Moving Towards our Future Front Office and Coaching Hires. All the Way to the Water Boy - Adam Peters Hired as GM! The Mighty Quinn is HC Kliff Kingsbury as OC. Joe Whitt jr at DC.

[PlayAction]

On 11/29/2023 at 9:44 PM, RVAskins said:

I could never condone murder. Even for a good ham steak.

 

Not even for bacon???

[Chris 44]

8 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

Not even for bacon???

You have a point there.

[Riggo#44]

20 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

Not even for bacon???

 

On 11/29/2023 at 9:44 PM, RVAskins said:

I could never condone murder. Even for a good ham steak.

 

[Fan since a Fetus]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

*Shots fired*
 

Ron’s gonna cry in the car.

His folded arms will catch his tears and his nip nips will get wet. 
 

Also, just having fun. Ron seems like a good dude and I still cheer for him in his life endeavors, just need him removed from this team.

[kingdaddy]

3 hours ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

His folded arms will catch his tears and his nip nips will get wet. 
 

Also, just having fun. Ron seems like a good dude and I still cheer for him in his life endeavors, just need him removed from this team.

I have an idea where we can still keep RR after we remove him as head coach. How bout we have him continue to call the draft picks and ask them if they want to be Commanders? I enjoy seeing those videos....

[Rufus T Firefly]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

“It’s a long journey,” he added. “... There’s no shortcuts to the top. There’s shortcuts to the middle. You want to be 8-8? I can get you there quickly — 8-8-1. You want to be great? There are no shortcuts.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/11/30/josh-harris-commanders-rebuild/

That quote makes more optimistic than anything these guys have said so far. This is exactly the midst we need going forward. 

 

When owe talk about GM candidates here, I find it interesting to talk about who they could be. But for who to hire I have literally zero opinion on. Because the correct answer is someone qualified, who has good people he wants to bring in and can articulate a vision compatible with the quote above. I want a guy who comes in and says "Look, we're not contending for anything in 2024. Here' show I build a championship caliber roster down the road."

 

Of course, none of us will be privy to those interviews, so I have no idea who will be the person who lays it out like this. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Eagles went from mediocre to 4-11-1 to playoffs next season and the SB the year after that.

 

I like their approach of focusing on the present and future at the same time.   Upgrading the roster while adding future picks.

 

I think we can do the same here, if Howell is the guy, that's the vibe i get as for what they are going to try to do but will see.   But I do think its clear that they favor a future oriented approach.  The Eagles thread that needle perfectly -- always looking ahead especially as to their contract situation.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Rufus T Firefly]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Eagles went from mediocre to 4-11-1 to playoffs next season and the SB the year after that.

 

I like their approach of focusing on the present and future at the same time.   Upgrading the roster while adding future picks.

 

I think we can do the same here, if Howell is the guy, that's the vibe i get as for what they are going to try to do but will see.   But I do think its clear that they favor a future oriented approach.  The Eagles thread that needle perfectly -- always looking ahead especially as to their contract situation.

First off they tanked the end of that year and were transitioning to Hurts at the time. The core of the title contending team was there. 

 

Obviously generally you generally make the playoffs first before hitting a higher tier. But there is a HUGE difference between reaching the playoffs on your road to contention and building for the playoffs and then thinking you are going to build up to a title team from there. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

First off they tanked the end of that year and were transitioning to Hurts at the time. The core of the title contending team was there. 

 

Obviously generally you generally make the playoffs first before hitting a higher tier. But there is a HUGE difference between reaching the playoffs on your road to contention and building for the playoffs and then thinking you are going to build up to a title team from there. 

 

I've heard the Eagles brass explain their philosophy before and some within that FO don't think it takes long to put together a winner -- if you have the QB.   And you can build for now and the future simultanenously by continually adding future picks.  And also locking in the youngish talented players earlish as to 2nd contracts.

 

I used to post a lot of articles about that brass and their FO quotes in the old GM thread.  They were unsure around that time that Hurts was the goods but he kept improving and ended up the goods.  Hence I mentioned, we could likely replicate the same if Howell also ends up the answer.  If he isn't the guy that's a night and day difference.  Will see.

 

Not saying I know that Harris will embrace things Eagles style.  But one thing that makes me think that they will something of that kind is both Russini and Keim saying they've heard this brass plans to be VERY aggressive in FA.  And I forgot how Keim articulated the point but whatever he said came off like that will likely be shooting for the bigger fish in FA.

 

So building future draft capital AND spending aggressively in FA feels somewhat like the Eagles approach about being aggressive now while building for the future.  

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

8 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

Long Journey? Seens like we have been there for the last 25 years without any success. 

When did Snyder ever actually try to build something without taking a shortcut or interfering and ruining it? Never.  We haven’t been on a real journey at all the last 25 years, a journey in this context requires a planned destination. We’ve been circling the drain for decades, going nowhere productive. 

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, Conn said:

When did Snyder ever actually try to build something without taking a shortcut or interfering and ruining it? Never.  We haven’t been on a real journey at all the last 25 years, a journey in this context requires a planned destination. We’ve been circling the drain for decades, going nowhere productive. 

 

Agree.   Snyder was about trading away draft capital versus adding capital.  Only one year in the 25 or so years of Dan did they actually trade down in one draft to pick up picks in the next draft and it was just a modest effort from Scot McCloughan to add some mid round picks in 2016. 

 

It's win now with Dan.  And the version of it with Bruce and Ron became over time a cheap-depressing and boring version of win now where they mostly bargain shopped in FA, coupled with dumb trades.  The early Dan-Vinny version of win now was run incompetenly but I'll give them that at least it wasn't boring.  But marry Bruce's boring cheap approach of win now to Dan's stupidity was the perfect storm to kill the franchise. 

 

The Harris approach is night and day different.  I get some think that maybe we were rebuilding because we sucked.  But the sucking just happened, it wasn't by design.

 

I know to some winning now and building for the future feels contradictory but I don't see it that way.   It's only contradictory if your version of winning now is run incompetently.  The Eagles are constantly aggressive in making movies to win now while also stacking the future by adding picks and being smart about locking in their players with contracts. 

 

I suspect we are about to see a similar approach from Harris -- if and only if they see Howell as the guy at QB.  If they do see Howell as the guy, they got him cheap for the next two years.  I don't get the impression that they will squander that opportunity if so. 

 

 

 

   

Edited December 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Eagles went from mediocre to 4-11-1 to playoffs next season and the SB the year after that.

 

I like their approach of focusing on the present and future at the same time.   Upgrading the roster while adding future picks.

 

I think we can do the same here, if Howell is the guy, that's the vibe i get as for what they are going to try to do but will see.   But I do think its clear that they favor a future oriented approach.  The Eagles thread that needle perfectly -- always looking ahead especially as to their contract situation.

Eagles weren’t as bad.

 

2017- 13-3, Won Superbowl in Pederson’s 2nd year

2018- 9-7, lost in divisional round

2019- 9-7, lost in wild card 

2020- 4-11-1, Pederson fired

2021- 9-8- lost wild card

2022- 14-3- lost superbowl

 

They had one bad year. They weren’t as bad/mediocre as we were. For the most part, they were a consistent playoff team.

 

We are nowhere like the Eagles have been.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Eagles weren’t as bad.

 

2017- 13-3, Won Superbowl in Pederson’s 2nd year

2018- 9-7, lost in divisional round

2019- 9-7, lost in wild card 

2020- 4-11-1, Pederson fired

2021- 9-8- lost wild card

2022- 14-3- lost superbowl

 

They had one bad year. They weren’t as bad/mediocre as we were. For the most part, they were a consistent playoff team.

 

We are nowhere like the Eagles have been.

 

Didn't say they were as bad.  8-8-1 doesn't though feel that much different from 9-7.

 

Otherwise you took their 2 successful seasons after 4-11-1, which actually helps make my point so thank you for that.

 

I know you think this roster sucks and expect a tear down.  I think based on what am hearing from beat guys you will likely be dissappointed on that front unless the new GM advocates for it.  The vibe I get it they will reload versus tear this down.  But reload smartly with young players from the draft and FA.

 

Feels to me that the first three mediocre teams from Ron weren't a mirage.  That's what those teams were so so.  I don't think it was Ron just killing it as a coach and elevating a bad roster to play better than their talent.  If I recall you used to feel the same way -- Ron was stuck on the needle of so so.

 

This season as it has for other regimes it crashed in his last coaching year.  I think this is a mediocre roster, and it doesn't suck.  Keim is rarely wrong, he mentioned on one podcast something that gave the vibe is they likely will swing bigger in FA.  I'd have ignored it but Russini said the same thing.

 

Howell is the X factor.  If they believe in him, its intuitive that they will swing hard otherwise what's the point of having a QB on a cheap contract?  If they don't believe in him, I think you have a better shot at the tear down. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Commander202]

6 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

First off they tanked the end of that year and were transitioning to Hurts at the time. The core of the title contending team was there. 

 

Obviously generally you generally make the playoffs first before hitting a higher tier. But there is a HUGE difference between reaching the playoffs on your road to contention and building for the playoffs and then thinking you are going to build up to a title team from there. 

Sounds like we need to do the same thing since it’s working for them .

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Didn't say they were as bad.  8-8-1 doesn't though feel that much different from 9-7.

 

Otherwise you took their 2 successful seasons after 4-11-1, which actually helps make my point so thank you for that.

 

I know you think this roster sucks and expect a tear down.  I think based on what am hearing from beat guys you will likely be dissappointed on that front unless the new GM advocates for it.  The vibe I get it they will reload versus tear this down.  But reload smartly with young players from the draft and FA.

 

Feels to me that the first three mediocre teams from Ron weren't a mirage.  That's what those teams were so so.  I don't think it was Ron just killing it as a coach and elevating a bad roster to play better than their talent.  If I recall you used to feel the same way -- Ron was stuck on the needle of so so.

 

This season as it has for other regimes it crashed in his last coaching year.  I think this is a mediocre roster, and it doesn't suck.  Keim is rarely wrong, he mentioned on one podcast something that gave the vibe is they likely will swing bigger in FA.  I'd have ignored it but Russini said the same thing.

 

Howell is the X factor.  If they believe in him, its intuitive that they will swing hard otherwise what's the point of having a QB on a cheap contract?  If they don't believe in him, I think you have a better shot at the tear down. 

No one knows what they will do in reality because the people that the ownership will entrust to shape the team; hasn’t been hired.  I assume Josh will hire the people and let them build/rebuild/tear down the roster how they see fit. They could decide the team has pieces and just needs to fill holes or the team really is really bereft of talent and a tear down is need.

 

I doubt Keim or anyone really knows what we will do next year; unless the Gm we plan to hire has already been looking at the roster. While Gm hasn’t been hired, the guy the are interested in has been asked to look at the roster.  I really don’t think this is case. Maybe a consultant is looking over the roster but still it would be up to the Gm and coach we hire.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

No one knows what they will do in reality because the people that the ownership will entrust to shape the team; hasn’t been hired.  I assume Josh will hire the people and let them build/rebuild/tear down the roster how they see fit. They could decide the team has pieces and just needs to fill holes or the team really is really bereft of talent and a tear down is need.

 

I doubt Keim or anyone really knows what we will do next year; unless the Gm we plan to hire has already been looking at the roster. While Gm hasn’t been hired, the guy the are interested in has been asked to look at the roster.  I really don’t think this is case. Maybe a consultant is looking over the roster but still it would be up to the Gm and coach we hire.

 

That's why I said unless the new GM feels differently.  Also Howell like I said is the clear X factor.

 

But whomever Harris is consulting with now, whether its the minority owners or his anaytics hire --the vibe that at least one national repoter got and the top local one (Keim) is to expect an aggressive FA season from this crop.

 

Snider (I goof on him plenty) who I give stock with on just this point alone said he talked to Rales about Howell and Rales raved about him.  

 

Will see.  If they (and the new GM) dig Howell it would be silly to just give up his two seasons coming up on the cheap which is essence they'd be doing it if they tore it all down. 

 

I understand from beat guys reporting that they could have traded more players before the trading deadline and simply didn't want to do it

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

Offseason will be exciting. Just gave to wait and see , who gets the Gm and coaching jobs.

 

I don’t want us to use all that cap space. Free agency shouldn’t be the end all. I think the draft will be more important to our success than free agency.

 

[formerly4skins]

18 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

How bout we have him continue to call the draft picks and ask them if they want to be Commanders? I enjoy seeing those videos....

 

Ron calling Forbes and getting his name wrong was such a classic "Simple-Ron" moment...nothing makes a new guy feel welcome like not even knowing his name 😆 

 

 

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

On 12/1/2023 at 7:48 AM, Est.1974 said:

This is certainly true. 
 

Looking back at the off-season though, the big discussion point by many was all about Synder having no money to fund free agency. 

Do I buy Dan gave Ron a budget? Yes. But it made it even more important that Ron spent it wisely and he didn’t 

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The idea of working for Tepper can bring a man to tears.

[Jumbo]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:41 PM, skinsfan4128 said:

You sir, are a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day. 

 

Do you have anything in life that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside...other than seeing RR fired?

 

HTTR!

 

Our beloved 88 🤪 is ever 88 (and an es'er since day one) but not EVERY post he makes is wrong. 😯😃

 

I actually agree mostly with that last one. 

 

(Also have to respect what has to be the rhino-thick hide he has given the typical feedback he gets😆).

[skinsfan66]

Agree with anybody who thinks we can be rebuilt and how long the Planned Journey takes is not the solution. If you hire the right people and let them do their Job (it does not matter), 1/2 years or 4/5 years or never. Jack K. hired the right people. Snyder did not, everything he planned or picked failed. Bobby B. is in the Hall because he picked Joe G. and knew how to pick the players and build the team. Short cuts can be taken if they are the right ones by the right people.  Just like the debate about where you can get a top QB, just pick the right one. I think we will find out where this is going to go after a couple years maybe sooner. The ball is in the new owners court. Hoping for the early turnaround of course and it can be and has been done. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

Agree with anybody who thinks we can be rebuilt and how long the Planned Journey takes is not the solution. If you hire the right people and let them do their Job (it does not matter), 1/2 years or 4/5 years or never. Jack K. hired the right people. Snyder did not, everything he planned or picked failed. Bobby B. is in the Hall because he picked Joe G. and knew how to pick the players and build the team. Short cuts can be taken if they are the right ones by the right people.  Just like the debate about where you can get a top QB, just pick the right one. I think we will find out where this is going to go after a couple years maybe sooner. The ball is in the new owners court. Hoping for the early turnaround of course and it can be and has been done. 

 

Agree.

 

I think ironically the coaches we've had who try to save their jobs have conditioned us to believe rebuilds are long and painful.  Shanny when they were losing in season 4, was suggesting heck it takes 5 years.  Ironically in Denver it took him just two seasons to win a SB.  But here's its long and painful of course.  With Rivera he acts like its some 10 year program.  It's just these guys trying to save their butts.  It's not reality. 

 

Randy Mueller, ex-GM, who won GM of the season one year, so he's not exactly a no one, talked about this not long ago.  If you got a QB, it should be 1-2 years if you use trades, the draft, FA well especially in today's NFL.

 

My point in a previous post here wasn't that we've had a similar run to the Eagles.  That would be beyond ridiculous and people who follow my posting know I don't think that even remotely.  I've been one of the most critical people here including about the mediocre run during Bruce's "heyday."   I've been touting the Eagles FO and Roseman's methods before it was cool on the previous FO thread. 

 

Heck when the Eagles actually had that down season, i was called out by a regular from that FO thread, who threw it in my face because I was associated that closely to them.   Thus I find it ironic and funny that I got a post responded to me here which was heavily liked saying dude the Eagles were better than Washington as if it needed to be explained to me.  Yeah, I know. . It's cool i don't expect everyone to know my posting history on the subject.  But outside of @Koolblue13  i might be the most asscoiated to the Eagles from those who recall that FO thread. 

 

My point specfic about the Eagles, reading a lot about their methods is that they believe that you can build a strong roster ASAP for the present while also building the future.  Yeah the season that went to crap they just double downed and tanked just like I think we should now.  But that's a season that went off the rails. I don't get the vibe they tanked it from the jump. 

 

Some tend to think you can't fill both masters at the same time.  And i agree you can't when you don't have the QB.  As the Eagles brass said years back if you don't have the QB keep shooting again and again and again until you get the QB.   But with the QB, how do you do both?  

 

A. Aggressively fill you needs especially with a QB on a cheap contract.  They talked about this plenty -- pre Hurts contract.

 

B.  Trade down in the current draft and amass picks for the next draft.   So when you have to pay the Qb (like they have to now) they have plenty of picks to replace that talent with cheaper younger players

 

C.  Don't wait until the last minute to secure your younger talent and let the prices esclate.  Lock them in now,

 

We don't do any of this.  We aren't even aggressive as to now either.  This FO's approach, similar to Bruce seems to have a play it "medium" approach.   It's not aggressive for today or tomorrow.   They don't build for the future.  They just play it all in the middle.  Shocking that the result is mostly mediocre records until even that falls apart. 

 

And heck lets pretend under Bruce they held on to their picks and that's a culture change.  Some used that to defend Bruce.  They actually didn't hold on to their picks under Bruce.  But even if they did, they never (except for one modest effort from McCloughan where he accrued some mid rounders in the 2016 draft )  traded down in one draft to get picks for the next.   

 

They can give a rats ass about the future.  I recall Finlay once saying during the Kirk contract debate that he had one source with the team tell him that renting Kirk for another year is fine, they don't care about 2 years from now that's an eternity.   We wait often until the players contracts expire where we lose them or have to pay market prices.  The  Eagles played chess for both working the present and the future compared to the clownshow that has been this organization.

 

So bringing the point home.  If they believe Howell is the guy.  I don't get the impression that they are going to engage in a full tear down.  I think they will use that 90 million and hope a good draft will help them win for the next two years when they have Howell on a cheap contract.  And I know we are conditioned to think that's way too fast to win. But it doesn't have to be.  You can get younger and good at the same time.   Will see.  

Edited December 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:41 AM, RWJ said:

 

 

I come back to this post as it has connections with Ian Cunningham and DC of the Raven's MacDonald and as a coach, his working with the analytical side of football etc.  Shen has been with the team for a good while now and we know about his analytical side along with him know and working with both Cunningham and MacDonald in Baltimore.  Just playing this out but:

 

GM:  Ian Cunningham

HC:  Mike MacDonald

OC:  Who best fits and with connections with Shen/Cunningham/MacDonald or MacDonald on the analytical side?