2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 This. We should know that we don't have any top tier talent here. We have guys that "should be ok", or "might be ok." We don't have "good" anything there, and we certainly don't have great. OL is the biggest area of concern, and it really was not addressed.

 

We drafted guys in the third and fourth round and signed two new starters in free agency.  It's fair to think the guys we got suck, but the OL was addressed.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

24 minutes ago, Conn said:

brutal 

 

Wow. What terrible news for him.

 

Now to be kind of an ass, his body was clearly beyond done last season. He couldn't move. Hopefully he just retires.

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

We drafted guys in the third and fourth round and signed two new starters in free agency.  It's fair to think the guys we got suck, but the OL was addressed.

Fair take. We just have to hope things gel and it doesn’t turn into the 2023 OL version of addressing WR by signing Terrelle Pryor and Brian Quick in 2017.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

6 minutes ago, Conn said:

Fair take. We just have to hope things gel and it doesn’t turn into the 2023 OL version of addressing WR by signing Terrelle Pryor and Brian Quick in 2017.

 

In sort of fairness the 1st round pick from 2016 hadn't played yet...so Bruce Allen thought they had a lot of internal help too. But what bad evaluations all around. What gets me is that the coaches clearly weren't on board. From the get go they had Pryor and Doctson competing for snaps at the X. They didn't think either could do the Z or Slot.

[Chris 44]

Keim from TC today

 

Talked about how the ball doesnt hit the ground nearly as much as last year in TC. QB's appear much more accurate. Howell was relaying in calls to other QBs to get more practice in communicating plays. 

Howell appears to have special arm talent. Was using hard count to get the D to tip their hands. Mentioned that even on incompletes, tight coverage, Howell putting it where only the receiver would have a chance to get it.

Pringle nice job returning kicks, Gibson looks good also.

Kicker battle, seems even but he gives the nod to Sly, other guy (Bigsley sp?) has issues with kickoffs.

St. Juste looks good, also mentions Forbes and Curl.

Hodges has good athleticism, possibly good in space blocking.

 

Plenty more, just dont have time to watch everything yet. approx 38 min from keim. Worth a watch if you have time, found it on youtube.

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

Don’t worry- Tuddy plush will be discounted soon enough. It will be the .99 cent Tuddy Bacon special.

Edited July 28, 2023 by 88Comrade2000

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 This. We should know that we don't have any top tier talent here. We have guys that "should be ok", or "might be ok." We don't have "good" anything there, and we certainly don't have great. OL is the biggest area of concern, and it really was not addressed.

I think the one guy we have with the potential to be good this year is Cosmi - he was killing it in the run game his rookie year.  Pairing him with Wylie (who should, if nothing else at least be well versed on the details EB’s always talking about) could work out well for the run game, RPO and screens to that side.  Just have to hope the move inside helps him avoid getting dinged up as much/often.

 

I tend to agree that it wasn’t addressed in a way that should earn much optimism from us.  I do think improving our C depth, Cosmi’s moving inside, and the scheme change (including RPOs) can make a fairly significant impact though.  Can’t envision them reaching “good”, but hopefully passable enough that the offense can operate at a pretty high level.  Injury history, question of our starting LG talent, and our sketchy guard depth could absolutely derail things though.  We’ll see…

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

25 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Don’t worry- Tuddy plush will be discounted soon enough. It will be the .99 cent Tuddy Bacon special.

Wrong thread?

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I understand that OL is still a weakness for this team. I’m just not sure what they were supposed to do this off-season (this doesn’t absolve them for the OL decline), other than reach for an OL after DWright got picked. 
 

We will draft and sign OL next offseason, but I think we will be happy that we picked Quan and Forbes instead. 

[bowhunter]

Is there a source for the injury report of camp? Who practiced, who didn't and who is rehabbing on the sidelines? I really was hoping for Kaz Allen to show something as a return specialist but I see those practice reps going to Pringle, Gibson, and others. Missed practice reps don't help at all

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I understand that OL is still a weakness for this team. I’m just not sure what they were supposed to do this off-season (this doesn’t absolve them for the OL decline), other than reach for an OL after DWright got picked. 
 

We will draft and sign OL next offseason, but I think we will be happy that we picked Quan and Forbes instead. 

I think there were more/better FA's they could have gone after, specifically at the LG spot, since we have a late round draft pick competing with a guy who can't stay healthy.

 

I wanted them to trade up basically as far as they need to in order pick one of the top tackles on the board.  I'm fine with who they selected on the defensive side of the ball, but I went into the draft saying they needed to go offense with the first round pick.  

 

And I'm the most "defender" of the OL maybe on the board.  But I think they could have done more.

 

The caveat on FA being Dan was still here, who knows the budget they had to spend, and general team turmoil might have gotten in the way of getting FAs.  But not the draft.  They could have traded up in the draft.  It would have been too much to get up to 6 where the Falcons took Paris Johnson.  But could they have gone from 16 to 8 or 10 to have their pick of either Wright or Skoronski?  I think they could have if they were aggressive about it.   

[MrJL]

looking at the list of unsigned free agents, some guys we might kick the tires on(most likely as 1 year rentals) besides Risner, there's also Rodger Saffold and  AJ Cann, as two guys who were starters

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

I don't believe Blackjack in a casino is that doable through math or systems. Blackjack on a 52 card deck, absolutely. But a casino's randomness is over the top.

 

Casino's will use 5 or 6 decks, all shuffled together, and then a random cut that removes 25-40% of all the cards. You could have an awkward shuffle/cut where all the Aces are missing, or most of the low cards, or whatever. How do you quantify the randomness and develop a strategy when you have no idea which cards are even playable?

That's not the system.  You don't know what cards are coming, but you can predict odds.  And because the dealer has to play by specific rules, you can work them to your advantage.

 

For examples, because 10's, jacks, queens and kings are all 10, that's 16/52, or roughly 30% of pulling a 10 on every card.  This is the generally accepted "system:" https://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/blackjack-strategy-charts/

 

There are also betting strategies.  

 

Trust me, I was TOUGHT the system by the casino manager at the Mandalay Bay back in the late 1990's,  who owned/operated a bunch of casino's. His system is similar to the one above but he suggested always playing the most conservate approach when coming to doubling down, splitting, etc.  Some folks are more aggressive with those tools, I was always super conservative.  For example, there are some that say you always split on double 8's.  Bud said don't do that if you have a "made hand."  So, if the dealer is showing a 6, you assume a bust.  The probability says they have a 16, and will draw a 7+ to bust.  

 

The aggressive play is to split the 8's and try and win 8 hands from a position of strength.

 

The conservative play is to keep the 16 and play to win the one hand. 

 

Anyway, it's all math.  If you play this way with a good betting strategy you can get yourself into a position to not lose your kid's college savings in one night.  

[ixcuincle]

[Skinsinparadise]

In town now. Going to practice tomorrow.

 

Anyone know if old ox brewery is easy walking distance or not from the park? 

[Skinsinparadise]

As for them addressing the O line. Agree they did something to address it. They did last year too. If that’s the bar.

 

The way I see it captured perfectly below. But maybe they will make believers out of me over time including camp tomorrow 

 

lol for some reason I tried to post a YouTube video from Seinfeld of Peternsn saying job done and it’s not quite working.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I understand that OL is still a weakness for this team. I’m just not sure what they were supposed to do this off-season (this doesn’t absolve them for the OL decline), other than reach for an OL after DWright got picked. 
 

We will draft and sign OL next offseason, but I think we will be happy that we picked Quan and Forbes instead. 

They had opportunities IMO to shoot higher in FA without even breaking the bank.

 

Piecing together different narratives from beat guys my best guess is they believed they’d add an O lineman early in that draft so we’re satisfied with FA in that context. But we’re caught a bit off guard that the draft didn’t flow the way they expected.

 

I got new issue with who they took. Quan Martin ended up one of my favs on the draft thread as the draft approached.
 

But my take is if you roll the dice on the O line especially after rolling the dice the previous offseason - you have to live or die with that gamble.

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[tomwvr]

3 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I understand that OL is still a weakness for this team. I’m just not sure what they were supposed to do this off-season (this doesn’t absolve them for the OL decline), other than reach for an OL after DWright got picked. 
 

We will draft and sign OL next offseason, but I think we will be happy that we picked Quan and Forbes instead. 

Sorry but we had two players that should still be here from the OL that Ron let leave, it was his biggest mistake.

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for them addressing the O line. Agree they did something to address it. They did last year too. If that’s the bar.

 

The way I see it captured perfectly below. But maybe they will make believers out of me over time including camp tomorrow 

 

 

Last years FA OL signings were not ever close to the level we signed this year. Last Year the guys we signed were  3 on a scale of 1-10 and this years are a 5-6

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But could they have gone from 16 to 8 or 10 to have their pick of either Wright or Skoronski?  I think they could have if they were aggressive about it.   

I agree that they could’ve made that happen. My argument is that I am happier having both Forbes/Quan than having one of Wright/Skoronski. 

I’m one of the more optimistic guys here regarding the OL as well, even though I think it will be mediocre. 
 

My faith is really in EB/Howell. I think they outperform and elevate/mitigate (to an extent) the overall play of the OL. 
 

My overall gripe with the “OL is awful”discussion and also with “Ron’s win/loss percentage is awful” discussion is that both, in my opinion, woefully undervalue the effect of awful quarterback play. 
 

I expect QB play to be drastically improved. And that will make everything (even Ron) look better. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[MrJL]

1 minute ago, tomwvr said:

Sorry but we had two players that should still be here from the OL that Ron let leave, it was his biggest mistake.

Ron didn't let them leave, if you're talking about Trent Williams and Brandon Scherff, they refused to play here

[tomwvr]

Just now, MrJL said:

Ron didn't let them leave, if you're talking about Trent Williams and Brandon Scherff, they refused to play here

Brandon more that Trent. But I think If Trent had stayed Scherff would still be here. 

Trent would have stayed if Ron didn't play hard ball with him.

[ixcuincle]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In town now. Going to practice tomorrow.

 

Anyone know if old ox brewery is easy walking distance or not from the park? 

old ox is across the parkway from the facility. not sure how much long a walk it is.

 

Google says 22 minutes.

[profusion]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In town now. Going to practice tomorrow.

 

Anyone know if old ox brewery is easy walking distance or not from the park? 

 

Haven't been there, but I get around the Rt. 28 area a bit. That looks like a pretty long walk, especially on a hot day like tomorrow will be.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, MrJL said:

Ron didn't let them leave, if you're talking about Trent Williams and Brandon Scherff, they refused to play here

Ron could have handled both situations better though.  Scherff it is what it is.  But he should have came in kissing Trent’s ass as opposed to the stance he took.  My gut has always been that Dan gave Ron *carte blanche.  The asterisk being Dan convincing Ron to give Dwayne a chance and to never relent on Trent.  It never made any sense for the head coach to choose to play hardball with a future HOF like Williams.

Edited July 28, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

3 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

Brandon more that Trent. But I think If Trent had stayed Scherff would still be here. 

Trent would have stayed if Ron didn't play hard ball with him.

 

 Still makes me sick that we weren't able to at least get some compensation for him. Silverback still ballin on a HIGH level.