2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[HigSkin]

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by HigSkin

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim latest podcast.

 

A. With pads passing game so far up and down.  run game looks good.

 

B.  Howell was bad on Saturday.  Better on Monday (but I get the vibe from others it was a rough day, too but not as rough as Saturday) yesterday he was better.

 

C.  The team likes how Howell handles himself, he's a hard worker

 

D. He referenced Bram apparently has a man crush on Andre Jones.  Good camp, showcasing a wicked spin move   I liked Jones personally when I watched some of his games after we drafted him, he popped more to me than KJ Henry.  Speaking of Henry not much mentions of him during this camp I've noticed.  

 

E.  Mason Brooks, Keim referenced 3 reps where he lost 2 of them but on the one he won he stoned Obada.  He likes him but he's not sure he makes the roster.

 

F.  Not much mention of Chris Paul aside of getting first team reps, and he mentioned him losing a rep forgetting to whom.  My point is I don't have a vibe if he's having a good camp or not but I do get the vibe that Charles is having a bad camp so that should help Paul.

 

G. He referenced Daniels not having the best camp.  There was anohter podcaster who made the point a bit stronger than Keim but forgetting whom.

 

H.  He likes how Cosmi looks inside

 

I. K. Hudson struggiling some covering backs

 

J. Mentioned it could be St. Juste and Fuller starting often at outsider corner.  They like Forbes.  But like Fuller on the outside and St. Juste having a big camp.  But I gather they'd interchange them. 

 

H.  Secondary good at disguising coverages, citing Quan Martin on that front

 

I. Bates and Cole Turner looked good on blitz pickups.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim latest podcast.

 

A. With pads passing game so far up and down.  run game looks good.

 

B.  Howell was bad on Saturday.  Better on Monday (but I get the vibe from others it was a rough day, too but not as rough as Saturday) yesterday he was better.

 

C.  The team likes how Howell handles himself, he's a hard worker

 

D. Bram apparently has a man crush on Andre Jones.  Good camp, wicked spin move   I liked Jones personally when I watched some of his games after we drafted him, he popped more to me than KJ Henry.  Speaking of Henry not much mentions of him during this camp I've noticed.  

 

E.  Mason Brooks, Keim referenced 3 reps where he lost 2 of them but on the one he won he stoned Obada.  He likes him but he's not sure he makes the roster.

 

F.  Not much mention of Chris Paul aside of getting first team reps, and he mentioned him losing a rep forgetting to whom.  My point is I don't have a vibe if he's having a good camp or not but I do get the vibe that Charles is having a bad camp so that should help Paul.

 

G. He referenced Daniels not having the best camp.  There was anohter podcaster who made the point a bit stronger than Keim but forgetting whom.

 

H.  He likes how Cosmi looks inside

 

I. K. Hudson struggiling some covering backs

 

J. Mentioned it coulkd be St. Juste and Fuller starting often at outsider corner.  They like Forbes.  But like Fuller on the outside and St. Juste having a big camp.  But I gather they'd interchange them. 

 

H.  Secondary good at disguising coverages, citing Quan Martin on that front

 

I. Bates and Cole Turner looked good on blitz pickups.

 

 

I sure hope some of the draft picks besides the top two start standing out more as the get comfortable.

Listening to this earlier made me feel less optimistic of our young OL other than Cosmi.

Hudson needs to step it up. He was getting so many early accolades, especially using his speed in coverage

[Skinsinparadise]

From Selby who works for the team yesterday's report, positive mention of Paul, so that's good.

 

https://www.commanders.com/news/training-camp-notebook-day-7-commanders-defense-dominates-in-second-day-of-pad

 

- Forbes had another solid day, showing why the Commanders were justified in taking him with their first-round pick. His length has been particularly useful, and that was the case during a 3-on-3 drill between receivers and defensive backs. Zion Bowens had Forbes beat deep down the right sideline, but the rookie cornerback used his 6-foot frame to make up the lost ground and bat the ball away from the undrafted rookie.

 

-- It was a mostly uneven day for Howell and the rest of the quarterbacks, but the day did start off well enough for Howell with completions to Brian Robinson, Curtis Samuel, Dax Milne and Antonio Gibson.

 

-- Chris Paul got all the reps at starting left guard today as Saahdiq Charles dealt with a calf injury that kept him out of team drills. Coach Ron Rivera said yesterday that the coaches wanted to get Paul, as well as some of the other backups, some time against the defensive starters. The 2022 seventh-round pick certainly got that today, and he managed to hold his own against the likes of Jonathan Allen.

 

 

The defense dominated for most of the day, and the players were riding a wave of energy throughout the morning. Montez Sweat was jawing at the offense as they dealt with some issues in the huddle, and Jamin Davis joined Cody Barton in a celebration after the defense stuffed a run play.

-- A couple of the Commanders' depth players had some standout plays on Wednesday. Christian Holmes grabbed his second pick of camp during 7-on-7 drills, and Jeremy Reaves got a pass breakup that got some applause from the fans. On the defensive line, James Smith-Williams blew up a run play for a TFL.

 

-- The defensive line has bottled up Washington's attempts at running the ball for most of camp, but the backs managed to work their way through the front for positive plays. Sixth-round pick Chris Rodriguez stood out at multiple points of practice and managed to run through the defense untouched for a gain of about 10 yards. Robinson also managed to power through the unit for similar yardage.

 

-- Newcomer Derrick Gore has already worked himself into the rotation and ran hard on the snaps he got during 11-on-11 periods. He powered through contact during red zone drills and finished the play in the end zone.

 

-- Referees were out at practice for the first time this offseason. Rivera wanted the players to view their presence as an opportunity to ask questions about what they look for on certain penalties and work on their techniques. The flags came out a few times on Wednesday, mostly for holding and false start issues. A touchdown from Dyami Brown was also nullified because of an illegal touching period. Brown made the catch, but he had stepped out of bounds on the play and was the first player to touch the ball.

 

-- A lot has been made about how well the defensive front works together, and there have been examples of that throughout camp. During one of the first 11-on-11 periods of the day, Daron Payne and Sweat executed a twist that resulted in both Sam Cosmi and Andrew Wylie getting knocked back near the quarterback. After the play was over, the two celebrated because of how well their move was executed.

 

-- Curtis Samuel hasn't been mentioned much this training camp period, but he has been active with a nice catch in traffic during 7-on-7 drills. Rivera also spoke about Samuel's fit in the offense and how his versatility can work in the scheme.

"I think it fits in very well. Go back and get an opportunity to look at the stuff that they did in Kansas City and look at how creative and inventive they have been over the years with the receivers that they've had. Everything from running the jet sweeps to going vertical to working underneath, and the coverages against the coverages. You know, it's about getting the ball into the hands as quick as possible in as much space as possible, allowing these guys to make plays."

 

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

I sure hope some of the draft picks besides the top two start standing out more as the get comfortable.

Listening to this earlier made me feel less optimistic of our young OL other than Cosmi.

Hudson needs to step it up. He was getting so many early accolades, especially using his speed in coverage

 

He's a bit on the lighter size.  Some here goofing on Pace's size.  But Pace is 10 pounds heavier than Hudson.   My point is these big backs might not be the easiest for him to tackle in space considering they are his size or bigger.

 

 

[KDawg]

I hope Forbes starts at corner. His ballhawk mentality and draft status make it so he should be out there as much as possible. 

[bowhunter]

It seems that in previous years, practices would often end with a kicker competition. So far, all I remember reading was about a week ago when both went 5-5. Have I missed anything on that front?

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

I think the ceiling for the line is higher than people realize as they view the line struggling in it's infancy.  I don't look at a line comprised of a bunch of UDFAs and seventh round picks and see only it's lack of pedigree.  I see that Cosmi and Paul have a 1.68 and 1.71 10 yard split respectively, which is 99 and 94 percentile for IOLs.  

 

I think that's the best hope, the guards hitting their ceiling.  But tough to count on either for different reasons.  It's  a wildcard.  I watched Paul after we drafted him and liked him.  But we don't know if he's good, yet.   And Cosmi needs to to stay healthy otherwise we likely will see Charles play plenty at the RG spot.  

 

But if Cosmi stays healthy, and Paul develops that's the best shot for those here who say "told you so", the O line was fine.  If i banked on all the ifs and buts working out for Paul and Cosmi, I'd be with the small yet vocal crowd here who think the O line will be OK.   I've just seen in the past the ifs and buts often don't work out so I've become more cynical on that especially when it comes to the O line. 

 

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Basically playing four guys at new spots since Cosmi has kicked inside.  Don't care if all four guys were former Pro-Bowlers, that kind of turnover takes a lot of time to iron out. 

 

Agree with this, they shoud get better over time.

 

Even though I am VERY critical of the job Rivera did for the O line.  I think i am pretty measured in my expectations.  I am not expecting this O line to be a train wreck where we bemoan it game after game.  I think the Giants games last year sum up my fear for this season.  Big games against big time D lines -- unfortunately our division foes have big time D lines -- in critical moments in critical games the O line will get overwhelmed by good D lines just like is happening in camp. 

 

And that will ensure no playoffs.  But not in the form of a train wreck season like most of the national pundits expect.  I think we got 8-9 coming again.  O line IMO will be bad enough in critical games to keep us again out of the playoffs.  But we will have tease moments this season just like the other seasons under Ron.

 

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

I see Leno and Wylie as above average starting linemen that we got for major bargain contracts because they were picked 246 and undrafted, respectively. 

 

I think both are average to maybe slightly below average.  But will see.

 

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

And in Gates I see a decent swing lineman who can bring some size and stability to a unit whose primary issue the past two years was a lack of stability at C.  And behind him we have two interesting options to hedge against the same kind of disastrous injuries that killed us the year before.

 

I think they'll eventually be fine once they gel.  And I think Howell will get comfortable behind them, especially as he gets better at diagnosing coverages and pressures over the course of the season.

 

I think Gates also so so.  If you judge him by the same metrics you judge Wylie on, you wouldn't think too highly of him.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

50 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I am very happy Paul is getting more looks. I'd be happier if it was because he has outplayed Charles over Charles was injured. I healthy Charles is still going to be an asset to our team whether starter or backup.

I'm not wishing the guy harm, but they keep shoving him out front, knowing that he stinks and will be injured eventually. Flush the bust and let Paul get comfy.

[DWinzit]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He's a bit on the lighter size.  Some here goofing on Pace's size.  But Pace is 10 pounds heavier than Hudson.   My point is these big backs might not be the easiest for him to tackle in space considering they are his size or bigger.

 

True, but that should still allow him to be decent in coverage for which they are stating he is struggling in that area. That is a problem. I am beginning to be conerned with the LBs more than I was. Barton is going to need to be steller if Hudson is struggling and speedy is looking at jail time.

I'd sure feel better with Pace over an Eifler or even Mayo

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I hope Forbes starts at corner. His ballhawk mentality and draft status make it so he should be out there as much as possible. 

I was listening to Standig's last podcast yesterday.  He was talking to Sam Fortier, and one thing they discussed was how poorly (at times) the coaches used the players they have.  The examples they gave were it took 6 weeks to figure out they needed to move Landon Collins to LB, and maybe one or two others I'm forgetting.  

 

I think this is a point well made by the two of them.  The coaches seem to get stuck on what they want to do, and don't trust their eyes as to what they should do.  

 

I think the big questions this year are at a few obvious spots, probably most notably LG where Charles is battling Paul.  It's clear as day they WANT Charles to win that job, but he doesn't appear to be really distinguishing himself (yet).  Paul, by all accounts, looked pretty good yesterday.  He should get more reps, and get the opportunity to start at LG.  But are the coaches going to force Charles in there for several weeks?

 

Figuring out what to do with the secondary is also important.  Who plays where is almost as important (maybe more so?) as who makes the roster.  

 

Forbes starting is also a decision.  I think he is going to start, but that bumps St. Juste inside.  Is that going to work?  Is there somebody else who's better suited to play the inside spot instead of St. Juste?  Would it be better to rotate St. Juste in for Fuller/Forbes to keep them fresh and play somebody else inside?  I dunno.  

 

But I'm pretty sure they're going to force St. Juste inside without really evaluating other options, and see what happens.  

 

Another question: Diyami Brown seems to be having a heck of an off-season.   Is there a world where he can earn more playing time, or is he just completely stuck at #4 no matter what, with maybe 5-10 snaps a game? Could he grab a few snaps from Samuel?

 

I'd like to think the coaching staff can:

 

1. Select the best 53 players to the active roster who they have the availability to select and

2. Play the best players who have earned the spots to give them the best chance of winning.

 

I'm honestly not sure about #2.  

 

#1, I think there are going to be some very interesting cuts this year along the OL and DL specifically.  Because they drafted 2 OL in the 3rd and 4th round who don't seem to be able to play but they aren't going to cut.  

 

The one piece of good news is unless Ron/Martin are completely bonkers, they'll only carry 2 QBs, which gives them an extra spot.  I'm sure they can get Fromm to the practice squad, or pick up the backup QB from Centerville HS to put on the practice squad who can probably do just as well.  

 

 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I was listening to Standig's last podcast yesterday.  He was talking to Sam Fortier, and one thing they discussed was how poorly (at times) the coaches used the players they have.  The examples they gave were it took 6 weeks to figure out they needed to move Landon Collins to LB, and maybe one or two others I'm forgetting.  

 

I think this is a point well made by the two of them.  The coaches seem to get stuck on what they want to do, and don't trust their eyes as to what they should do.  

 

I think the big questions this year are at a few obvious spots, probably most notably LG where Charles is battling Paul.  It's clear as day they WANT Charles to win that job, but he doesn't appear to be really distinguishing himself (yet).  Paul, by all accounts, looked pretty good yesterday.  He should get more reps, and get the opportunity to start at LG.  But are the coaches going to force Charles in there for several weeks?

 

Figuring out what to do with the secondary is also important.  Who plays where is almost as important (maybe more so?) as who makes the roster.  

 

Forbes starting is also a decision.  I think he is going to start, but that bumps St. Juste inside.  Is that going to work?  Is there somebody else who's better suited to play the inside spot instead of St. Juste?  Would it be better to rotate St. Juste in for Fuller/Forbes to keep them fresh and play somebody else inside?  I dunno.  

 

But I'm pretty sure they're going to force St. Juste inside without really evaluating other options, and see what happens.  

 

Another question: Diyami Brown seems to be having a heck of an off-season.   Is there a world where he can earn more playing time, or is he just completely stuck at #4 no matter what, with maybe 5-10 snaps a game? Could he grab a few snaps from Samuel?

 

I'd like to think the coaching staff can:

 

1. Select the best 53 players to the active roster who they have the availability to select and

2. Play the best players who have earned the spots to give them the best chance of winning.

 

I'm honestly not sure about #2.  

 

#1, I think there are going to be some very interesting cuts this year along the OL and DL specifically.  Because they drafted 2 OL in the 3rd and 4th round who don't seem to be able to play but they aren't going to cut.  

 

The one piece of good news is unless Ron/Martin are completely bonkers, they'll only carry 2 QBs, which gives them an extra spot.  I'm sure they can get Fromm to the practice squad, or pick up the backup QB from Centerville HS to put on the practice squad who can probably do just as well.  

 

 

 

The #4 receiver in this offense will see a lot more than 5-10 snaps/game.

 

We will be in 10 personnel quite a bit.

 

Brown is going to be better this year. Third year receiver who was a vert threat in college AND his college QB is throwing him the ball. Watch out for him. 

 

The logjam at corner is a very good reason to move one for draft assets. We won't. But we should be exploring it... even if we don't pull the trigger. 

 

Of course, injuries are a thing and that can bite us in the ass as well. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 hours ago, redskinss said:

 

It's almost as if they're trying to will it into existence so they can say, see I told ya so.

This is one of those takes we see over the years that I never really get.

 

Particularly right now, while the entire fanbase is the happiest and hopeful it’s been in decades.

 

Being pessimistic doesn’t equate to ‘wanting’ poor results.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

26 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

The #4 receiver in this offense will see a lot more than 5-10 snaps/game.

 

We will be in 10 personnel quite a bit.

 

Brown is going to be better this year. Third year receiver who was a vert threat in college AND his college QB is throwing him the ball. Watch out for him. 

 

The logjam at corner is a very good reason to move one for draft assets. We won't. But we should be exploring it... even if we don't pull the trigger. 

 

Of course, injuries are a thing and that can bite us in the ass as well. 

We needed to draft a CB early because BSJ is injury prone.  He's got a scary concussion history too.  After the top 3 CBs, there really isn't much depth.  I wouldn't trade either of the CBs since this is Fuller's last year here anyways most likely as he is a pending FA.

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

True, but that should still allow him to be decent in coverage for which they are stating he is struggling in that area. That is a problem. I am beginning to be conerned with the LBs more than I was. Barton is going to need to be steller if Hudson is struggling and speedy is looking at jail time.

I'd sure feel better with Pace over an Eifler or even Mayo

 

Hearing a lot of good things about Barton.  Heard some good things about Hudson, too, Keim just pointed out covering backs in the flat he's struggled with some. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

We needed to draft a CB early because BSJ is injury prone.  He's got a scary concussion history too.  After the top 3 CBs, there really isn't much depth.  I wouldn't trade either of the CBs since this is Fuller's last year here anyways most likely as he is a pending FA.

We needed to draft a lot of things due to injuries/skill issues.

 

We went with the guy they had highest on their board. That’s fine.

 

But part of building a team is risk assessment and clearing log jams by acquiring assets for future building. 
 

Maybe this isn’t the scenario to do it. But we should always give it a shot.

[redskinss]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is one of those takes we see over the years that I never really get.

 

Particularly right now, while the entire fanbase is the happiest and hopeful it’s been in decades.

 

Being pessimistic doesn’t equate to ‘wanting’ poor results.

Yeah I don't really believe people want poor results and I know if we have success they'll be ecstatic like the rest of us.

Just feels like there's something more there sometimes maybe subconsciously.

[MartinC]

41 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I was listening to Standig's last podcast yesterday.  He was talking to Sam Fortier, and one thing they discussed was how poorly (at times) the coaches used the players they have.  The examples they gave were it took 6 weeks to figure out they needed to move Landon Collins to LB, and maybe one or two others I'm forgetting.  

 

 

When pretty much everyone on ES was saying before the season that Collins should be moved to LB. It’s not like you had to be a genius to see it was the obvious move. 
 

The story seemed to be Collins was resisting the move - which implies coaches also saw the obvious but didn’t force the move because the player didn’t want to make it. 
 

That’s a failure of decision making. Making tough or unpopular decisions which help the organization is a responsibility that comes with senior roles. Put on your big boy pants and do what needs to be done.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I get that the team wants to have a veteran pipeline where backups work hard knowing they'll get a shot next year after the veteran leaves. But still, something needs to be figured out here.

 

Fuller and St Juste outside, ok. We'll be in Nickel mostly, so Forbes will still get 70% of the snaps when St Juste moves inside. But Why not take Fuller off the field for some of this and have Quan actually play his position as a Nickel?

 

I did read somewhere that we might be in a Dime defense on occasion? 3 corners and 3 safeties, with Kam Curl as the Buffalo and St Juste as the other Nickel? That sounds awesome.

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Yeah I don't really believe people want poor results and I know if we have success they'll be ecstatic like the rest of us.

Just feels like there's something more there sometimes maybe subconsciously.

I want a top 3 pick or a playoff run and anything in between sucks, except for the small player progression victories.

 

I don't think we're a superbowl contender, so top 3 pick would be the best outcome.

 

Doesn't make me pessimistic. Makes me hopeful for the future.

1 minute ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

I get that the team wants to have a veteran pipeline where backups work hard knowing they'll get a shot next year after the veteran leaves. But still, something needs to be figured out here.

 

Fuller and St Juste outside, ok. We'll be in Nickel mostly, so Forbes will still get 70% of the snaps when St Juste moves inside. But Why not take Fuller off the field for some of this and have Quan actually play his position as a Nickel?

 

I did read somewhere that we might be in a Dime defense on occasion? 3 corners and 3 safeties, with Kam Curl as the Buffalo and St Juste as the other Nickel? That sounds awesome.

I think we'll see a lot of that. 

 

I also think we'll see more 5-1-5 coverages.

[Mr. Sinister]

Anybody been looking at Dyami Brown? Curious to hear how he's improved. Hoping for him to have a big year 3

[Tress Is The Way]

Just now, Mr. Sinister said:

Anybody been looking at Dyami Brown? Curious to hear how he's improved. Hoping for him to have a big year 3

He's been making plays thus far in camp, helps that his college QB is throwing to him lol