Moving Towards our Future Front Office and Coaching Hires. All the Way to the Water Boy - Adam Peters Hired as GM! The Mighty Quinn is HC Kliff Kingsbury as OC. Joe Whitt jr at DC.

[88Comrade2000]

Buzz is Williams doesn’t want to go to Chicago.  He will refuse to go there if drafted.  

Edited January 13 by 88Comrade2000

[HTTRDynasty]

13 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Then hire him to be a QB coach or passing game coordinator or OC, not HC.

Tough for a guy to want to take a demotion (which would be the case unless we hire a defensive HC).
 

Might be all he can get though. Or maybe he’d just prefer to take a year off and collect the check I’m sure he’s still owed from his Bills contract. 

[88Comrade2000]

When is Peter's press conference?

 I’m assuming this will be Monday right?

 

Would like to hear his early thoughts on the team and his direction he wants to go. Also, what is he looking for in his head coach and qb?

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I think a lot of us post based on what we would do or what we think is the best approach and we defend our reasons/postions. I get taking a QB with the #2 pick but understand, I'm skeptical based on how RGlll, Chase Young and how other QB's have flopped for other franchises over the years. I want as many assets and stud players as we can accumulate over the risk of the miss at QB, as that's whats happened to so many other franchises in our position. 

There are two ways to look at the #2 overall pick; you'll never be this high to get your franchise QB again or you'll never get a chance to get this big of a haul for picks again. What's the better bet? For me, history shows that the team who trades back almost always wins the trade. I guess I'm playing the odds over the gamble of hoping the QB picked at #2 plays out favorably. 

 

Sure, people have the right to their opinion, I agree.  I have some outlier opinions on things.  But when I do, I know its an outlier.  Trading out of the pick and skipping QB is not just an outlier take, its a big time outlier take.  It's not a 50-50 thing.    I've been here a long time.  The trade out of the pick and skip QB notion is probably for me the opinion from MY perspective is the 2nd most wild one I've read that's been pushed here in all those years.  For me its not even a debate, its crazy.   But that's me. 

 

People talk here and there about the analytics and how these guys like to trade back.  That's true.  But its 100% not true in one context. That context is when you are drafting high and you need a QB.  The anayltics types I've listened to are even more obsessed than anyone here as to the notion of QBs win in this league and take that lottery ticket the rare time you have it -- its not even a debate in their minds when they discuss it.  Some of them are already talking about this being a rare potential get out of jail card for this team, a rare stroke of luck -- the idea that this team would be too scared to take it isn't even a concept to them.  It's not for me either.  I got no fear that it happens.

 

The best analogy I can think of is we never eat at the top restaurants.  That's for other teams to enjoy.  We finally get a coupon to go and we ponder what if the meal is dissappointing.  What if we can trade that one meal for 3 meals at Outback which is more our speed.

 

I think there is some PTSD from the Rivera era where the supporting cast got weak where in turn people forgot we've had plenty of rodeos with strong supporting casts under Dan.  We've had good receivers.  We've had good O lines.  We have had good defenses.  We've had good running backs.  Yet this team has been irrelevant because of QB.  The idea of maybe returning to the sweet spot under Dan -- that 8-7-1 and 9-7 back to back seasons as a goal to shoot for is beyond depressing to me.  And that's IMO what skipping QBs and trading down means.

 

The only way I am good with trade down but with the caveat that as much as I like Peters I'd want him fired if he gets this wrong -- is something like this.  He believes Maye-Daniels aren't as good as name that other QB like Penix, McCarthy whomever and trades down and grabs one of them.  While I'd be skeptical of the move, it doesn't feel crazy.  Skipping QB totally feels nuts to me -- it will feel to ME like a total embracement of the Dan era from a pure football sense -- and that's why I think the odds it happens is about as close to zero as it gets.

 

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

When is Peter's press conference?

 I’m assuming this will be Monday right?

 

Would like to hear his early thoughts on the team and his direction he wants to go. Also, what is he looking for in his head coach and qb?

 

Tuesday, I think

Edited January 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

But if Williams doesn’t declare and Maye is gone and their scouting department doesn’t love Daniels… why would you draft him?

 

Of course, they’d need to do something else at QB. They can’t sit on Howell, really. But it comes down to evaluations on Daniels.

 

My guess is they take him, but Daniels isn’t the same kind of prospect that Williams and Maye are.

 

I think Caleb is coming out so we likely our spinning our wheels for no reason.

 

But to play along, if they don't like Daniels then there are other fish in the sea.  Trading down is more of an option for me on the off chance Caleb doesn't come out but I'd still rather take Daniels.  But if they don't like Daniels, you can trade down and potentially have Penix, McCarthy, Nix.

 

Whether its deserved or not, this is hyped as one of the better QB drafts in recent years including by personnel guys who have spoken about it -- if they skip the party and a dude they skip over becomes a franchise QB than Peters job is on the line.

 

I know your point is his job is on the line regardless of how it plays out at QB including taking one.  To me yes and no.  Yes from the perspective if you never find a QB, you will eventually get fired.  No from the standpoint that I think its much more forgivable to take a stab at the positon and fail versus not try at all. 

 

Natrually, it's not some obscure position that only we on this thread understand that taking a QB is always a roll of the dice.   Harris isn't dumb.  I am sure he gets the concept, too.  It's life, you take chances.  Some work, some don't.  But if you don't take chances -- not guts no glory.  And for me reading plenty about Harris, I am convinced he'd want to encourage his FO to take risks.  As he's said, he's not looking for an easy path to mediocrity.  And IMHO skipping QB is exactly that -- taking the easy path to mediocrity.

 

Speaking for myself, I got ZERO interest watching them build a roster with no QB.  It would feel like groundhog day for the last 30 years or so -- depressing.

Edited January 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

But that’s why this opportunity is so great. Unlike RG3 or Bryce Young, there’s no king ransom to pay. It’s a potential franchise QB falling right in your lap with minimal risk long term. I would totally get the hesitation on trading up. But this situation is almost perfect. 

 

Exactly.   From 2000 to 2020 we had a 20 years span without picking in the top 2.  Here we are with the lottery ticket.  In arguably the perfect draft to have it.   In the perfect context -- new owner, new GM, new HC -- its an absolute no brainer IMO.  

 

It's why I've not seen a single mock draft type, media type, leak from a personnel guy, nada, no one suggest this team should skip QB in this draft.  

 

Weeks ago, yes.  When Howell was playing better and it looked like they needed to trade up.  But now that the sample size is bigger, Howell struggled and we are picking 2, this isn't much of a discussion aside from a small minority of fans.

 

I've been OK with Howell here.  Defended him plenty including to you.  But I needed to see him play mostly well this season.  He had a stretch where he did and I was somewhat sold but that faded fast.  On the aggregate he played more poorly than good.  And considering he's not what I call a QB with special upside I don't find it appetizing to ride it back with him as a starter.  The Josh Allen analogies to me are crazy.  Allen probably has the strongest arm in the history of the NFL.  He's a freak.  Howell is no freak.

 

It would be very Dan era mode to think about building around a QB who has red flags and isn't perceived to be anything special.  We did it with Ramsey.  We did it with Campbell.   We did it with Haskins and passed over QBs in that next draft because of it.   Heck you can argue the same about RG3, he was talented as heck but he was broken after that ACL injury and we drove that car for another 2 years. 

 

Heck I am old enough to recall the arguments about why not build our team around Colt McCoy.  Colt's flashed.  Add more weapons and why not him?

 

Considering this team's torrid history at QB, i think the odds are even less that this new regime will think heck yeah lets try that same thing that has failed with that organization for the last 30 years, this time we think it can work!

 

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

What logic could there be in waiting to declare?

 

 

Drama and attention.  It was said awhile ago he's take it to the limit.

Edited January 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, KDawg said:

If Williams doesn’t come out I think there is potential that they pass on one. 
 

If Williams is in the draft: 0% chance they pass on QB

 

If he’s not? 30% chance they pass.

 

I'd guess 1% chance they pass on a QB regardless of context.  But on the off chance Caleb doesn't come out and they don't like Maye or Daniels (whomever lands at 2) then I still think they trade down and get one or sign a FA like Kirk or Wilson or whomever.

 

Unless the HC has some fascination with Howell which I think is very unlikely but crazier things have happened.

Edited January 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Long n Left]

5 hours ago, method man said:

I doubt it. The guy has been a QB coach for a while. Not sure if folks see him as a future OC

Maybe his brother Scott then? Asking for a friend.

[veteranskinsfan]

So glad we got Peters.  Surprised 49ers didn't fight harder to keep him.  I guess there was no where up for him with the team management structure.

I hope some other team grabs Cowboys defensive coordinator.  Then if the Eagles lose their playoff game their owner could let Sirianni go.  

Meanwhile if Cowboys lose in their first playoff game Jones could fire McCarthy and make the defensive coordinator the Head Coach.  A lot of change

could be happening this off season in our division which could bode well for us in the future.  Also in terms of free agents, some players could decide

to leave the Cowboys or Eagles if they don't like the incoming replacement coach.  Peters could have a lot of agents calling him for sure.

I like the fact that Peters has a lot of experience with good teams he  has worked for during his career.  Plus he must have a good network of front office

people on other teams he can communicate with when necessary.

[DiscoBob]

10 hours ago, spjunkies said:

Man, I had no idea ES had so many psychologists/talent evaluators. Simply amazing!

 

I got out my DSM and look at what I found?!?

 

Histrionic Personality Disorder: Attention-seeking behavior, excessive emotionality, and discomfort when not the center of attention.

 

Checkmate Caleb 🤪

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Judging by reports Tepper really really really wants Ben Johnson.  I recall when he wanted Rhule he gave an over the top offer so he wouldn't even entertain the Giants who he was meeting with next

 

 

 

[SkinsNatsFan]

2 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Buzz is Williams doesn’t want to go to Chicago.  He will refuse to go there if drafted.  

That buzz from this Wesley Steinberg source is apparently supposed to be a joke?

[RandyHolt]

Seems like a good time to look back at the RG3 Trade up haul evaluator - 4 years after the overpay fact. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/11/washington-redskins-st-louis-rams-robert-griffin-trade-players

[Skinsinparadise]

The Steinberg thread is satire.  It's mostly jokes about the Giants but its purely made up stuff. 

 

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Seems like a good time to look back at the RG3 Trade up haul evaluator - 4 years after the overpay fact. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/11/washington-redskins-st-louis-rams-robert-griffin-trade-players

 

Yep it brings it home.  We actually don't have to do it that way now that's a big part of the charm.  Some have advocated pass on a QB now and trade up next year if we must for a QB. 

 

It's miles better when you can actually take the dude now straight up versus worrying about trading the farm later.

Edited January 13 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Judging by reports Tepper really really really wants Ben Johnson.  I recall when he wanted Rhule he gave an over the top offer so he wouldn't even entertain the Giants who he was meeting with next

 

Yup, and like Dan, Tepper will never learn and will be acting desperate.  Johnson is a smart dude and knows the other offers are all setting him up better for success but hey $ and power talks more for some.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yup, and like Dan, Tepper will never learn and will be acting desperate.  Johnson is a smart dude and knows the other offers are all setting him up better for success but hey $ and power talks more for some.

 

 

While I reject the Tepper-Dan comparisons that some made -- Tepper comes off a bad owner but not in the epic way that Dan has been.  As far as I know Tepper isn't sexually harassing women or breeding a frat house in his FO, intimidating people with PIs or being cheap with taking care of his players and a slew of the other Dan crimes that Tepper doesn't seem to have in common with.

 

But Tepper does remind me of early years Dan where he doesn't want to be denied to get his guy and is willing to do whatever it takes to offer more to get it done.  So as bad as the Carolina situation is, I still expect Tepper to be a force to be reckoned with if he's competition for Johnson.   The Tepper-Dan analogies work to me on one front which is impatience and the belief that they know better than the professionals.

Edited January 13 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsNatsFan]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The Steinberg thread is satire.  It's mostly jokes about the Giants but its purely made up stuff. 

Yep. And the only "source" of that "no to Chicago" info.

[Andre The Giant]

 

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But Tepper does remind me of early years Dan where he doesn't want to be denied to get his guy and is willing to do whatever it takes to offer more to get it done.  So as bad as the Carolina situation is, I still expect Tepper to be a force to be reckoned with if he's competition for Johnson.   The Tepper-Dan analogies work to me on one front which is impatience and the belief that they know better than the professionals.

Yes, Dan and Tepper share certain business characteristics. I must admit though, I have hard time deciphering whether it's more of a rich spoiled or a narcissistic trait. Perhaps these traits commingle with both of these guys.

[Die Hard]

24 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

What an incredible story this guy is. Successful and beloved wherever he goes. 
 

I’ll always be a fan.

[Riggo#44]

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Judging by reports Tepper really really really wants Ben Johnson.  I recall when he wanted Rhule he gave an over the top offer so he wouldn't even entertain the Giants who he was meeting with next

 

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yup, and like Dan, Tepper will never learn and will be acting desperate.  Johnson is a smart dude and knows the other offers are all setting him up better for success but hey $ and power talks more for some.

 

Ben Johnson has also said he wants the right opportunity, not just become a head coach anywhere. He’s already turned the Panthers down once, and Tepper’s reputation has only gotten worse. While I agree with you that he isn’t the serial harasser Snyder is, he has that same level of rule by intimidation, fear, interference, and is just an asshole.

 

An ass-ton of money can change a lot of people’s minds, but I get the sense that coaches and execs are less likely to go to bad situations. Maybe I’m wishcasting, but it seems like Carolina is going to end up with coaches and HOFOs that just want an opportunity, like Bieniemy

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

What logic could there be in waiting to declare?

 

Like I said, I don’t see him transferring because I think he’s going to enter the draft, regardless of the theatrics. 
 

But we’re just having a little discourse here. 
 

I’m not sure with Caleb as far as his motivations. His Dad has said several times that he doesn’t need to come out and could stay another year. It’s all probably smoke and mirrors and publicity, but we should really listen when people say things… especially family members. It means that there is some sort of thought in that direction, even if it’s not necessarily a really high probability.

The new GM has the same probability of getting fired if he selects a bad QB.

 

In general, I agree with you. We’re in a place where QB is basically a necessity. 
 

But if Williams doesn’t declare and Maye is gone and their scouting department doesn’t love Daniels… why would you draft him?

 

Of course, they’d need to do something else at QB. They can’t sit on Howell, really. But it comes down to evaluations on Daniels.

 

My guess is they take him, but Daniels isn’t the same kind of prospect that Williams and Maye are.

Couldn't money be the logic in Williams transferring and avoiding  eing Chicago's pick. What if Ohio State offered him 40 mil to transfer? He'd get the money and then be the #1 pick next year. I threw that number out there because that was what MHJ was rumored to be offered to stay at OSU.

4 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Ben Johnson has also said he wants the right opportunity, not just become a head coach anywhere. He’s already turned the Panthers down once, and Tepper’s reputation has only gotten worse. While I agree with you that he isn’t the serial harasser Snyder is, he has that same level of rule by intimidation, fear, interference, and is just an asshole.

 

An ass-ton of money can change a lot of people’s minds, but I get the sense that coaches and execs are less likely to go to bad situations. Maybe I’m wishcasting, but it seems like Carolina is going to end up with coaches and HOFOs that just want an opportunity, like Bieniemy

Or Bellicheck? I can see Tepper paying out the wazoo for old Bill.

[Riggo#44]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Or Bellicheck? I can see Tepper paying out the wazoo for old Bill.

Have they started interviewing for GM? That might be the direction they go too. Belichick could demand personnel like Rivera here. I think Belichick ends up in LA or ATL.

 

Unless you listen to the excessive fart noises coming from Florio’s mouth

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Couldn't money be the logic in Williams transferring and avoiding  eing Chicago's pick. What if Ohio State offered him 40 mil to transfer? He'd get the money and then be the #1 pick next year. I threw that number out there because that was what MHJ was rumored to be offered to stay at OSU.

Or Bellicheck? I can see Tepper paying out the wazoo for old Bill.

 

So far, by reports, no one is offering $40M to college players. It's a few mil + endorsements for the most part. 

 

Caleb is currently getting 2.5.

 

Arch Manning 2.9.

 

Shadeur Sanders 4.1

 

Bronny James 6.1 (different sport, but he's the tops)

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Ben Johnson has also said he wants the right opportunity, not just become a head coach anywhere. He’s already turned the Panthers down once, and Tepper’s reputation has only gotten worse. While I agree with you that he isn’t the serial harasser Snyder is, he has that same level of rule by intimidation, fear, interference, and is just an asshole.

 

 

Don't know that he has the "same" level of that compared to Snyder.  I know from watching CNBC over the years some actually think he's a nice guy and like him.  But clearly he has some douche qualities.  But Dan was so epically bad in so many ways, that is tough for me to correlate that any current version of this dude is the worst owner matches Dan's worse.  Dan is likely going to go down as an all timer.

 

Overall, Tepper strikes me as a typical I am a billonaire so I know everything including football.  Has that in common with Dan. Also the impatience.  I don't get the vibe he's as stupid as Dan.  He's obsessed with getting an edge via analytics, etc so he's not a decade behind like Dan was.  From what I've read he's willing to spend on scouting and other variables to get an edge something Dan was unwilling to do.   But he clearly is no scout.  And he interferes where he shouldn't.

 

I am not disagreeing he's a bad owner.  But I don't think he's even in the ball park of Dan level bad.  I don't think anyone is.   Also like Dan benefitted early in his tenure from the false sell that he's learning and changing -- Tepper can try to sell that, too. 

 

I do agree that this is the worst time for Tepper to sell that job.  And I do agree he's the underdog.  But Ben Johnson is from North Carolina.  If you couple that with Tepper offering him something outrageous -- I'd think he has a fighting chance, i don't dismiss him completely.  Maybe that's my own fear talking because I want Johnson.  

Edited January 13 by Skinsinparadise