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2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

Conn

By Conn
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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Good to hear they are trying Paul at LG with the starters. I have hope for him. 
 

The again hope is not a strategy …

Yeah, I‘ve had this hope that they “had” to give Charles first crack as the more senior guy.  Perhaps ditto with Gates and they wind up starting Larsen instead? 🤷‍♂️

 

I’ve also had this thought that if they could swing a trade for a high end olineman (or two, lol), the complexion of the unit (and season) could change pretty dramatically.  Of course I get the counter argument - not giving away future assets to avoid a new regime starting on the back foot (and I get some wanting to move on from Rivera).  But smoothing the way for Howell and Bienemy to succeed, in a season that fan excitement has gotten a major shot in the arm… I could see/understand the temptation for ownership.

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Another thing that I think we don’t talk about much in terms of helping the OL is tempo. I’d like to see us go no huddle some to wear out the pass rush. 
 

Don’t remember the last time we executed a crisp hurry up/two minute drill. I’m sad again. 😆

You are not alone. The rage of using hurry up has almost come and gone and yet here we are still clamoring to try it. Heck even late in blowouts our coaches would refuse to use it. The broadcast team would often chime in we "better get moving".  Now the rage is sneaking in a final possession at the end of the half instead. At least we call defensive timeouts to try to get the ball back.

 

I remember Shanahan would use to in early blowouts and get a quick score, and then immediately abandon it.  Only ever used out of desperation; never to put a defense and pass rush on their heels by stopping the endless fresh subs on our woeful gassed OL.

Edited by RandyHolt
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MartinC

MartinC

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3 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I‘ve had this hope that they “had” to give Charles first crack as the more senior guy.  Perhaps ditto with Gates and they wind up starting Larsen instead? 🤷‍♂️

 

I’ve also had this thought that if they could swing a trade for a high end olineman (or two, lol), the complexion of the unit (and season) could change pretty dramatically.  Of course I get the counter argument - not giving away future assets to avoid a new regime starting on the back foot (and I get some wanting to move on from Rivera).  But smoothing the way for Howell and Bienemy to succeed, in a season that fan excitement has gotten a major shot in the arm… I could see/understand the temptation for ownership.

Hard to get a trade for someone of real quality at this stage of the year unless there is a holdout or contract issue - and I’m not aware of any situations like that for O’line.
 

I think late cuts is where we could look if things look rocky during preseason. 

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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32 minutes ago, MartinC said:

He’s clearly not great - but then he’s not terrible either. You are just going to get some ‘look out’ snaps every game. 

 

He's a little bit better than Leno by AV.  He has 34 AV in 5 seasons, and no season that was a very high AV anomaly.  So basically he averages 7 AV, which roughly equals a slightly above average starter.  This is why I can't accept the prediction that the OL is going to be the same (or worse) than last year.  At minimum, we basically added another Leno while only losing Wes.  Roullier was never really a positive factor last season.

 

It's also why I'm confident Wylie is better than Lucas, who is a 4-5 AV player on average.  But his career snap counts are also the reason I'm fairly certain that Lucas is still going to get a lot of snaps this year too.  Wylie always misses time, and he's only played over 900 regular season snaps twice.

 

Wylie might be better than his AV totals suggest too, because he played in an offense where a lot of the AV was going to a couple of genius players, and the afformentioned missed snaps have kept his total AV down.  In his worst season where he only accumulated 5 AV, he only played 500 snaps.  His career average AV accumulation rate is about 1 per 100-120 snaps, which would be a little over 9, maybe even 10 AV if he could manage to play a full season.  9+ AV is beyond "above average." At that point you're getting legitimately good.

 

So while we know Wylie will miss games, when he's on the field, we can reasonably expect a good player, and the missed time is why we still have Lucas.  And we got Wylie for half what it cost the Chiefs to replace him with Jawaan Taylor, who ain't better.  This was a good move by Ron and company.  Especially when you take into account that we were on a tight budget during the ownership sale and had to save our war chest to keep Daron, and that Wylie already has a history of working with Bieniemy, smoothing his transition to our offense.

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
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The history with EB is a legit point. EB knows Wylie’s game really well - what he can do and what he can’t do. He must be comfortable with him - even if he didn’t have final say on signing him (and he didn’t) he must have given a nod to it.

 

I think he will be fine overall. Solid.

 

If at the end of the season we can say that about the line overall I will be happy. But I have doubts. 

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Feel like Curl is gonna have a breakout year and we're gonna end up losing him in FA.

 

I'd love to get a long term deal with him now.

I think they drafted Martin to replace him - Don’t think they can pay him big and pay Sweat and, maybe, Young plus put some more dollars into the O’line.

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Warhead36

Warhead36

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

You are not alone. The rage of using hurry up has almost come and gone and yet here we are still clamoring to try it. Heck even late in blowouts our coaches would refuse to use it. The broadcast team would often chime in we "better get moving".  Now the rage is sneaking in a final possession at the end of the half instead. At least we call defensive timeouts to try to get the ball back.

 

I remember Shanahan would use to in early blowouts and get a quick score, and then immediately abandon it.  Only ever used out of desperation; never to put a defense and pass rush on their heels by stopping the endless fresh subs on our woeful gassed OL.

You need a good QB to be able to run no huddle effectively with any consistency.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Just went back and checked their contracts, Wylie is 8 million per year and Taylor is 20 million per year, so the ratio is actually closer to a third of the cost.  For two players with basically identical AV production per season.  But there is more to it.  The major advantage Taylor has over Wylie is that he never missed snaps. But that also means his 7 AV per year comes on 1100 snaps, whereas Wylie's is coming on less than 900.

 

Snap to snap, Wylie is a better player than him.  And he is massively cheaper.  That difference in salary is a pedigree tax, and that's why I'm not sweating our OLs total lack of pedigree.  Kind of surprised that the Chiefs haven't gotten more heat for the way they mishandled their OL this off-season.  They had a valuable player walk out of the door to one of their main rivals, and paid a premium to replace Wylie with a more stable but likely worse player.

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Conn

Conn

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Paul getting 1st team reps was inevitable, the belief in Charles from the coaches was bewildering. Seeing Paul muscle in on those snaps so early in camp is great, though. Won’t be long until he wins the most predictable and anticlimactic position battle in recent history 

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
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5 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

How fast was he driving for a judge to reject 8 days in jail from the prosecution? Or is the judge looking to make an example of an NFL player? 

This was the incident in which Everett crashed and his passenger, his girlfriend, was killed. Davis was driving a car just ahead of Everett. Sounds like they might have been street racing.

 

Not sure of speeds but someone being killed rightly has the judge in a mood to not just nod this one through. 

 

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Tress Is The Way

Tress Is The Way

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

This was the incident in which Everett crashed and his passenger, his girlfriend, was killed. Sounds like they might have been street racing.

 

Not sure of speeds but someone being killed rightly has the judge in a mood to not just nod this one through. 

 

From what I've read he was doing 85, anything over 80 in Virginia is automatically reckless driving. The death doesn't help the case at all.  Just goes to show don't be a bone head and respect the laws. I live in PA and I do 85 to work every morning on the interstate, but PA is very lax on speeding. That's just keeping with the flow of traffic.

Edited by Tress Is The Way
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Llevron

Llevron

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, MartinC said:

This was the incident in which Everett crashed and his passenger, his girlfriend, was killed. Davis was driving a car just ahead of Everett. Sounds like they might have been street racing.

 

Not sure of speeds but someone being killed rightly has the judge in a mood to not just nod this one through. 

 

 

Oh well thats completely different than what I was talking about 

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
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1 minute ago, Tress Is The Way said:

From what I've read he was doing 85, anything over 80 in Virginia is automatically reckless driving. The death doesn't help the case at all. 

Over 85 is criminal speeding in Arizona. In other news it’s also around the average speed of traffic on I-10.

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