay deciding he wanted to upgrade was his decision and it's become a rallying cry because the narrative is the Rams "threw him away" but again, he never stunk. The Lions got a player that had already proven he could be really good. 

Edited January 15 by ThatNFLChick

[HOF44]

I’m to the point now I’d be ok withe either Johnson or Slowik. I think the difference is too small for me a fan to decide.  I’ll put my faith in the new front office and hope for the best. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

I do think Houston’s WR corps is on par with Detroit’s, though they’re better everywhere else on offense. 

 

Nico Collins was one of the my fav WRs in that draft, I liked Dell, too.  Dameon Pierce was my guy at RB.   Schultz is a decent TE.  I recall defending Brevin Jordan on the draft thread like it was yesterday.     But agree i like the Lions weapons even more.  Just having this conversation makes me salivate for going to town this off season.  One thing the Texans and Lions have in common is they both had aggressive and successull recent off seasons.     It's time for us to join the party.

 

I like Slowik.  I've put a lot of articles selling him on this thread months ago.  He was sort of my backup guy to Ben Johnson.  He still is.  But I want his personality ferreted out.  If I had to pick a personality that is ideal in the mix of those interviews coming up it would be Raheem Morris.  But I am not about personality alone.

Edited January 15 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo#44]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like Slowik.  I've put a lot of articles selling him on this thread months ago.  He was sort of my backup guy to Ben Johnson.  He still is.  But I want his personality ferreted out.  If I had to pick a personality that is ideal in the mix of those interviews coming up it would be Raheem Morris.  But I am not about personality alone.

The other thing I worry about Slowik is he's only been a coordinator for 1 year. I remember seeing the lack of success of coodinators with only 1 yr experience jumping to HC right away. While Zach Taylor is a success, I feel like there are more Brandon Staley's. I could be wrong about that--it's been known to happen from time to time.

[FrFan]

 

https://www.miamidolphins.com/news/transcript-mike-mcdaniel-s-media-availability-august-16-2023

 

(What was your relationship like with Houston Texans Offensive Coordinator Bobby Slowik? He had some pretty good things to say about you the other day.)– "It's long. I wasn't sure if you guys realized but you came to the first Slowik Bowl. The Slowik family has been near and dear to my heart. Ryan is our outside linebackers coach and he was part of the Denver staff my first year as an intern.

Then I got the chance to work with Bobby Slowik in Washington, where he started, like we all do, on the ground floor and worked his way up to work with outside linebackers. Then I got a chance to work with him again in San Francisco and then was part of the crew with myself and Coach Shanahan and (Mike) LaFleur, training him when he came to offense.

I got to red-pen his run drawings, which he probably loves me for. By loving, he does not like that at all. They were always late at night and in red and aggressive with exclamation points. (laughter) But he's a true coach, a true student of the game. I think it's incredibly advantageous that he spent time working on the (defensive) side of the ball. That really helps shape your mind in how to be an offensive coordinator. I'm excited to see what SPF he's wearing out in this Houston sun."

 

(It's got to be high.) – "Yeah. We've got to be 75-plus. (laughter)"

 

(You can't say "f", marry, kill anymore. But hang out with, ghost, and go on vacation – Houston Texans Head Coach DeMeco Ryans, Gary Kubiak and Houston Texans Offensive Coordinator Bobby Slowik.)– "I'm ghosting (Bobby) Slowik because he'd get over it the quickest. What were the two other options?"

Edited January 15 by FrFan

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

His best season for QBR was 2018. He made two pro bowls and went to a Super Bowl with the Rams. He was definitely regressing and got back to his old ways with Johnson, I'll credit that. 

 

McVay deciding he wanted to upgrade was his decision and it's become a rallying cry because the narrative is the Rams "threw him away" but again, he never stunk. The Lions got a player that had already proven he could be really good. 

 

i assume you mean his best season for QBR with the Rams.  Yes that was 2018 when he was 10th.   It's not his best career season in QBR that would be for a season ago with the Lions.

 

His last 3 QBR scores previously to the last 2 seasons under Ben Johnson was poor. 

 

Boy wonder wanting to upgrade that spot IMO is relevant to what he thought of Goff's talent.  But agree that doesn't mean he sucks but he wasn't on a hot trajectory at the time.  He was not in hot demand.  

 

Not sure what point you are pushing though -- Ben Johnson isn't that good?  If so, while Keim isn't saying Ben is a slam dunk he among others has made the case that he's a serious candidate here with a serious shot.  So I'd brace for it being at least a serious possibility.    I don't see any of these coaches as bad choices.  Some I prefer more than others.  But nothing they can do will piss me off. 

 

 

Edited January 15 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

22 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

A lot more to work with everywhere else though, and his QB is a vet who was a former #1 overall pick developed by Sean McVay.  He's not chopped liver.

 

Slowik has a more impressive resume than Johnson to me, and I think it's important that he's coached both sides of the ball and has a broad expertise.  He's also from the coaching tree of all trees.  But being a HC is ultimately about leadership of jimmies and joes, not expertise in xs and os, and those skills are hard to suss out from where we sit.

 

27 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Can we cut this narrative that Goff was trash with the Rams? He had two down seasons in LA where he threw more picks than he should have for sure but this narrative is just false.

His best season is STILL his 2018 season with the Rams. The most TDs he has ever had in a season, the most yards he has thrown for was 2018 in LA (and he did it with 1 less game)

 

2017 with Rams - 28 TDs, 7 INTs (15 games)

2018 with Rams - 32 TDs, 12 INTs (16 games)

2019 with Rams - 22 TDs, 16 INTs (16 games)

2020 witn Rams - 20 TDs, 13 INTs (15 games)

2021 with Lions - 19 TDs, 8 INTs (14 games)

2022 with Lions - 29 TDs, 7 INTs (17 games)

2023 with Lions - 30 TDs, 12 INTs (17 games)

Coaches, GM the problem? Did they give up after 2 bad years? Talent on the team decline what was the problem he was down to 20 td's 2021. Why did they trade him as a throw in with picks and players for the Vet Stafford?  7 years in the league and he finally arrived? Now back up to 30 td's with the Lions. Detroit built his confidence back up is what Goff said. 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

The other thing I worry about Slowik is he's only been a coordinator for 1 year. I remember seeing the lack of success of coodinators with only 1 yr experience jumping to HC right away. While Zach Taylor is a success, I feel like there are more Brandon Staley's. I could be wrong about that--it's been known to happen from time to time.

 

I wish i posted it in real time when listening to a few narratives about Slowik because I can remember more about my impressions listening to it versus specifics.

 

And I was far from predisposed the other way about Slowik.  I know I was one of the earlier ones on this thread pushing Slowik.  So I was predisposed in his favor.

 

But the impression I got listening to the narratives was super nice guy, quiet, not charismatic and some gently-nicely said concerns about whether he could lead a whole team.  One was more specific about the concerns, the other two were more subtle.   But I'll see if I can remember where I heard it.  Sometimes I need to listen twice to something and my impression can change because memory can be tricky. 

 

The reason why I trust my impression listening to it was I was predisposed to Slowik.  And not that any of these guys trashed him.  They liked him but they all left me with the impression of but he doesn't come off like a leader of men type.

 

But if I was going purely on the leader of men category, Rahaem Morris would be my top one among their interviews, followed by Quinn, Glenn.  So for me its the #2 thing, not #1. If they hire Slowik though i am cool with it.  I don't get the vibe right now he's their hot #2.  But granted its early and maybe after this weekend that changes. 

Edited January 15 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 Packers actually grabbed two they liked that draft that much.

 

Another who I really liked Mallory emerged towards the end of the season.

Mallory is the one I liked just looked like he was a NFL TE the way he ran his routes, next year he will even better. TE was my no.2 on what I wanted behind only OL. Look around KC has added a couple to replace Kelce, Lions, Bills, Ravens.......We need multiple TE's. If the Rams draft Bowers like I saw in a few mocks, look out.  

[method man]

5 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Mallory is the one I liked just looked like he was a NFL TE the way he ran his routes, next year he will even better. TE was my no.2 on what I wanted behind only OL. Look around KC has added a couple to replace Kelce, Lions, Bills, Ravens.......We need multiple TE's. If the Rams draft Bowers like I saw in a few mocks, look out.  

Not saying we shouldn’t draft a TE this year but the angst is that last year was the optimal year to take one given all

the available talent. 

[Andre The Giant]

Significant detail on Commanders’s hiring process.

 

 

Edited January 15 by Andre The Giant

[ThatNFLChick]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

i assume you mean his best season for QBR with the Rams.  Yes that was 2018 when he was 10th.   It's not his best career season in QBR that would be for a season ago with the Lions.

 

His last 3 QBR scores previously to the last 2 seasons under Ben Johnson was poor. 

 

Boy wonder wanting to upgrade that spot IMO is relevant to what he thought of Goff's talent.  But agree that doesn't mean he sucks but he wasn't on a hot trajectory at the time.  He was not in hot demand.  

 

Not sure what point you are pushing though -- Ben Johnson isn't that good?  If so, while Keim isn't saying Ben is a slam dunk he among others has made the case that he's a serious candidate here with a serious shot.  So I'd brace for it being at least a serious possibility.    I don't see any of these coaches as bad choices.  Some I prefer more than others.  But nothing they can do will piss me off. 

 

 

 

My only point was that Goff didn't suck. I don't know where the rest of this came from. My original post didn't even mention Johnson it was specifically about the narrative that Goff was so terrible before.

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

 

My only point was that Goff didn't suck. I don't know where the rest of this came from. My original post didn't even mention Johnson it was specifically about the narrative that Goff was so terrible before.

Who said Goff sucked or was terrible though?