Next Day Thread: I Can't Think of a Witty Giant Pun

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

 

Likewise, metrics have shown, as posted by others on here, that the Giants are strong up the middle with Williams and Lawrence, and weak on the edges. Where did we attack? Why did it take until the 2nd half of the 7th game to start moving the pocket? Where is the motion, misdirection?

VoR has been accusing me of a blind irrational hatred of EB since the hire, but I just can't understand how you watch yesterdays game and see one offense scheme to be successful with no OL and a sub par QB (not knocking Howell, but he got the living **** kicked out of him yesterday from snap one and was clearly rattled) and another completely ignore everything and keep pushing your offense and be happy about it.

[Thinking Skins]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

Hey guys, I can make our OL not look absolutely putrid.

 

LT: Leno

LG: Paul

C : Stromberg

RG: Cosmi

RT: Lucas

 

They still won’t be great, but Strommy probably doesn’t allow 3 sacks himself. 
 

If they are more comfortable with Larsen vs. Paul put Larsen at C and Stromberg at LG.

+1. 

 

Its like they don't want to try something new. 

 

WHAT WE DO WORKS. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

We have quick hitters in the offense, though. We have been running #17 on quick slants the past 2 weeks. We even have a hot route for hitches when the defense is playing off coverage- something we begged for for years. We try to establish the run and our OL gets thrown into the RBs. I'm just not seeing what the group is seeing with EB. Maybe because I have been going back and watching games over.

You’re not seeing it for whatever reason.

 

I want to be clear: I didn’t say they weren’t in the offense. It’s the timing of using them. We should be sitting in 6/7 man protections on a routine basis. Run screens against heavy blitz teams, including jailbreaks, s-screens, y-screens, etc. 

 

Not just have them, but use them routinely.

 

Defenses are playing tight to our receivers because they know we have about 2.6 seconds MAX to get rid of the ball. So the hitches and such are harder to get out as well. 
 

We should be taking shots, too, on one step fade balls. Loosen the defense up.

 

I’m not against Bienemy schematically, to be truthful. But I am against the strategy. And I don’t absolve him from the OL disaster. He was here when we let our OL coach go. He’s been here throughout us not having one. He wanted Gates and Wylie.

 

I don’t think he’s to blame for the franchise’s malfunction. That is something he inherited. I just don’t think he’s doing all he can to circumvent it. It’s a tough ask.

[IrepDC]

Just now, samy316 said:

 

What film are you talking about?  How does EB "run circles" around Scott Turner?  I want you to specifically list and explain to us how EB runs circles around Turner.  In your "tape watching sessions", what have you seen specifically that we're missing when it comes to EB's play-calling and handling of this offense?  Except for one game and a few decent quarters, he's done nothing much to establish himself as the solution to our offensive woes but he damn sure has established reasons why he's a liability.

I'm glad you asked. EB has built in new hot routes including one where we run a quick screen and one where we run hitches against off coverage. Turner's offense was not that advanced or adaptable. EB also has our screen game humming. We haven't ran effective screens like this in a decade. Our red zone play design has also been exceptional with guys schemed wide open for easy throws and walk in TDs. Our 2-minute offense is also the best it's been in nearly a decade. At the end of the half and game, we have actually been a threat this year. We finally have rhythm play calling where we completely fake out the defense, and sometimes the announcers, by breaking tendencies. We also have used shifts and motions to reveal coverages for Sam. When I have time I will post the film to back it up.

[samy316]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

VoR has been accusing me of a blind irrational hatred of EB since the hire, but I just can't understand how you watch yesterdays game and see one offense scheme to be successful with no OL and a sub par QB (not knocking Howell, but he got the living **** kicked out of him yesterday from snap one and was clearly rattled) and another completely ignore everything and keep pushing your offense and be happy about it.

 

No other sport points out how coaching matters more than the NFL.  You could have the most talented team in the league, but most Sundays come down to coaching, and how your coaching staff preps your team during the week to put you in the best positions to win.  I'm not exaggerating when I say that we might have the worst coaching staff collectively in the NFL.  They don't prepare the team adequately, they don't adjust and they don't put the players in the best positions to be successful on a consistent basis.  Before the season, you could've said that the Cardinals coaching staff or the Bears coaching staff would be up there as worst staffs in the league, but we've seen the way Arizona competes week in and week out with a talent deficient team.  The Bears came here at 0-4 and whopped our asses up and down the field on a short week.  There's no question that this team has the worst coaching staff in the NFL.  The NFL world is realizing this now, and it's fascinating to watch. 

[IrepDC]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

You’re not seeing it for whatever reason.

 

I want to be clear: I didn’t say they weren’t in the offense. It’s the timing of using them. We should be sitting in 6/7 man protections on a routine basis. Run screens against heavy blitz teams, including jailbreaks, s-screens, y-screens, etc. 

 

Not just have them, but use them routinely.

 

Defenses are playing tight to our receivers because they know we have about 2.6 seconds MAX to get rid of the ball. So the hitches and such are harder to get out as well. 
 

We should be taking shots, too, on one step fade balls. Loosen the defense up.

 

I’m not against Bienemy schematically, to be truthful. But I am against the strategy. And I don’t absolve him from the OL disaster. He was here when we let our OL coach go. He’s been here throughout us not having one. He wanted Gates and Wylie.

 

I don’t think he’s to blame for the franchise’s malfunction. That is something he inherited. I just don’t think he’s doing all he can to circumvent it. It’s a tough ask.

Use them routinely and any NFL defense will catch on and blow it up. We ran a screen yesterday that was knocked down by a Blitzer, because if you call the same thing over and over, the defense adjusts. We have been rotating through screens, quick passes, deep shots, run game to keep the defense honest. 

 

I haven't defended the build of the OL because it's indefensible. I'm strictly debating the scheme. It seems people are ignoring or maybe misunderstanding what we're running on offense. I can post film of our offense running everything people are suggesting, but maybe Im misreading something. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the complaints.

[Chris 44]

Just now, IrepDC said:

Use them routinely and any NFL defense will catch on and blow it up. We ran a screen yesterday that was knocked down by a Blitzer, because if you call the same thing over and over, the defense adjusts. We have been rotating through screens, quick passes, deep shots, run game to keep the defense honest. 

 

I haven't defended the build of the OL because it's indefensible. I'm strictly debating the scheme. It seems people are ignoring or maybe misunderstanding what we're running on offense. I can post film of our offense running everything people are suggesting, but maybe Im misreading something. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the complaints.

The Giants gave up the least amount of points all year yesterday. 7 points on a very short field. The O lines a disaster, is the Giants OL that looked better as a unit than ours and was made of replacements better than the one we have? Our O line stinks , but EB definitely is not helping things.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

Use them routinely and any NFL defense will catch on and blow it up. We ran a screen yesterday that was knocked down by a Blitzer, because if you call the same thing over and over, the defense adjusts. We have been rotating through screens, quick passes, deep shots, run game to keep the defense honest. 

 

I haven't defended the build of the OL because it's indefensible. I'm strictly debating the scheme. It seems people are ignoring or maybe misunderstanding what we're running on offense. I can post film of our offense running everything people are suggesting, but maybe Im misreading something. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the complaints.

I think you might be.

 

I agree that using them too often results in defenses jumping them but… they already are. They are on to everything that we do. 
 

If we’re going to pass so much, we need to use more standard WCO concepts. Get the ball out. Use motions more. Use misdirection. Use quicker developing playaction such as flash fakes. 
 

It may not solve the scoring woes. It may not solve the yardage issues. But it should reduce the sacks taken. That’s the goal at this point. Evolve from there. 
 

I think EB is intelligent and can figure it out.

 

I’m more so frustrated with his hand in the OL than his scheme as it’s a large part why his actual system isn’t working.

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Who needs points 

 

 

Shoot, I agreed with Ron here. I wanted Ron to go and fight EB at halftime at this point and I'm an nonviolent guy. I wanted him to start protecting Sam. Every game in these 2:00 drills (like Atl) Sam just gets drilled and its nothing, so its no points, so EB wouldn't do anyhing with it. Ron needed to tell him to run the ball more and move the pocket more and do some things to protect Sam more. I don't know what Ron told EB but I'm sure Ron told EB something because things changed after halftime. that wasn't just EB having an aha moment. That was him getting slapped upside the head by Ron and Jack and them asking WTF are you doing out there. 

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Close to 80% of the fans who voted in a poll posted by 106.7 on Twitter voted for him over Bill Belicheck to be the next head coach.

 

 

 

Only because we don't want Bill. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Thinking Skins

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, mattsb84 said:

I admit I haven't been watching this team much this year, but simply reading the stat lines each week (sorry I wont subject myself to watching this slop)..are there seriously no available OL free agents or PS squad players that can be worked out/signed/poached that would be better than what the commanders currently have? They are on pace to set the single season record for most sacks allowed and they cant run the ball. Maybe I've missed it but, have they been exploring trades/fa/etc? Doing absolutly nothing seems...odd?

 

As Kdawg has mentioned previously, Howell will be a Patrick Ramsey clone by years end at this rate. 

 

 

That throw out of the end zone was a Ramsey throw. 

[IrepDC]

5 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

The Giants gave up the least amount of points all year yesterday. 7 points on a very short field. The O lines a disaster, is the Giants OL that looked better as a unit than ours and was made of replacements better than the one we have? Our O line stinks , but EB definitely is not helping things.

I'm open to discussion, but I've yet to see anyone explain what we can do differently that we haven't already tried. Saying we haven't ran enough screens, quick crosses, short outlet routes, rollouts, etc. isn't the truth. We have ran them all and still had drives ruined by poor blocking. There's 160 starting OL in the NFL and we have 4 of the bottom 10. That's crazy.

[samy316]

3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Shoot, I agreed with Ron here. I wanted Ron to go and fight EB at halftime at this point and I'm an nonviolent guy. I wanted him to start protecting Sam. Every game in these 2:00 drills (like Atl) Sam just gets drilled and its nothing, so its no points, so EB wouldn't do anyhing with it. EB needed to tell him to run the ball more and move the pocket more and do some things to protect Sam more. I don't know what Ron told EB but I'm sure Ron told EB something because things changed after halftime. that wasn't just EB having an aha moment. That was him getting slapped upside the head by Ron and Jack and them asking WTF are you doing out there. 

 

I almost never defend Rivera or Del Rio, but yesterday was entirely on EB.  I'm sure even a dunderhead like Rivera had to be like WTF a couple of times on the sidelines as his QB is getting mauled out there, with no protection.  Don't get me wrong, Rivera is the root of all the malpractice on the O-Line, but even he has to be dismayed by EB's play-calling at times.  I'm in the minority here that actually agreed with Rivera letting the clock go to zero before halftime yesterday, because he accurately assumed that if we got the ball back, we would either lose yards due to sacks, or we might turn the ball over.  I hate being conservative like that with time left before the half, but Rivera was actually doing the right thing and the smart play with letting the clock run out.  I wouldn't be surprised if EB had a talking to by either Rivera, Del Rio or both about his abhorrent play calling in the 1st half.  It would've been deserved.

[IrepDC]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think you might be.

 

I agree that using them too often results in defenses jumping them but… they already are. They are on to everything that we do. 
 

If we’re going to pass so much, we need to use more standard WCO concepts. Get the ball out. Use motions more. Use misdirection. Use quicker developing playaction such as flash fakes. 
 

It may not solve the scoring woes. It may not solve the yardage issues. But it should reduce the sacks taken. That’s the goal at this point. Evolve from there. 
 

I think EB is intelligent and can figure it out.

 

I’m more so frustrated with his hand in the OL than his scheme as it’s a large part why his actual system isn’t working.

Off the top of my head, we have a motion play with Samuel that we have ran about 5 plays out of including a run, a toss pass, and BRobs screen TD last week. Maybe you all are saying you want 80% motions like the Dolphins? Because we have ran them as well as shifts, but maybe you want more. If there are 15 ways to hide a bad OL, we have tried 13 of them already. Saying the last 2 are going to fix everything or make a substantial difference is not reasonable in my opinion. The fact is that our OC has to base his entire game plan around hiding the worst OL in football. EB has shown me the signs he knows how to break a defense down, but this OL has handicapped us.

[KDawg]

Just now, IrepDC said:

Off the top of my head, we have a motion play with Samuel that we have ran about 5 plays out of including a run, a toss pass, and BRobs screen TD last week. Maybe you all are saying you want 80% motions like the Dolphins? Because we have ran them as well as shifts, but maybe you want more. If there are 15 ways to hide a bad OL, we have tried 13 of them already. Saying the last 2 are going to fix everything or make a substantial difference is not reasonable in my opinion. The fact is that our OC has to base his entire game plan around hiding the worst OL in football. EB has shown me the signs he knows how to break a defense down, but this OL has handicapped us.

I didn’t say they would fix everything. I said the opposite, actually

[No Nonsense]

If Washington was smart, they'd be looking for a GM right now. Trade both Chase and Sweat for draft assets. We should have a ton of cap space to rebuild the OL. With the Chase and Sweat we should have multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks. Looking at our schedule (other than the Giants, we might be underdogs in every other game) we could be in-line for a legit franchise QB. Sorry, Sammy is not the answer. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, No Nonsense said:

If Washington was smart, they'd be looking for a GM right now. Trade both Chase and Sweat for draft assets. We should have a ton of cap space to rebuild the OL. With the Chase and Sweat we should have multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks. Looking at our schedule (other than the Giants, we might be underdogs in every other game) we could be in-line for a legit franchise QB. Sorry, Sammy is not the answer. 

I would try to extend Chase and trade Sweat. Chase may not go for that though cause they're best friends (but this is business). Sam is the franchise QB though and I'm all about tring to find a coach to build around him or determing that he is not the answer. 

[Koolblue13]

 

[Skins24]

50 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I don't think the players on defense have an issue with Del Rio.  I've heard multiple times that they love him.

 

Then every single one needs to find a new team.

 

They are more than welcome to like or have no issues with him as a human being, but no one should be accepting of his mediocre at best coaching.

 

[Passizle]

6 minutes ago, No Nonsense said:

Sammy is not the answer. 

I'm not sure how one can make the determination on an essential rookie with 8 start's and a 4-4 record. When he has time, he makes some scary-good throws. I'd also argue that a guy sacked 40 times in 7 games with only 7 interceptions and 3 fumbles yet holding on to a 85 qbr is something of a miracle. We need to address the elephant in the room and that's the O-line, and IMO EB and RV coaching issues.

[No Nonsense]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I don't think the players on defense have an issue with Del Rio.  I've heard multiple times that they love him.  I'm not so sure with Rivera, however.

Then they can be shown the door too. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by No Nonsense

[repo_4]

1 hour ago, samy316 said:

 

I'm going to say something that might sound conspiratorial, but I'm not trying a conspiracy theorist here:  I think that EB knows damn well that he has no shot at becoming an HC here next year, so he's trying to audition to NFL teams as a first time play caller, regardless of the results that entail here.  I think that EB is calling games like he's auditioning for future NFL jobs, and not calling plays to help this team win games.  He's been way too stubborn and slow to adjust, to make me believe that he's looking out for our young QB's best interests.  How do you explain all the dropbacks with the slow-developing routes, with a historically awful O-Line?  Howell is on pace to match David Carr's sack total of 72 sacks by Week 12 or 13.  He's not going to survive being hit this many times, yet our pass-happy OC clearly hasn't gotten the memo to call a game where the ball gets out quicker, and to draw up quick hitters, except for that game against the Eagles.

 

EB is calling games like he wants to prove to the world that his scheme works, instead of trying to win games.  His scheme might work with a better O-Line and Pat Mahommes, but we have neither.  The insistence to dropback so many times is borderline unforgivable.

Or... OR... He just isn't that good. I can't imagine that anyone with aspirations or being promoted could believe that putting a **** product on the field will show his prowess and that he deserves to be looked at differently than what his game plan ACTUALLY produces. There was all the speculation that he had not been given an opportunity to he a HC because of his color. Maybe everyone just saw the truth, that he just wasn't worthy? And still isn't.

 

I had high hopes for the guy too but so far he has been unwilling to get away from his "plan" and try to put players in the actual best position to win. He just seems to rigid to accept that what he wants to do doesn't work and pivot to try something different. That is not HC material. That is Ron...

[Renegade7]

I know I said this was a house money season where either wed have something to build on or Harris would find people that can...

 

But I feel a but broken as a fan right now...John Allens comments on same **** 7 years says to me he feels this is no better then Jay Gruden even after 4 seasons of Ron being here.

 

It is absolutely brutal how much of these players careers we are wasting on rebuilds that turn into bridges to nowhere.  The only thing I want to hear now is when this clown show is over, there's no need for further evidence to be submitted here. 

 

Gimmie some hints or rumors to where we going next because it can't be this.  If the Titanic is sinking, the ship snapping in half feels right around the corner now.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Renegade7

[RandyHolt]

Burn it all down, or simply address the OL. Easier said than done obviously but I vote lets give EB an OL before giving up on him. I bet Ron is telling EB every week to trust the OL and maybe out of spite isn't adjusting his preferred offense...wait for it... to help get Ron axed. Random theory aside...

Ron already should be axed from his GM duties alone, mind you. Throwing top picks at the D must end and his GM duties should be fully stripped at this point. JDR must go from getting all the toys he wanted on D and the D under performing yet again.

 

Give Sam a pocket/run blocking/more dynamic RB and we are a different team.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim's podcast.

 

He didn't think the O line played well.  Howell didn't have time to throw.  He didn't like the play calling and flat out said some on the team felt the same way and they didn't get why the adjustments happened so late on offense.

 

He said the trade rumors about  some of the players here are dirven by other teams not this team.  Other teams have inquired about players here but Keim gave the vibe that this team isn't shopping said players.  But he wondered if that changes if they lost to Philly.

 

I was listening some to Mitchell-Finlay.  Mitchell is going off on Howell being the main problem not the coaches and Finlay seems to be agreeing with him -- however, Finlay just about always echoes any Mitchell's football takes.  I personally don't care what Mitchell thinks.   But I don't dislike him either.  I am sort of agnostic on Mitchelll.  But I am surprised how aggressive he is pinning this team's issues on Howell.  He's typically in the blame the coaches mode.  But maybe he's doing it now, I switched off to listen to Sheehan.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Panninho]

48 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Shoot, I agreed with Ron here. I wanted Ron to go and fight EB at halftime at this point and I'm an nonviolent guy. I wanted him to start protecting Sam. Every game in these 2:00 drills (like Atl) Sam just gets drilled and its nothing, so its no points, so EB wouldn't do anyhing with it. Ron needed to tell him to run the ball more and move the pocket more and do some things to protect Sam more. I don't know what Ron told EB but I'm sure Ron told EB something because things changed after halftime. that wasn't just EB having an aha moment. That was him getting slapped upside the head by Ron and Jack and them asking WTF are you doing out there. 

Only because we don't want Bill. 

I don't know man. At that point it felt like our most realistic chance of scoring was a punt return by Crowder. Did not like that decision at all. I agreewith the decision to not run another offensive play, but at least give Crowder a chance and if it goes nowhere you can still kneel down afterwards.

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim's podcast.

 

He didn't think the O line played well.  Howell didn't have time to throw.  He didn't like the play calling and flat out said some on the team felt the same way and they didn't get why the adjustments happened so late on offense.

 

He said the trade rumors about  some of the players here are dirven by other teams not this team.  Other teams have inquired about players here but Keim gave the vibe that this team isn't shopping said players.  But he wondered if that changes if they lost to Philly.

 

I was listening some to Mitchell-Finlay.  Mitchell is going off on Howell being the main problem not the coaches and Finlay seems to be agreeing with him -- however, Finlay just about always echoes any Mitchell's football takes.  I personally don't care what Mitchell thinks.   But I don't dislike him either.  I am sort of agnostic on Mitchelll.  But I am surprised how aggressive he is pinning this team's issues on Howell.  He's typically in the blame the coaches mode.  But maybe he's doing it now, I switched off to listen to Sheehan.

 

Man if we lose Chase/Sweat for a third round compensatory pick in '25 because Ron tried to save a job that wasn't to be saved I will be hot. But I am not surprised. The way we have managed our few assets during the Snyder era was probably the worst in the league. So only fitting, that this keeps happening until our owner can get his own guys in the house.