Official Offensive Line Thread

[Koolblue13]

Nobody is even close to being out of their breaks by the time Howell is on the ground and nobody to dump it off too.

 

Wink Martindale constantly blitzes and since we have no run game, you can just T off on the QB.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Nobody is even close to being out of their breaks by the time Howell is on the ground and nobody to dump it off too.

 

Wink Martindale constantly blitzes and since we have no run game, you can just T off on the QB.

Such trash routes too. The two outside WRs just...run in a straight line. The slot and TE run the exact same route, some kinda lazy curl.

 

Where are the intermediate crossers? Pick plays? Why not a screen? SOME kind of creativity.

 

Jesus. This might be WORSE than Turner. He could at least scheme some guys open.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Such trash routes too. The two outside WRs just...run in a straight line. The slot and TE run the exact same route, some kinda lazy curl.

 

Where are the intermediate crossers? Pick plays? Why not a screen? SOME kind of creativity.

 

Jesus. This might be WORSE than Turner. He could at least scheme some guys open.

It's definitely worse than Turner.

[ixcuincle]

never happened

 

sam is taking a record # of sacks

[Koolblue13]

Watch Wylie just completely ignore the outside blitzer.

[Warhead36]

Damn he has Terry open for a huge gainer too. Pocket collapses so fast but I also don't like taking so many steps back when you're already in shotgun.

 

Just a bad scheme.

[El Mexican]

/Bump

 

If we allow three sacks this week against the Rams, this team will have tied a franchise-worst 61 sacks allowed in a season.

 

The previous worst was the '98 O-line.

 

What the heck happened? Are we really THAT bad?

[srtman04]

4 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

What the heck happened? Are we really THAT bad?

 

Yes, it's really that bad.   In fact,  this is probably the worst O-line in professional sports history....maybe even worse than CFL or college even.  Saying it's trash is actually giving these bums a compliment....

[DWinzit]

12 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

/Bump

 

If we allow three sacks this week against the Rams, this team will have tied a franchise-worst 61 sacks allowed in a season.

 

The previous worst was the '98 O-line.

 

What the heck happened? Are we really THAT bad?

Yes, it is that bad.

What happened.....Terrible coaching, poor personnel moves and evals of players, draft options and free agents along with not making the OL a priority. Okay that is the beginning....

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yes, it is that bad.

What happened.....Terrible coaching, poor personnel moves and evals of players, draft options and free agents along with not making the OL a priority. Okay that is the beginning....

Yeah its a perfect combination of:

 

1. Bad OL. The only one who might be considered a decent starter is the RG Cosmi. The rest would be backups on almost any other team. Some like Paul and Charles would struggle to make some active rosters.

 

2. Inexperienced QB. He either holds the ball too long because he's not reading the field fast enough, he's waiting for the big play, or WRs aren't getting open(see the next point). Either way, a lot of the pressure is on Howell as well.

 

3. Ineffective WRs. If you watch the tape you'll see how often our WRs get covered even by basic man to man coverages. They simply don't get open often enough. But that could also be a part of the scheme(see the next point).

 

4. Poor coaching. We don't scheme mismatches for our best players. We don't adjust to match our strengths or attack opponent weaknesses. We're terribly imbalanced in our pass/run(and this is coming from a pass happy guy). Its just....bad all around.

[Rex Tomb]

20 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

/Bump

 

If we allow three sacks this week against the Rams, this team will have tied a franchise-worst 61 sacks allowed in a season.

 

The previous worst was the '98 O-line.

 

What the heck happened? Are we really THAT bad?

Aaron Donald right now:

 

[skinzplay]

This OL is painfully bad, and it's a 100% RR creation. The offense has been limited in what it can do because RR saddled it with such subpar personnel on the line. Interviewing 2.2 million OC candidates when it was clear he was gonna choose EB also hamstrung us with getting a good OL coach. It's how we ended up with RR's in-house, Panther connection Wharton in that role. That's all on RR, including signing Wylie, who EB didn't want.

[El Mexican]

3 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Yes, it is that bad.

What happened.....Terrible coaching, poor personnel moves and evals of players, draft options and free agents along with not making the OL a priority. Okay that is the beginning....

 

The beggining of what, bro? A complete house cleaning?

 

 

3 hours ago, skinzplay said:

This OL is painfully bad, and it's a 100% RR creation. The offense has been limited in what it can do because RR saddled it with such subpar personnel on the line. Interviewing 2.2 million OC candidates when it was clear he was gonna choose EB also hamstrung us with getting a good OL coach. It's how we ended up with RR's in-house, Panther connection Wharton in that role. That's all on RR, including signing Wylie, who EB didn't want.

 

And no relevant O-linemen were added after stalwarths Trent Williams and Sherf left via free agency.

 

We made ZERO effort to replace them with guys of their same caliber, or at least drafting their replacements.

 

 

[skins island connection]

On 10/3/2023 at 8:55 PM, El Mexican said:

I saw with my own two eyes the '91 Hogs allow a TOTAL of 9 sacks ALL season.

And that was with Rypien at QB who was possibly our least mobile QB ever.

 

I clearly remember our stellar O-Line play from the 80s.

 

Never have I seen this franchise ranking at the bottom of the League with 24 sacks allowed this early in any season. 

That's unacceptable. I know Howell tends to hold the ball for too long bc he likes long and medium routes, but that can't be the only reason for this free-fall.

 

 Because back then we had some new guy named Joe Gibbs, who put together the best qualified coaching staff, and those coaches taught the linemen all the nuances of playing the position, taught them 'influence blocking', and gave them motivation.

 The head coaches we've had over the last 20+ years featured the Verizon Friends and Family plan, where they'd bring their failures of assistants and family members and give them jobs that are very difficult if not impossible to get.  { I do have to give the Shannahans a nod though, Kyle seems to have put together a nice group of players }

 

Players, and coaching staff, need to be held accountable. Guys wanting to come here just for a big payday needs to be shunned. Earn their money. 

[El Mexican]

13 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 Because back then we had some new guy named Joe Gibbs, who put together the best qualified coaching staff, and those coaches taught the linemen all the nuances of playing the position, taught them 'influence blocking', and gave them motivation.

 The head coaches we've had over the last 20+ years featured the Verizon Friends and Family plan, where they'd bring their failures of assistants and family members and give them jobs that are very difficult if not impossible to get.  { I do have to give the Shannahans a nod though, Kyle seems to have put together a nice group of players }

 

Players, and coaching staff, need to be held accountable. Guys wanting to come here just for a big payday needs to be shunned. Earn their money. 

 

Hate the Verizon Friends and Family plan. I'm parcial to the Burger King Family Bundle Deal.

 

But I digress...

 

What the hell is "influence blocking"??? 😳

Edited December 12, 2023 by El Mexican

[Commander Adama]

Why is PFF so high on our OLine?

[RandyHolt]

7 hours ago, skinzplay said:

This OL is painfully bad, and it's a 100% RR creation. The offense has been limited in what it can do because RR saddled it with such subpar personnel on the line. Interviewing 2.2 million OC candidates when it was clear he was gonna choose EB also hamstrung us with getting a good OL coach. It's how we ended up with RR's in-house, Panther connection Wharton in that role. That's all on RR, including signing Wylie, who EB didn't want.

Wait, I thought it was EB that brought in Wylie??  I have been stating that random times based on only what I read here and no one has corrected me.

 

EB isn't perfect but he needs to put lipstick on Rons pig to meet fans high expectations. With or without EB wanting Wylie, Ron was hyper focused on D come draft day and neglected the OL.

Edited December 12, 2023 by RandyHolt

[skinzplay]

Holmes, that Wylie signing was an RR special. Had nothing to do with EB. RR even broached it with Matsko, who basically said hello no.....are you actually trying to handicap the line? Our illustrious "give me my ring" coach signed him anyway.

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Holmes, that Wylie signing was an RR special. Had nothing to do with EB. RR even broached it with Matsko, who basically said hello no.....are you actually trying to handicap the line? Our illustrious "give me my ring" coach signed him anyway.

I know you purport to ‘know people’, and I never quote you questioning it when you make comments like this—I mostly enjoy your posts and ideas. And I’m one of the world’s most decorated Rivera haters lol.
 

But I do not for a second believe that Rivera ignored EB’s input on Wylie, who he already coached for years—not when EB was Rivera’s one get-out-of-jail-free card and essentially his entire attempt at a positive offseason. Rivera foolishly nailed his entire future to EB’s work with Howell and his mystery offense’s coattails…no way does he ignore him on Wylie, who he’s been in meeting rooms and practice fields with personally. 

[skinzplay]

Hey @Conn, no worries, my friend! As I understand it, Wylie wanted to play for EB again much more so than EB wanted him. It's primarily (again)  another case of Reid peddling off past-their-prime players to us. RR was an easy sell, largely because of the relationship those two share (and RR's lack of real GM skills). It was Reid-RR as opposed to EB and Wylie.

 

Even though he signed for starters money, Wylie didn't even know what position he was gonna play for us when he put his John Han**** on the contract. Position flex rules the roost at Ashburn, but EB doesn't operate under that approach.

Edited December 12, 2023 by skinzplay
I don't know why the system edited that synonym for 'signature'. It's a pretty universal term.

[method man]

5 hours ago, skinzplay said:

Hey @Conn, no worries, my friend! As I understand it, Wylie wanted to play for EB again much more so than EB wanted him. It's primarily (again)  another case of Reid peddling off past-their-prime players to us. RR was an easy sell, largely because of the relationship those two share (and RR's lack of real GM skills). It was Reid-RR as opposed to EB and Wylie.

 

Even though he signed for starters money, Wylie didn't even know what position he was gonna play for us when he put his John Han**** on the contract. Position flex rules the roost at Ashburn, but EB doesn't operate under that approach.

This makes sense. If Wright had fallen to us, they would have taken him over a corner. We also know they liked Dawand (he unfortunately didn’t reciprocate). If either had been taken, Wylie would be the LG

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 hours ago, Commander Adama said:

Why is PFF so high on our OLine?

They're no-nothing idiots who worship at the alter of Chris Collinsworth's hairdo?

 

Sarcasm aside, there are 3 reasons why the PFF grades are better than the eye test:

 

1. Even though there is a narrative EB took 6 games to figure out how to run quick game, that's actually not the case.  We ran A LOT of quick game early in the season. And quick game naturally helps OL stats.  We started to run even more of it mid-season.  Because of this, the ball was out of Howell's hands so fast, the typical OL stats get inflates.  You don't have time for the OL to lose, so they get credit for a successful play. 

 

2. PFF has crushed Howell for holding onto the ball too long resulting in the sacks.  Ergo, they take the sacks off the OL room-bill and put it on the QB, which inflates the OL stats

 

3. Every player on the OL doesn't lose on every play.  Even Wylie wins quite a bit.  The issue is he loses immediately about 4-6 times a game, and those immediate losses come at extremely inopportune times and lead to disaster.  Which is not something captured in the PFF grades or statistics.  Same is true, to a lesser extent, for Leno.  

 

And, also FWIW, I think the "being high on our OL" has calmed down some.  I don't (and will never) subscribe to PFF because there's no way I'm actively giving money to that ass hat Collinsworth, but from what I've seen posted, the OL as a whole is ranked somewhere in the high 20's as of a few days ago.

 

The guy who just can't seem to bring himself to crush the OL is Logan Paulson.  He put his neck out there in training camp and said it was a lot better than people thought, doubled down on it early in the season, and now can't really back-track off of it. 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heard Rivera say Stromboli was done for the season.  That's too bad.  I wanted to see what he had going into next year.  If he could actually play a little bit, that takes one immediate need off the board. But now, 4 OL positions have to stay as critical needs. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

@Skinsinparadise go listen to the first 5 minutes of Keims podcast and give me your impression of what my guy Logan says about the OL.

 

I think he’s lost his marbles.
 

Tough look for my guy.  

Edited December 13, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[Forehead]

I think this was already pointed out in the discussion awhile back, but part of the reason the 1998 line was worse (my opinion anyway) is that running was a larger part of the game in 1998.  I checked the stats, looks like in 1998, we ran 401 times and passed 565, or about 41.5% run plays.

 

This year, we've run just 285 times and passed 509, and there are still four games to go.  35.8% run plays.

 

Doesn't seem like a lot but the 1998 team would have been approaching 70+ sacks given up if they had their run/pass ratio at 2023 levels.  And I'm sorry, the existence of Shar Pourdanesh in 1998 means that team loses forever.

[DWinzit]

21 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@Skinsinparadise go listen to the first 5 minutes of Keims podcast and give me your impression of what my guy Logan says about the OL.

 

I think he’s lost his marbles.
 

Tough look for my guy.  

I kept waiting for him to say that he was just kidding. 

He must have gotten our OL mixed up with almost any other teams OL.