How on earth did the Shanahans (outside of the 7 game win streak in '12) suck so bad in DC?

[SkinsHokieFan]

And lets take Dan out of the equation since he is off limits in this forum. 

 

The coaching staff Mike brought in is looking like one of the best of all time, rivaling what Bill Walsh had.

 

You have Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Mike McDaniels, Matt LaFleur on that staff

 

Kyle went to the SB in year 3 

Sean immediatley turned around the Rams

Matt has been to the NFC title game and is looking like he will be ok post Rodgers 

and Mike McDaniels looks like he is a combination of Gibbs, Walsh and Andy Reid.

 

These guys were all on this staff at the same time from '10-'13, yet only won 6, 5, 10 (and were 3-6) and 3 games! 

 

Even with all of the organizational issues, it boggles my mind the record was so bad here in Washington 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Jim Haslett.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

McNabb

Grossman

Beck

Post knee RG3

pre-good Kirk

 

Absolute disasters at QB for like 85% of their tenure if not more. 

[Conn]

20 minutes ago, SkinsHokieFan said:

And lets take Dan out of the equation since he is off limits in this forum. 

ok then you aren’t going to get a very good answer, as Snyder/Bruce were messing up drafts and FA signings left and right during that time period. Bruce was Shanahan’s hand-picked yes man at GM but he didn’t count on the weasel cozying up to Snyder and playing politics. 
 

The short answer (aside from the aforementioned obvious) is that they didn’t get QB right in time to save their jobs, and the defensive side of the ball was wrong throughout that entire regime. Same issue that killed Mike in Denver even though there he HAD seemingly figured out the young QB/WR1/TE trifecta to make his offense work with the always-reliable ZBS OL/running game. Defense was atrocious.
 

Defense and hiring coaches for that side of the ball was always his Achilles heel. It continued here. 
 

And they drafted like **** most years because Shanahan was too arrogant to pair himself with a real talent evaluator at GM and was notoriously streaky himself in his evaluations (he famously scouted players by their highlight videos because he believed he could coach the best out of them and bring them to their peak performance/production at all times). And his ego was extra huge when he came here because he had JUST nailed drafting a young offensive core for the Broncos when he was fired, and believed in himself to do it again but get it right across the roster this time. 

With some more time and Cousins as “the guy” that staff may have soared to great heights, even with a bad defense. But everything fell apart too soon, after the RG3 drama and the infighting and the Bruce backbiting. It was too broken despite a plethora of great offensive coaches coming up the pipeline. 
 

But it all spirals back to Snyder so you can’t really have an honest conversation about it while ignoring him. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Conn

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

McNabb

Grossman

Beck

Post knee RG3

pre-good Kirk

 

Absolute disasters at QB for like 85% of their tenure if not more. 

^^exactly this

 

Its a QB league. All those coaches that left to other teams all ended up with good QBs with the exception maybe of Kyle, but his franchise has done a great job stacking talent and even then, Jimmy G when healthy is at least half decent.

[hail2skins]

You gotta think that the four year Shanny stint was easily the most disappointing one in the Snyder era, especially in respect to expectations. As others have mentioned, lot of it has to do with QB. it's hard to me to remember anything about the 2011 campaign with Grossman and Beck.

 

Sadly, it seems like the Rivera era is trending the same way for the same reasons. What was the point of Fitzmagic being signed here? That said, I think it's proper at this point to endure the growing pains with Howell.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Well, I know the answer but apparently I’m not allowed to say it.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I think the org dynamics are obvious. And Conn, thank you for that thoughtful answer. 

 

All of those guys were young and clearly learned something, I just think looking back that coaching staff could have had .500 records at minimum, even with the defensive issues. 

 

The QB situations were awful, and we know it got off to a bad start, but Mike had the most leverage he would in April '10 in terms of organizational power. 

 

I am just floored seeing how outstanding these guys are, and yet together they couldn't field a consistent .500 team 

[Conn]

5 minutes ago, SkinsHokieFan said:

I think the org dynamics are obvious. And Conn, thank you for that thoughtful answer. 

 

All of those guys were young and clearly learned something, I just think looking back that coaching staff could have had .500 records at minimum, even with the defensive issues. 

 

The QB situations were awful, and we know it got off to a bad start, but Mike had the most leverage he would in April '10 in terms of organizational power. 

 

I am just floored seeing how outstanding these guys are, and yet together they couldn't field a consistent .500 team 

Yep, that’s a great example (maybe the best) of just how toxic and broken this organization was even back then. Poison to anyone who walked through the door, tainting all it touched. 
 

And yeah: poor drafting, poor defensive staffing/scheming/personnel, failing to get QB right in time...those remain my sparknotes 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Another way to answer…

 

[Renegade7]

8 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

McNabb

Grossman

Beck

Post knee RG3

pre-good Kirk

 

Absolute disasters at QB for like 85% of their tenure if not more. 

 

Nailed it.

 

Daddy Shanahan got run out of Denver at some point post-Elway, his son is the true anomaly here having at no point a true star QB in San Fran, but that's because Lynch is such as bad ass GM he somehow makes up for it.

 

Green Bay pisses me off, but they deserve respect, it looks like Love will work out, that's potentially three stable franchise QBs in a row.  If you always have a QB, you always have a chance in this league.  Stafford needed out of Detroit bad, Tua is the real McCoy, Kirk jus had his best season last year. 

 

Even that quick stint where Kapernick looked like a star with staying power, all these guys right now are better then any QB we had under the Shanahan tenure while they were here (that includes Young Kirk who basically needed Jay Gruden to help establish him as an everyday starter in the NFL).

 

Take the smartest people out there and put them in a room to solve all the worlds problems then cut the power off, what they gonna do in a room that's pitch black dark and no one can see ****?

[Riggo#44]

One caveat: Kyle Shannahan was kind of a schmuck that seemingly grew up. He had at least one blow up here that he got in trouble for and then quit on the Browns, supposedly putting together a PowerPoint presentation to get out of his contract.

[Skinsinparadise]

I read a lot of the clippings when Mike Shanahan was fired in Denver.  The gist of it was.

 

A.  The offensive mastermind was special on offense

B.  His defenses sucked and he didn't like to hire top D coordinators 

C.  Shanny the GM wasn't good.  Shanny the GM got Shanny the HC fired.

 

It pretty much ran that exact course in DC.  Like with Ron being the Czar of the team, they made Shanny the Czar and defacto GM.  Consider that, along with Dan and Bruce's incompetence impinging on the roster along with their cheapness and bad culture.

 

That stadium's grass was awful and they wouldn't spend the money to fix it.  Arguably that was part of the narrative with RG3's injury.  As Keim likes to say now, when Bruce arrived they got uber cheap as for paying for anything including paying employees and moral was down in that building. 

 

During that era, Chris Russell shared they'd serve peanut butter and jelly sandwiches as their dinner on their road flights.   Their lunches were cheap junk food.  Shanny eventually changed some of that.

 

Apoarently, Shanny was so embarrassed by the facility that when recruiting free agents he wouldn't always show them the facilitiy and instead would take them directly to a restaurtant.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[LetThePointsSoar]

The answer is 2 words long. That's it. 

 

RG3's Daddy. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, LetThePointsSoar said:

The answer is 2 words long. That's it. 

 

RG3's Daddy. 

Na, its on Snyder. He instilled the culture of toxicity.

 

If we were like, say, the Steelers, the owner would say "stfu, its Mike Tomlin's call." 

 

Snyder absolutely was the root of all the dysfunction. 

[method man]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Na, its on Snyder. He instilled the culture of toxicity.

 

If we were like, say, the Steelers, the owner would say "stfu, its Mike Tomlin's call." 

 

Snyder absolutely was the root of all the dysfunction. 

I think Dan is what he means by “RG3’s Daddy”

[Going Commando]

Regimes that fail to establish the QB-HC marriage in their first season rarely succeed long term.  That's why Rivera is on the hot seat now too, despite the fact that the culture is vastly better than it was during the Shanahan era.

 

Mike also intentionally tanked the 2013 season, so there is that.  It's why he never worked in the NFL again.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Na, its on Snyder. He instilled the culture of toxicity.

 

If we were like, say, the Steelers, the owner would say "stfu, its Mike Tomlin's call." 

 

Snyder absolutely was the root of all the dysfunction. 

 

Dan has diluted every FO, every coaching staff.   I can't wait for the Netflix series on his dysfunction.  I constantly hear beat guys say the stories they heard behind the scenes are wilder and much worse than what's public.  Clearly, some of those stories were told in confidence and they can't reveal.  But I bet someday it all will be revealed. A book-TV series, something.

 

Shanny shouldn't have had full control of this roster.  But in order to attract people like him they had to give full power.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

28 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Regimes that fail to establish the QB-HC marriage in their first season rarely succeed long term.  That's why Rivera is on the hot seat now too, despite the fact that the culture is vastly better than it was during the Shanahan era.

 

Mike also intentionally tanked the 2013 season, so there is that.  It's why he never worked in the NFL again.

It’s why the Chargers job will be the most sought after

[RVAskins]

Agree that the QB's were awful. But you really can't take the previous owner out of the equation.

Edited September 26, 2023 by RVAskins

[DJHJR86]

It's a real mystery...

 

[Redd]

Talent. The team has a bad habit of overrating below and average players. 
 

Those coaches learned what not to do after making mistakes here.😑

 

Organization has a problem for going after former great older coaches instead of taking risks on younger coaches with modern ideas.

[Riggo#44]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

the fact that the culture is vastly better

Would you say it's....Damned good?

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Would you say it's....Damned good?

I'd settle for the level of professionalism at a Waffle House.

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

I'd settle for the level of professionalism at a Waffle House.