2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[NewCliche21]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

I know it's just one game and drops are part of the passing game but does anyone else wonder if losing EB has had an effect on the Chiefs?   

 

They seemed undisiplined and not focused.

 

 

 

I think that's a pretty Toney deaf assumption.

[FootballZombie]

40 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I think being without Kelce last night was obviously huge.

 

That's what I saw. Offense that ran thru its TE was missing its TE.

Kelce is so effective he can paper over their deficiencies at WR.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

I know it's just one game and drops are part of the passing game but does anyone else wonder if losing EB has had an effect on the Chiefs?   

 

They seemed undisiplined and not focused.

 

 

 

Their O line lived up to their hype on some key drives granted not the whole game.  It's one of a number of reasons that I think i want Ben Johnson albiet the Lions offense was just OK IMO last night

 

 

 

 

 

 

[actorguy1]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Sheehan, not that his prediction matters but he predicts this team goes 8-8-1.  And the Eagles and Giants end up tied for first. 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan, not that his prediction matters but he predicts this team goes 8-8-1.  And the Eagles and Giants end up tied for first. 

 

 

 

I see he's still trying to get radio gigs in New York. A little curious where he has the Cowboys, cause I'm wondering if a division has ever had back-to-back seasons with no losing records. I'm going to guess it's never happened before.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Always A Commander Never A Captain

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I see he's still trying to get radio gigs in New York. A little curious where he has the Cowboys, cause I'm wondering if a division has ever had back-to-back seasons with no losing records. I'm going to guess it's never happened before.

 

Cowboys he had third, forgot the record he gave them.

 

Yeah I guess so for the NY teams with him.  He likes them both and he some plenty of company on that.  Both have highly pedigreed front offices at the same time.  As someone who has followed NY sports media for decades, tough for me to recall the last time that happened.

 

As to that translating to wins?  I guess will see.  there always seems to be a black cloud over the Jets.  As for the Giants, if they can play this team all the time, they'd be the Chiefs.  But will see what the do this season otherwise.  I agree with most of the national observers (personnel people talkng off the record, etc) that the Giants got now one of the smarter-better operations IMO.  And IMO certainly smarter than this team's brass.  As I've said its ironic how Rivera extolled the Bills brass when he arrived yet its really the Giants not this team that set up an operation predicated on Buffalo's operation.

 

Having said that, I've never been a big Daniel Jones guy.   Granted he has better weapons now.  I think their main wildcard is their O line can run block with the best of them but is as bad as this team maybe even worse as to their pass blocking.   Even Neal I think is their wildcard.  He sucked during his rookie season.  Granted Andrew Thomas also wasn't good his rookie season and is elite now.  But its up in the air with Neal.

 

I think the Dallas matchup for NY will be telling.  i don't have a good feel for it.  If the Giants are as good as their camp hype, they will beat Dallas.  But its impossible to know whether camp hype is meaningful until the season begins.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

That's what I saw. Offense that ran thru its TE was missing its TE.

Kelce is so effective he can paper over their deficiencies at WR.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

That's what I saw. Offense that ran thru its TE was missing its TE.

Kelce is so effective he can paper over their deficiencies at WR.

 

 

And they win anyway if Toney doesn't cause a pick-6 off a drop or catches the ball that would have put them in FG range at the end of the game.

 

It's rare where one guy basically makes enough mistakes to cost an entire team a game.  But Toney did last night.  He was absolutely horrendous.

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

Kurt Warner Sam Howell film break down:

 

Thanks for sharing this.  Kurt Warner is mesmerizing with that telestrator, almost distractingly good lines.  He's unbelievable breaking down film and reads.  Does it so well and so clearly that even dummies like me can follow along.  I love the insight he gives on how the QB can use his instincts to skip through his reads faster to take advantage of the dynamic openings in space on the other side of the field.  Stuff like that seems so next level to me that I can barely even see it when an expert is walking me through it step by step.  Blows my mind that QBs can do it while out there bouncing around in a pocket with the imminent threat of pain closing in on them.

 

I also really liked the insight Kurt gave into how our receivers can get better and sharper with their routes to improve their spacing and give Sam easier decisions and throws.  Stuff like that you don't even see on your own, but he makes it seem so simple and obvious.  It also helps me temper my expectations for our offense.  That level of detail and precision is what a Hall of Famer sees and expects, and that's what it takes to be great.  We're finally starting the process of getting good, but we're not great and it's going to take a lot of work and improvement to get there.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Their O line lived up to their hype on some key drives granted not the whole game.  It's one of a number of reasons that I think i want Ben Johnson albiet the Lions offense was just OK IMO last night

It was very good.

 

They scored a whopping 14 points on offense last night with that OL.  The Chief's defense handled them fairly well, considering they were missing one of their best pieces. They averaged 3.5 yards a rush.  They were good in pass protection, though.  

 

Not saying OL isn't really important.  It is.  But if the Lions have the second best OL in football, they still only scored 14 points.  

 

The Lions lose without the pick-6 off of a PERFECT throw from Mahomes which Toney pops up in the air.  And they probably lose again if Toney catches the first down pass in the last Chiefs drive which either puts them in, or REALLY close to FG range.  

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan, not that his prediction matters but he predicts this team goes 8-8-1.  And the Eagles and Giants end up tied for first. 

Sheehan has turned into a complete troll.  

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It was very good.

 

They scored a whopping 14 points on offense last night with that OL.  The Chief's defense handled them fairly well, considering they were missing one of their best pieces. They averaged 3.5 yards a rush.  They were good in pass protection, though.  

 

Not saying OL isn't really important.  It is.  But if the Lions have the second best OL in football, they still only scored 14 points.  

 

The Lions lose without the pick-6 off of a PERFECT throw from Mahomes which Toney pops up in the air.  And they probably lose again if Toney catches the first down pass in the last Chiefs drive which either puts them in, or REALLY close to FG range.  

 

I explained my point with some nuance.  But its was lost in the sea in your emotion.  So you can have at it. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

Nick Bolton was Wolverine last night.  Totally embarrassed David Montgomery and punked Penei Sewell too.  His dominance was my big take away from last night's game.  The Chiefs have been making some serious hay off of some of those day two and three draft choices, and didn't miss Chris Jones as much as I thought they would.  Kind of feels like Nick Bolton is the new best player on that defense, and that they are in good hands.

 

I wasn't that impressed with Ben Johnson TBH.  I thought he outsmarted himself and didn't use his best weapon in Jahmyr Gibbs enough.  The dude absolutely sizzles every single time he touches the ball, wipes out bad numbers playside, gets up field and covers ground faster than any of your other weapons, etc.  It should be easy to move the ball with a back like that.  And instead Ben Johnson is tipping his plays by trotting David Montgomery out there most of the game, telling the defense they don't need to worry about anything underneath and that it's going to be a six man protection on third down.

 

My other big take away from that game is that Detroit looked way more talented than KC.  The better and more talented team won that game, despite their many, many mistakes, and despite KC having football's Mozart at QB.  Team beats QB in this sport.  Detroit already looks like they had a monster draft class too, and all of the draftniks and analysts who crapped all over them for picking a RB and a LBer in the first round are idiots.  They absolutely killed it.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Sheehan has turned into a complete troll.  

 

I don't know if its trolling.  He's piggy banking off of hipster takes.  The Jets for obvious reasons are hyped for a change.  The Giants not as much but some hipster types are on that team, too.

 

I don't know if I agree or not.  In theory the Jets are better certainly.  As for the Giants, I think they killed it this off season.  But we won't know until we know.  And while I am not as down as some on this thread are on Daniel Jones.  I also think Jones puts a ceiling on that team. 

 

Like this team, the Giants feel like a wildcard for the exact same reason.  Their O line to me can sink them.  Their O line has a higher ceiiling than this team IMO but I can also see it imploding.  Dallas should be a good test for them.  Will see.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 Detroit already looks like they had a monster draft class too, and all of the draftniks and analysts who crapped all over them for picking a RB and a LBer in the first round are idiots.  They absolutely killed it.

 

Agree.  That's a stacked and balanced team on both sides of the ball.  Gibbs and Campbell and Laporta and Branch were 4 of my favorite players in that draft, 2 of whom made my top 20 favorite players in the draft list we compiled. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

Oh and also wanted to say Jawann Taylor will cost the Chiefs 20 million a year for at least the next three seasons.  He was cheating his ass off, tipping their plays, and still got completely dominated in Pass Pro.  He was a disaster.

 

That is the ****ing pool we'd have been swimming in if we'd gone chasing after the top tier OTs in free agency last winter/spring.  McGlinchey and Taylor have pedigree but they are horrendously overpriced and they are not appreciably better than Wylie.  Sometimes the market just isn't there, and the best option is just to bide your time with an affordble stopgaps until better opportunities come along.  We made the right call, and the Chiefs made a hash out of their OL this off-season.  Their receiver corps has vastly deteriorated too, and I can't believe they are stuck betting so heavily on Kadarius Toney.  They're an excellent organization with a great coach, a genius QB, and a GOAT tight end, but they don't look good right now.  They look like they need to reload in order to keep their championship window open.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I explained my point with some nuance.  But its was lost in the sea in your emotion.  So you can have at it. 

I don't know what I'm having at it. That the Lions OL is very good but the offense was very "meh" as a whole? What do you want Ben Johnson for?  

 

I have literally no emotion about this at all.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't know if its trolling.

Picking a tie for the division and the Commanders having a tie is trolling.  

 

The statistical probability of that happening is so minimal, it's almost zero.

 

He's carnival barking, trying to be entertaining and interesting because his radio show is on the absolute second-tier radio station.  

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Picking a tie for the division and the Commanders having a tie is trolling.  

 

 

He picked a tie last year and was right so he's feeling confident that he will be right again.   Predicting a tie is trolling?  I guess we have a different definition of the word.

 

As for the division, he thinks those two teams end up with the same record but Eagles win the tie breaker.  i didn't find that trolling either.  I don't agree that it happens but I don't find it to be trolling. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[samy316]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Picking a tie for the division and the Commanders having a tie is trolling.  

 

The statistical probability of that happening is so minimal, it's almost zero.

 

He's carnival barking, trying to be entertaining and interesting because his radio show is on the absolute second-tier radio station.  

I’m not sure if that’s considered trolling.  We’re right in that 8-9 win range.  Would it surprise anyone if we did go 8-8-1 again?  What if we went 7-9-1?  It’s not that far fetched.  Sheehan isn’t a troll radio host.  You can say that about a lot of other radio hosts, but I don’t think Sheehan qualifies.  He might go a little overboard with his Shanahan takes, and his love for Kirk Cousins, but for the most part he’s pretty tame and levelheaded as far as radio hosts go.  Not too negative, and not too positive. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by samy316

[Warhead36]

Giants are getting overrated big time. They were fortunate to win as many games as they did last year and their style of play leads to thin margin of error. They are due big time regression. 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't know what I'm having at it. That the Lions OL is very good but the offense was very "meh" as a whole? What do you want Ben Johnson for?  

 

I have literally no emotion about this at all.  

 

Your post started with sarcasm directed at my post, and yeah sarcasm is emotionally based.

 

I couched my opinion, including what I said about Ben Johnson.  I think I was clear enough. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

19 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Oh and also wanted to say Jawann Taylor will cost the Chiefs 20 million a year for at least the next three seasons.  He was cheating his ass off, tipping their plays, and still got completely dominated in Pass Pro.  He was a disaster.

 

That is the ****ing pool we'd have been swimming in if we'd gone chasing after the top tier OTs in free agency last winter/spring.  McGlinchey and Taylor have pedigree but they are horrendously overpriced and they are not appreciably better than Wylie.  Sometimes the market just isn't there, and the best option is just to bide your time with an affordble stopgaps until better opportunities come along.  We made the right call, and the Chiefs made a hash out of their OL this off-season.  Their receiver corps has vastly deteriorated too, and I can't believe they are stuck betting so heavily on Kadarius Toney.  They're an excellent organization with a great coach, a genius QB, and a GOAT tight end, but they don't look good right now.  They look like they need to reload in order to keep their championship window open.

Yeah, Donovan Smith was really bad too.  I saw one play where Hutch spun twice and Smith just fell tot he ground.  

[Going Commando]

On 9/7/2023 at 9:16 AM, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

RAS does get some wrong numbers at times, but it looks like their numbers are slower than Ricky's real times?

 

 

Here are the numbers from Ricky's pro day:

 

I find it funny that Thuney's best comparison according to mockdraftable is our 4th rounder Braeden Daniels.

 

Oh yeah you're right.  I was the one looking at the wrong number on the L drill.  I think I had Dalton Wagner's time in my mind instead.  But the 10 yard split number Kent Lee Platte used is much faster than the real number of 1.81, which is actually a little disappointing because it's slower than Nick Gates's 10 yard split.  Platte also uses a 20 yard split number that I don't see tracked anywhere else.  AFAIK, the 40 and 10 times are the only ones that are officially recorded and kept.

 

It spooked me because I wasn't the biggest fan of Ricky's college film and had kind of banked a lot of faith on that super high RAS.  But from the sounds of it, Stromberg showed really well in camp and he is on track to eventually be a starter.  So hopefully it doesn't really matter if Stromberg is slower than expected.

 

Yeah I noticed that Braeden Daniels comparison on Thuney's chart too.  They are each other's closest spider chart matches, with Joel Bitonio in there at #2.  Those are heartening comparisons.  There is no way Braeden will be as good as them as a rookie, he is just so much more raw than they were.  But if there is any chance he's got their upside, then we need to let things play out with him.  I don't think Braeden Daniels was somebody that they just kind of backed into after all of the options they liked better were gone.  I remember watching that war room video the team released about their draft picks.  In the moment when the Daniels pick came up, they seemed really intentional about picking him and that there was a strong pre-existing consensus to get him at that spot.  That suggested to me that they have a plan for him that they like.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Giants are getting overrated big time. They were fortunate to win as many games as they did last year and their style of play leads to thin margin of error. They are due big time regression. 

 

While I am not as hyped about them as @Koolblue13 who is predicting they win the division or as hyped as Sheehan who is predicting they tie for it.

 

I like their off season the best in the division.  They got a smart FO and coaching staff so I think they are in good hands.

 

As for this season, tough call for me.  they got four wildcards IMO.

 

A.  Daniel Jones?  He was better last year.  Supposedly he looks good this off season.  But does he climb some more or is he just mediocre at best?

 

B.  Their O line.  They are young and have good draft pedigree.  Thomas is a stud.  JMS looked good in the preseason.  But was Neal a struggiling rookie who will improve or does he just suck?  I don't know.

 

C.  They worship Waller.  He's already their conquering hero judging by preseasom hype.  Named captain, etc.  But does he stay healthy?

 

D.  They think they killed it in the draft.  4 starters.  2 rotational guys. etc. But does the preseason extend to the regular season?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

How is it trolling or a hot take to pick us last in the division?

 

I’m very hopeful about the future of this franchise, but that hope has zippy to do with Ron Rivera and the Marty’s.  It’s almost a foregone conclusion that this brain trust is on its last legs.  They aren’t god awful as some here portray, but it’s a far leap to suggest they are on par with FO’s like Philly or NY.

 

I understand not wanting to throw in the towel before the season even starts.  I am also hopeful they perform better than the pundits expect.  I hope we get some good mojo from new ownership, get the right bounces, and evade the big injuries to have a fun season.  

Best case scenario, Sam proves he’s the guy and the team competes for and/or squeaks into a Wild card.  Enough to enjoy the season and hope for the future, while Harris and the gang hire the best of the best to run the FO and coach the team moving forward.