2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Captain Wiggles]

 

Bummer 😒

[dyst]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

Would be pretty surprised if the guy who helped coach Mahomes for 4 years struggles with this concept. Mahomes has to be one of the most “set him up to succeed but let him be himself when he needs to break the rules” QBs I’ve ever seen. 

You’ll have to forgive me, I still have Snyder PTSD.

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, dyst said:

You’ll have to forgive me, I still have Snyder PTSD.

Oh we all do, and who knows how this’ll turn out. That’s just one particular flaw I’d be surprised to find out Bieniemy has. But you never know, he could be a control freak in that regard. Clearly runs a tight ship 

[Skinsinparadise]

Caught Logan Paulsen just now on 106.7 but missed some of it.  He's typically the most optimistic in the bunch covering camp but he's a good listen.

 

A. Touting the secondary, Curl, St. Juste. Keim was hyped today about those two as well. 

 

B.  KJ Henry and Andre Jones he thinks have not popped enough yet to break into the lineup as backups, thinks they start on special teams.  Part of that is he likes the current veteran backups

 

C.   Howell up and down efficiency.  But he's not worried, the defense is really good.  But give him time to develop

 

D.  Said Brian Robinson as a pass catcher has been great, really strong camp from him.  It was either Logan Paulsen or someone else a few days ago I recall saying something about they think they might want to keep Robinson's emergence as a pass catcher below the radar because its likely a major feature to the season.   In the one practice I watched, that was easy to see.  As i mentioned Robinson's feature as a pass catcher reminded me of the camp where I saw Kirk throwing to Chris Thompson a zillion times which became a staple in their offense that year.

 

E.  D line looks great.  Most of the TEs and WRs look good.  Secondary looks good.

 

F.  Leno's been good.  Ditto Gates.  Cosmi has flashed but inconsistent.  Wylie is up and down. As for S. Charles he's not sold he's the guy, Charles might supplant him of Charles doesn't ascend.  The irony about that is Leno and Gates are the two in this lineup with the best reps as pass protectors including by the infamous PFF. 

 

G. Curtis Hodges is a really good route runner.  But he needs to finish at the catch point.   Hodges runs more varied routes than Cole Turner but Turner is better at making the catches. 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

D.  Said Brian Robinson as a pass catcher has been great, really strong camp from him.  It was either Logan Paulsen or someone else a few days ago I recall saying something about they think they might want to keep Robinson's emergence as a pass catcher below the radar because its likely a major feature to the season.   In the one practice I watched, that was easy to see.  As i mentioned Robinson's feature as a pass catcher reminded me of the camp where I saw Kirk throwing to Chris Thompson a zillion times which became a staple in their offense that year.

 

I said yesterday that Bates could see an expanded passing role from opportunity cost of always being on the field and leaking out after helping to block. I'd suppose you can say the same for the RB group as well. With the problems our oline are probably going to have, backs making themselves available could be a big part of the O as well.

 

It won't matter that Bates can't move and catch like Hodges or Turner, or that B-Rob isn't the former WR Gibby is, the opportunity will be there for the guys on the field the most.

Edited July 31, 2023 by FootballZombie

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I said yesterday that Bates could see an expanded passing role from opportunity cost of always being on the field and leaking out after helping to block. I'd suppose you can say the same for the RB group as well. With the problems our oline are probably going to have, backs making themselves available could be a big part of the O as well.

 

It won't matter that Bates can't move and catch like Hodges or Turner, or that B-Rob isn't the former WR Gibby is, the opportunity will be there for the guys on the field the most.

 

Looks like the TEs and RBs will catch a lot of balls.    Bates can catch more this season.  I get the point he's their best blocker and they will need him on the field.  

[DWinzit]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Looks like the TEs and RBs will catch a lot of balls.    Bates can catch more this season.  I get the point he's their best blocker and they will need him on the field.  

Yes, looks like Bates, Turner and Thomas will all see significant play time. The questions are can Hodges be active too and how do they spread the ball around?

There are so many WR's, RB's and TEs that are going to want the ball. Even though we do not have a star TE, RB or QB, it sure feels good having all of these talented weapons.

It's been a long time

[Skinsinparadise]

 

7 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yes, looks like Bates, Turner and Thomas will all see significant play time. The questions are can Hodges be active too and how do they spread the ball around?

There are so many WR's, RB's and TEs that are going to want the ball. Even though we do not have a star TE, RB or QB, it sure feels good having all of these talented weapons.

It's been a long time

 

Am guessing yes as for Hodges considering they've run some 4 TE sets.

[757SeanTaylor21]

Hey @Skinsinparadise when you were at camp, how did the tempo/structure look differently than how it was under Scott turner? I remember you mentioning how it seemed lethargic/lazy in a nutshell with a slow tempo

[Conn]

We’ll never know what this offense could have been with Swiss army chainsaw Armani Rogers, or as I call him Weapon X*
 

 

 

 

*not to be confused with the infamous mutant Weapon X, obviously, or he wouldn’t keep ending up on IR

Edited July 31, 2023 by Conn

[Fan since a Fetus]

I would love to see B Rob out in space crushing some corners. He did a couple of times last year, but not enough. 

[Conn]

Just now, Fan since a Fetus said:

I would love to see B Rob out in space crushing some corners. He did a couple of times last year, but not enough. 

 

100% agreed. It’s a good way to compensate for not having much in the way of true explosiveness out of the backfield—let your brawlers get a full speed route going before catching the ball and then lower their shoulder. Derrick Henry has had seasons as one of the leagues most efficient players in YAC for this very reason (though Robinson is no Henry, he’s a pale imitation and that can work just fine) 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Yeesss, coaches, embrace it. Promote Paul to 1st string LG over Charles!

 

Going to feel better about the OL after that. Still saying they could wind up being an OK unit this season.

[Chris 44]

5 minutes ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

I would love to see B Rob out in space crushing some corners. He did a couple of times last year, but not enough. 

Was watching podcast "locked on commanders" not sure of hosts name but it was from TC. He was gushing over B Robs speed. Said he looks much faster than last year (kind of to be expected after being shot) but still to your point about getting him out in space.

[Skinsfan1311]

35 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Was watching podcast "locked on commanders" not sure of hosts name but it was from TC. He was gushing over B Robs speed. Said he looks much faster than last year (kind of to be expected after being shot) but still to your point about getting him out in space.

I noticed that at TC on Saturday.  Mrs. Skinsfan also remarked at how much fast he looked.  Hope that translates when he puts on the pads...

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Hey @Skinsinparadise when you were at camp, how did the tempo/structure look differently than how it was under Scott turner? I remember you mentioning how it seemed lethargic/lazy in a nutshell with a slow tempo

 

I think the practice I watched was different than others judging by reporters because they ran a lot in that practice.  In previous ones, apparently they didn't run hardly at all.

 

The plays seemed basic.  Screens-hitches, etc to RBs.  As i mentioned a lot of delayed routes to RBs.  TEs had a lot of action.

 

The tempo didn't strike me that much.  But I'll say there was less time in between the various sets in practices.  Under Jay in particular there seemed to be more down time in between sets.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MrJL]

so what's the situation on the second string OL?

 

The only two we really know who are set there is that Lucas should be one of the tackles and Chris Paul should have been at LG, but now he's getting some time with the first strng

 

Is Larsen practicing?  I heard some people acting like he once again might not be ready.  And if he's not Stromberg must be  working at second team which would be higher than expected at this time. 

[Conn]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Under Jay in particular there seemed to be more down time in between sets.

only bc you don’t have a fine-tuned appreciation for the mandatory nipple-tweaking that was taking place between reps. was key to the 2016 offense’s success. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

C.  Howell wasn't that good today but was better than how he played on Saturday

What's interesting is Keim had said going into Saturday's practice it was noticeable how much less the ball hit the ground this year.

 

I can't remember if he tweeted that or said it on a pod.

 

So, taking from that, it sounds like Howell started pretty strong, and then had a bad day Saturday, and is regressing to the mean a little bit.

 

This is a little "connect the dots" on my part based on what I've heard from Keim (and others) through the first few days of camp.

 

Also, if that's the case, I'm cool with the progress.  I still think unless you are Mahomes-like, it takes a season or two STARTING before you really "get it."  You can have success your first season, but a lot of early QB successes are because of the guys around you picking up slack and a lot of the QB being a run threat.  Which is what I expect this year:

 

1. Simple concepts early. 1 or 2 reads, if it's not there, run.  

 

2. Present the QB as a run threat a lot, whether he runs or not.  This will simplify the defenses he sees a little bit. 

 

3. Run the ball, but not on only early downs.  The hardest situation to be in for an offense is known passing situations.  So do whatever you can to stay out of them.  If the defense knows you're going to pass, protection breaks down, and coverages become more complex. 

 

5. Use some no-huddle.  This doesn't have to be hurry-up, but get to the LOS.  The Chiefs did this with Mahomes his first year starting also. It allows the coach to talk to the QB at the LOS.  And defenses can't substitute, and typically defenses use only few concepts when the offense goes into no-huddle.

[Jumbo]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

You forgot the ‘sports’ exhaust 🙂

 

Being a long time connoisseur of hoopties, I just punch a hole in the muffler with a screwdriver for 'sports' exhaust.

 

(For a long time I drove the same year and model of car that Alfred Morris drove while he played here 😁😎)

 

 

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know what you are thinking.

 

It's time for:  

I hate you.

 

Not you you, but the idea of you thinking this was okay to put into the ether.

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What's interesting is Keim had said going into Saturday's practice it was noticeable how much less the ball hit the ground this year.

 

I can't remember if he tweeted that or said it on a pod.

 

So, taking from that, it sounds like Howell started pretty strong, and then had a bad day Saturday, and is regressing to the mean a little bit.

 

This is a little "connect the dots" on my part based on what I've heard from Keim (and others) through the first few days of camp.

 

Also, if that's the case, I'm cool with the progress.  I still think unless you are Mahomes-like, it takes a season or two STARTING before you really "get it."  You can have success your first season, but a lot of early QB successes are because of the guys around you picking up slack and a lot of the QB being a run threat.  Which is what I expect this year:

 

1. Simple concepts early. 1 or 2 reads, if it's not there, run.  

 

2. Present the QB as a run threat a lot, whether he runs or not.  This will simplify the defenses he sees a little bit. 

 

3. Run the ball, but not on only early downs.  The hardest situation to be in for an offense is known passing situations.  So do whatever you can to stay out of them.  If the defense knows you're going to pass, protection breaks down, and coverages become more complex. 

 

5. Use some no-huddle.  This doesn't have to be hurry-up, but get to the LOS.  The Chiefs did this with Mahomes his first year starting also. It allows the coach to talk to the QB at the LOS.  And defenses can't substitute, and typically defenses use only few concepts when the offense goes into no-huddle.

 

Well, the other angle is: If the defense is as dominant as they are reporting, shouldn't a first year starter regress before rising again?

[Conn]

Talking about the DL/secondary looking great and the QBs/OL struggling makes me wonder if observers are subconsciously double-counting the defense’s successes and the passing game is just that rough right now—or if the young DBs are legitimately that talented and quickly acclimated to things and that should be an excuse for the passing game. 

[Chris 44]

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

Talking about the DL/secondary looking great and the QBs/OL struggling makes me wonder if observers are subconsciously double-counting the defense’s successes and the passing game is just that rough right now—or if the young DBs are legitimately that talented and quickly acclimated to things and that should be an excuse for the passing game. 

Thinking the Ravens scrimmage will give us a better insight into all of this. But then it will be "it was just a scrimmage, can't take much from that". Lol

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What's interesting is Keim had said going into Saturday's practice it was noticeable how much less the ball hit the ground this year.

 

 

 

He said it in a podcast.

 

26 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

So, taking from that, it sounds like Howell started pretty strong, and then had a bad day Saturday, and is regressing to the mean a little bit.

 

 

The hard thing with Howell for me is depending on who I listen to, i get different reports.  Some for example thought Howell looked great in practice #1, then there was Craig Hoffman who thought "meh".  Similar narratives in minicamp, etc.  Different takes from different reporters.

 

The overall inpression I get is he's been inconsistent.  Streaky.  Hot and cold.   Just from my own observation, his mobility stands out and I think he will need that with this O line.  his experience playing under a porous O line at North Carolina will help him here.

 

I do think there is upside to him playing against a good defense in practice.  Good for him to deal with adversity in camp. 

 

I am intrigued by Howell's upside.   But I'll keep my enthusiasm on hold until I see him in real games this season with the bullets flying

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

9 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Thinking the Ravens scrimmage will give us a better insight into all of this. But then it will be "it was just a scrimmage, can't take much from that". Lol

not from me lol, but I’m sure you’re right that some will argue that. “You can’t take much away from that, they weren’t gameplanning for the Ravens in practice” type stuff lol like we see in preseason when our weaknesses are inevitably displayed each year.
 

For me, the Ravens practices are going to effect my prognostications a lot. That’s the main data point I’ve been waiting for. It will be revealing.