Official Offensive Line Thread

[method man]

If we are going to pass 70%+ of the time, Lucas over Wylie is a no brainer. 

[El Mexican]

8 hours ago, Forehead said:

I'm going to go with the late 90's with Pourdanesh and such create-a-players as Bob Dahl, Joe Patton, and Brad Badger.

 

Were they competing for a 100+ sack season?

[Forehead]

1 hour ago, El Mexican said:

 

Were they competing for a 100+ sack season?

 

No, it looks like the high water mark (probably the peak Pourdanesh year) was 1998 with 61 sacks allowed.

 

However, for context, we had Trent Green at QB for most of the year.  I don't remember too much about him specifically, but he had several good years with the Chiefs after he left and I don't remember any specific knock on him being that he held the ball too long.  With Sam Howell back there still learning to be an NFL QB and holding the ball to long, the 1998 long might very well have been on a worse pace.

 

Man for man, I'd take this years line.  1998 we rolled out Brad Badger - Tre Johnson - Cory Raymer - Rod Milstead - Shar Pourdanesh and an honorable mention to Joe Patton because Tre Johnson could never stay healthy.

 

As much as **** about Charles Leno, he's had a significantly better career than Brad Badger ever did and has at least made a Pro Bowl.  1 for 2023.

 

Tre Johnson was actually really good but could never be counted on to stay healthy so you have to pair him with Joe Patton, whose career was about as good/long as his Madden sounding generated name.  1998 was Patton's last season.  I'd still take the combo over Saahdiq Charles at this point, and pray Johnson stays healthy.  I ran the numbers...even excluding his rookie season, Tre Johnson only started 55% of his possible games over the course of his career, but at least he has a pro bowl.  1 for 1998.

 

Cory Raymer vs. Nick Gates is a wash.  I forget, was Raymer the center we had that was always excused for being undersized because he was smart and called signals, or was that Casey Rabach?  Either way, Raymer started 16 games for us for three straight seasons and Gates is pretty unproven, so I'll give it to Raymer by default.  2 for 1998.

 

Rod Milstead vs. Sam Cosmi.  Okay, no one can lie...does anyone actually remember who Rod Milstead was?  No?  Well, let's just say 1998 was the only season he started a majority of games for us, he lost his gig in 1999 and was out of football a year later.  Cosmi has Tre Johnson unreliabiltiy so far but at least has some upside and may yet be a building block.  2 for 1998, and I miss Brandon Scherff.

 

Andrew Wylie vs. Shar Pourdanesh.  I don't care how bad Wylie may look at times, I have never seen a worse offensive lineman in my life than Shar Pourdanesh.  There are a lot of fans on this board who remember the mid-late 90's, the ones who the mention of the Pourdanesh name brings on the shakes.  I am convinced with no evidence that at least half of those 61 sacks in 1998 were his fault.  3 for 2023, and it isn't even close.

 

Final verdict...this version of Howell behind the 1998 line might be on an even worse pace and Howell is probably on IR by week 8.  Trent Green behind the 2023 line doesn't take as many sacks and is better at getting rid of the ball.  Just one man's opinion...but I'm also right.

[SkinsFTW]

8 minutes ago, Forehead said:

Final verdict...this version of Howell behind the 1998 line might be on an even worse pace and Howell is probably on IR by week 8.  Trent Green behind the 2023 line doesn't take as many sacks and is better at getting rid of the ball.  Just one man's opinion...but I'm also right.

Also back then they ran the ball 1/2 the time or more. 60 sacks back then is like 100 on this offense. Now they're going to pass it most of the time, especially this team where the OL and the RB don't seem to be on the same page in the running game. There's either no holes at all and Robinson ends up slamming into the backs of a pile of dudes or he just drags them for 4-5 yards. 

[El Mexican]

1 hour ago, Forehead said:

 

No, it looks like the high water mark (probably the peak Pourdanesh year) was 1998 with 61 sacks allowed.

...

 

Thanks for the nostalgia trip, friend.

So basically we're staring at the second-worst O-line in a generation.

 

I don't know if Howell will make it past midseason

[Forehead]

3 hours ago, El Mexican said:

 

Thanks for the nostalgia trip, friend.

So basically we're staring at the second-worst O-line in a generation.

 

I don't know if Howell will make it past midseason

 

Yeah sadly, I can't argue with that.  This is pretty piss poor no matter how you slice the argument.

[El Mexican]

Well, we allowed six sacks todays and we're up to 40 in total. Worst in the league by a long shot.

 

I'm not joking: at this pace we'll beat the `86 Eagles for most sacks allowed in a season with 104.

 

This line is historically bad, but so is the coaching for a QB that likes to see his routes develop. 

 

Oh, and we're about to eclipse a bunch of our own worst franchise seasons in sacks allowed. 

Not that far from the pathetic '98 line actually -->  https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/redskins-most-sacks-allowed-in-a-season

Edited October 23, 2023 by El Mexican

[Fan since a Fetus]

The last time I saw an oline this bad is when I played in high school. We had to play the big team down the road and for some reason every large player went to that team. We got steam rolled everytime we played them. Yours included.

 

But it was fun talking crap in the trenches. I was a TE and the kept me blocking Kevin Greene all night. He left for a little bit and came back and asked “did you miss me?” I said “I didn’t even know you were gone, I was banging your mom and girlfriend behind the bleachers.” I showed him! Then he ran over me and hit our running back for a loss. Good times!

Edited October 23, 2023 by Fan since a Fetus

[El Mexican]

2 minutes ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

The last time I saw an oline this bad is when I played in high school. We had to play the big team down the road and for some reason every large player went to that team. We got steam rolled everytime we played them. Yours included.

 

But it was fun talking crap in the trenches. I was a TE and the kept me blocking Kevin Greene all night. He left for a little bit and came back and asked “did you miss me?” I said “I didn’t even know you were gone, I was banging your mom and girlfriend behind the bleachers.” I showed him! Then he ran over me and hit our running back for a loss. Good times!

 

Time to increase that medication, friend. 

[Fan since a Fetus]

12 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

 

Time to increase that medication, friend. 

i told a family member the other day that I am radical.I gave the gnarly surfer sign. They argued with me that I’m not because they couldn’t accept the ‘80’s surfer humor and their term for radical was based on people that are extreme at something like terrorism.

 

That first sentence has nothing to do with you, enjoy it or not. The following does. 
 

Im not sure if you are trying to joke around, but you’ve hurt my feelings. I do take medication. You’ve made me feel so awful. I can’t believe I can’t even joke around on a message board without someone telling me to increase my medication! You want to tell me that maybe it’s my special time of the month too? 
 

If you do think I need more, please note that you can send me $1200 for the increase this month. It would be appreciated.
 

i just don’t understand why I can’t lie about going to high school that had a horrible offensive line. That is not out of the ordinary. I can’t believe that you think I need more medication for that!

 

You just wait until I tell Kevin Greene about this. He’s going to be highly highly upset! And just so you know, he passed a couple of years ago. Good luck fighting off his spirit. 
 

Sincerely,

A fan of Mexican food and culture since about 15, not since a fetus

Fan since a Fetus

 

P.S. Oh, he just told me that when he comes to your place to put you in one of his most prized sacks you better not make fun of his middle name “Darwin.” I don’t know what this means, but he said he is going “turtle” on your ass and will bury you in the Galapagos. Honestly, if the tourists don’t ruin it, it’s probably a pretty cool place to be buried. 
 

Have fun!!!

[Rocky21]

Remember when some of us were sounding the warning alarm during training camp and pre-season and a poster or two wanted to wait ‘til the regular season before declaring the O line awful?

 

Well.  Ready to call it now? 😆 They’re bad.  They’re potentially historically bad.  And the ****ing play calling isn’t helping either.  

 

 

 

 

[GoDeep81]

I don't recall anything like this OL. It's like, every play, 3 guys get completely burned. Just, whiff, burned. It seems impossible, at this level, to be that bad. It really is like Fetus said. A bad high school playing the state champs, every single week. It doesn't make any sense. 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

1 minute ago, GoDeep81 said:

I don't recall anything like this OL. It's like, every play, 3 guys get completely burned. Just, whiff, burned. It seems impossible, at this level, to be that bad. It really is like Fetus said. A bad high school playing the state champs, every single week. It doesn't make any sense. 

And these guys are getting paid millions of dollars to be bad at their job.

[Warhead36]

Has the OL chained together even two straight good pass protection reps? Some of the sacks are on Howell for sure, but he almost never has a chance to just take a breath and restabilize. Best case scenario there is a pressure given up every other play. Its actually a legitimate disaster. I'm not sure any of our OL even start on any other team except Cosmi and he had some struggles yesterday too.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Hall of Fame guards and tackles won’t really help you if you’re staring down zero-blitz packages and the OC/QB don’t have a clue.  There’s plenty of talent here right now to have a mid-tier OLine if you have a physical identity and scheme with purpose.

 

But, the OC/QB are the worst in the league and now that there’s 8 weeks of tape out there on them, we’re dead men walking before we even get to the stadium.  Occasionally the HOF wideout makes a circus catch on a hospital ball and that’s about all there is.

Edited October 23, 2023 by TradeTheBeal!

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Hall of Fame guards and tackles won’t really help you if you’re staring down zero-blitz packages and the OC/QB don’t have a clue.  There’s plenty of talent here right now to have a mid-tier OLine if you have a physical identity and scheme with purpose.

 

But, the OC/QB are the worst in the league and now that there’s 8 weeks of tape out there on them, we’re dead men walking before we even get to the stadium.  Occasionally the HOF wideout makes a circus catch on a hospital ball and that’s about all there is.

Yep agreed the scheme sucks too and doesn't help the OL at all. Its like Spurrier all over again when even real good linemen like Chris Samuels and Jon Jansen looked poor at times.

 

Talent wise the OL is probably somewhere around 20th in the league, but the inexperienced QB coupled with a poor scheme/playcalling is resulting in a historically bad season.

[justice98]

There's not really one offensive lineman that you really feel confident and can count on to do their job at least semi effectively.  The only OL I dont worry about on every snap is probably Lucas and he doesn't play.  lol  Leno is probably the next best one and he's having his worst year.  I won't disrespect him, he's at least been adequate in his tenure here, but not great.  Just good enough.

Edited October 23, 2023 by justice98

[GoDeep81]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Has the OL chained together even two straight good pass protection reps? 

Not that I recall. There's "Sam had time" plays, but actual "good" protection? Like we see (on occasion) from every other team in the league, where their QB has an actual pocket, can step up, step back, do his thing and nobody can shake free and tee off? I don't recall any of those. And EB waiting till halftime to adjust/help anything (well, 7 games actually) is also bad. 

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, Rocky21 said:

Remember when some of us were sounding the warning alarm during training camp and pre-season and a poster or two wanted to wait ‘til the regular season before declaring the O line awful?

 

Well.  Ready to call it now? 😆 They’re bad.  They’re potentially historically bad.  And the ****ing play calling isn’t helping either.  

 

 

 

 

Remember when many posters said CB was no.1 need for the team and for the draft?  Looks like Ron felt that way too and his time as a NFL coach will be History very soon. 

[Hazel-Ra]

How many sacks did Patrick Ramsey take? Either way, I'm getting a bad feeling we're about to destroy another QBs leg.

[skinsfan66]

40 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Hall of Fame guards and tackles won’t really help you if you’re staring down zero-blitz packages and the OC/QB don’t have a clue.  There’s plenty of talent here right now to have a mid-tier OLine if you have a physical identity and scheme with purpose.

 

But, the OC/QB are the worst in the league and now that there’s 8 weeks of tape out there on them, we’re dead men walking before we even get to the stadium.  Occasionally the HOF wideout makes a circus catch on a hospital ball and that’s about all there is.

So I guess we are going to need another new QB next year for the 7th year in a row to start? It does sound like it's that time each year to blame the QB and OC again. Tom Brady would be mid-tier level QB at best behind this line, and that's if he made it through the whole season, he would be the first of the last 7. 

[IrepDC]

What would the Dolphins offense look like behind this OL? What would the Philly offense look like if 4 of their 5 starters gave up bottom 10 pressures? Would SF be having success with similar output? We have the worst OL in the league and it's not close. 

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

What would the Dolphins offense look like behind this OL? What would the Philly offense look like if 4 of their 5 starters gave up bottom 10 pressures? Would SF be having success with similar output? We have the worst OL in the league and it's not close. 

They wouldn't be on pace to give up a historically high # of sacks I can guarantee that.

[El Mexican]

4 hours ago, Hazel-Ra said:

How many sacks did Patrick Ramsey take? Either way, I'm getting a bad feeling we're about to destroy another QBs leg.

 

We're about to pass Ramsey at this point and other dubious franchise records in sacks allowed in one season.

 

Here's the link again. This is a historically bad group of players and terrible scheming to add ---> 

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/redskins-most-sacks-allowed-in-a-season

[RandyHolt]

Callahan's OL couldn't stop a stunt to save our QB's bacon.

 

Meanwhile, our defense never tried stunts despite seeing it crushing our offense weekly, all while our 4 D religiously rushing in lanes was getting abused.

Edited October 23, 2023 by RandyHolt