2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's cool.  too early for me to know which one am most intrigued by.   For a lot of college QBs that last season changes a lot as to their fortunes and prospects.  Many shifts typically at QB from the season before to their last season.

 

Hopefully, Howell is the goods.  But I'll definitely be watching the QBs in case he's not.   Plus I am gathering knowing Harris' rep if there ends up questions aboiut Howell, he's not going to slow play finding a QB -- I'd think its 2024. 

Agreed. Harris will address the major needs pretty quickly won’t he. Should be fun to watch.

[method man]

Think third year is a charm for drafting an off ball LB?

[The Rook]

17 hours ago, method man said:

Think third year is a charm for drafting an off ball LB?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Est.1974]

19 hours ago, method man said:

Think third year is a charm for drafting an off ball LB?

Honestly, what does that mean, please explain, don’t quite get it?

[method man]

58 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Honestly, what does that mean, please explain, don’t quite get it?

 

We punted on drafting off ball LB depth in 2022 and 2023 despite it being reported by Keim that they were looking at prospects at the position. Wondering whether 2024 is the year we finally draft a guy in any round at our biggest position of need.

[Anselmheifer]

I’ve been looking at different takes on the QB situation, OL and Lb, and I think we may have a perfect storm to land a high draft pick. 
 

Most people seem to think Ron is going to win 8 games regardless, because the roster is, “good”, and Ron doesn’t usually have awful years. 
 

The OL could really, really be a problem for us this year. Even if Howell is pretty good, we could still win 8 games. Now imagine he bombs. And a the OL underperforms. 
 

I could see us with a top 8 pick. And if that’s the case, if the team with the #1 pick has a QB, I’d package picks and players and go up and get QB1. 

[Koolblue13]

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I’ve been looking at different takes on the QB situation, OL and Lb, and I think we may have a perfect storm to land a high draft pick. 
 

Most people seem to think Ron is going to win 8 games regardless, because the roster is, “good”, and Ron doesn’t usually have awful years. 
 

The OL could really, really be a problem for us this year. Even if Howell is pretty good, we could still win 8 games. Now imagine he bombs. And a the OL underperforms. 
 

I could see us with a top 8 pick. And if that’s the case, if the team with the #1 pick has a QB, I’d package picks and players and go up and get QB1. 

Best case is getting close enough to one of the top QBs. If we can do it without trading up, we could land ourselves in a position to add some picks the following year.

[Silvernon]

9 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I’ve been looking at different takes on the QB situation, OL and Lb, and I think we may have a perfect storm to land a high draft pick. 
 

Most people seem to think Ron is going to win 8 games regardless, because the roster is, “good”, and Ron doesn’t usually have awful years. 
 

The OL could really, really be a problem for us this year. Even if Howell is pretty good, we could still win 8 games. Now imagine he bombs. And a the OL underperforms. 
 

I could see us with a top 8 pick. And if that’s the case, if the team with the #1 pick has a QB, I’d package picks and players and go up and get QB1. 

I disagree.

 

The OL is the weakest unit, but they probably have their eye out for a large cut. I liked Howell coming into the draft, so I have bias there but they have a top tier back-up. The weapons are elite for any good coordinator. 

 

The D is stacked and could be elite. You need a few things to happen: Forbes and Quan to play well as rookies, Jamin takes a step and Barton surprises, BSJ is healthy and Young looks like his draft pedigree. 

 

I think 10-12 wins in a tough division. This is a better roster than last year. More depth. 

[MartinC]

On 5/19/2023 at 1:14 PM, method man said:

 

We punted on drafting off ball LB depth in 2022 and 2023 despite it being reported by Keim that they were looking at prospects at the position. Wondering whether 2024 is the year we finally draft a guy in any round at our biggest position of need.

Off the ball linebacker isn’t our biggest position of need right now IMO. Even if you discount QB it’s still not our biggest need.

 

First position value shows that in the modern NFL off the ball backers are evolving into big safeties who can play against the run in the box but are more suited to coverage responsibilities in zone and can match up with backs and TEs in man. Still an important role but much more premium put on D’line who can generate pass rush and backend coverage.

 

For us though I think the glaring need (again outside QB) is OT and OG. 
 

Clearly we have to see how Howell plays and also how players like Paul develop and see if the switch to OG works with Cosmi. But if Howell plays well I can see OT being our biggest need going into next years draft.

[DWinzit]

9 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Off the ball linebacker isn’t our biggest position of need right now IMO. Even if you discount QB it’s still not our biggest need.

 

First position value shows that in the modern NFL off the ball backers are evolving into big safeties who can play against the run in the box but are more suited to coverage responsibilities in zone and can match up with backs and TEs in man. Still an important role but much more premium put on D’line who can generate pass rush and backend coverage.

 

For us though I think the glaring need (again outside QB) is OT and OG. 
 

Clearly we have to see how Howell plays and also how players like Paul develop and see if the switch to OG works with Cosmi. But if Howell plays well I can see OT being our biggest need going into next years draft.

Absolutely the OL will be a need. Hard to tell who of these young players will be able to step up to prove to be solid starters. It is a shame the team didn't make a move on a player in FA or the draft that would be a decisive starter for years to come at any single position. Best chance in Strom but we are going to need at least one of the other young guys to step up with him. Tackle will be a definite need no matter what. 

 

I'd like to add a TE with YAC and blocking capabilities as a large need. While the draft may not have fallen as they'd hoped for a T they had shots to get the TE in a really strong TE class.

 

I will say that the LB spot does still feel like the biggest need on the D, whether a big S or smaller quicker LB. This is a weak link right now. 

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Absolutely the OL will be a need. Hard to tell who of these young players will be able to step up to prove to be solid starters. It is a shame the team didn't make a move on a player in FA or the draft that would be a decisive starter for years to come at any single position. Best chance in Strom but we are going to need at least one of the other young guys to step up with him. Tackle will be a definite need no matter what. 

 

I'd like to add a TE with YAC and blocking capabilities as a large need. While the draft may not have fallen as they'd hoped for a T they had shots to get the TE in a really strong TE class.

 

I will say that the LB spot does still feel like the biggest need on the D, whether a big S or smaller quicker LB. This is a weak link right now. 

Forbes will start immediately and Martin will probably start and even if doesn’t technically start will see a lot of snaps. 
 

Decent chance we come out of this with at least 3 starters and Forbes has a chance to be an impact type starter. 
 

But I agree that backer feels like the weak area in the D. Even though there is a recent first round pick starting there.

[DWinzit]

57 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Forbes will start immediately and Martin will probably start and even if doesn’t technically start will see a lot of snaps. 
 

Decent chance we come out of this with at least 3 starters and Forbes has a chance to be an impact type starter. 

Fully agree but was meaning more in terms that they should have addressed OL and TE by the second round. Also when speaking of needing some of the group of young players to step up, I meant all these young OL and TE's with little or no NFL experience. So many with opportunities this year that we must count on. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, MartinC said:

Off the ball linebacker isn’t our biggest position of need right now IMO. Even if you discount QB it’s still not our biggest need.

 

First position value shows that in the modern NFL off the ball backers are evolving into big safeties who can play against the run in the box but are more suited to coverage responsibilities in zone and can match up with backs and TEs in man. Still an important role but much more premium put on D’line who can generate pass rush and backend coverage.

 

For us though I think the glaring need (again outside QB) is OT and OG. 
 

Clearly we have to see how Howell plays and also how players like Paul develop and see if the switch to OG works with Cosmi. But if Howell plays well I can see OT being our biggest need going into next years draft.

 

I am with you.  I don't love our depth at LB.  But I can live with Barton and Davis as starters.   This team loves 5 D lineman sets. If I recall they played dime more than most teams.  Their base defense is often 3 safety sets.   There are few defenses that minimize the value of LB like this team.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love a stud LB but LB doesn't feel like the code red spot. 

 

OG-OT feels big time like the code red spot.  I suspect just llke this past off season, we are going to be diving into the O line class like crazy before the draft.  And it will likely be a different FO making those picks -- and I think the main reason why there will be a new FO will be because of the O line likely being "meh" in back to back seasons.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

8 hours ago, MartinC said:

Off the ball linebacker isn’t our biggest position of need right now IMO. Even if you discount QB it’s still not our biggest need.

 

First position value shows that in the modern NFL off the ball backers are evolving into big safeties who can play against the run in the box but are more suited to coverage responsibilities in zone and can match up with backs and TEs in man. Still an important role but much more premium put on D’line who can generate pass rush and backend coverage.

 

For us though I think the glaring need (again outside QB) is OT and OG. 
 

Clearly we have to see how Howell plays and also how players like Paul develop and see if the switch to OG works with Cosmi. But if Howell plays well I can see OT being our biggest need going into next years draft.

 

 

I agree that Davis and Barton are both passable starters but the greater issue is that the depth behind them is the worst of any of the position groups. For OT, you at least have Lucas. For OG, you'll have either Gates or Paul for depth (if you want to debate Paul, fine, you still have a 4th. For off ball LB, you have who? Mayo? Hudson? The former made his first season opening 53 man roster last year and the second guy didn't make the team out of camp last year. 

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

 

 

I agree that Davis and Barton are both passable starters but the greater issue is that the depth behind them is the worst of any of the position groups. For OT, you at least have Lucas. For OG, you'll have either Gates or Paul for depth (if you want to debate Paul, fine, you still have a 4th. For off ball LB, you have who? Mayo? Hudson? The former made his first season opening 53 man roster last year and the second guy didn't make the team out of camp last year. 

 

You can cover up weakness or injuries at backer by playing 3 safeties in base or using an extra DL. You can scheme your way around an issue at backer (at least to some extent) and its not an area of the D which will just kill you.

 

Our O'line has the potential to kill the whole offense and we don't have a single stud on that line that would allow you to scheme to cover up a weakness by sliding protections etc. 

 

O'line is our achilles heel IMO - especially with a young QB behind it. QB aside its certainly the biggest area of need we will need to address next offseason IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

The O line has a domino effect.  We had one of the worst run blocking units and pass blocking units.  It effects the passing game.  It effects the run game. 

 

A scout once articulated it well where he said more or less its really hard to be a good team with a bad offensive line.

 

https://nflspinzone.com/2022/09/07/nfl-study-important-offensive-line-success/

 

I did some research into the matter this past weekend and came away with the following results. This study looks at PFF’s final offensive line grades since 2012. Those stats are compared to some data like the final record, playoff appearances, and Super Bowl results. This gives a complete look at just how important a good offensive line is to a team.

An NFL offensive line has some important results

...Looking at the top and bottom-5 lines though, there is almost a three-game spread. That is huge for a team, as a good line can and will win you more games.

What is more telling is the playoff success. Based on this data, if a team wants to make it to the playoffs, they need to have a top-12 offensive line. To make it to the Super Bowl, you need to be a top-11 line. To win the Super Bowl follows suit, as the average offensive line rank for every winner is around a top-12 line.

Digging deeper, a bottom-five offensive line has only made it to the playoffs seven times and has never made it to the Super Bowl nor won it. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

Football still comes down to blocking and tackling. If you are not good at either of those two things its tough to win consistently.

[method man]

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

You can cover up weakness or injuries at backer by playing 3 safeties in base or using an extra DL. You can scheme your way around an issue at backer (at least to some extent) and its not an area of the D which will just kill you.

 

Our O'line has the potential to kill the whole offense and we don't have a single stud on that line that would allow you to scheme to cover up a weakness by sliding protections etc. 

 

O'line is our achilles heel IMO - especially with a young QB behind it. QB aside its certainly the biggest area of need we will need to address next offseason IMO.

 

I hear you around scheming around linebackers and I agree with you that you can play 2 LBs most of the time. However, it is a position where guys get hurt a lot and, while Jamin has stayed healthy, the other starters we have had over the years have missed time, whether it be Holcomb, Bostic or KPL. They barely got by last year with Jamin staying healthy but if both guys were to go down, they are in serious trouble. They had a bunch of issues but the LB injuries the Browns had last year were the primary reason their D was terrible. There is only so much masking you could do if you are forced to start Mayo and Hudson. 

 

On OL, there are different theories around it. I think it is Logan Paulsen whose philosophy is that you don't need studs but you need at least a legitimate starter at each spot so you don't have a weak link. I think they should sign Jason Peters or Dalton Risner for additional insurance at LG but I don't feel very worried about any other spot on the OL. 

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, method man said:

 

I hear you around scheming around linebackers and I agree with you that you can play 2 LBs most of the time. However, it is a position where guys get hurt a lot and, while Jamin has stayed healthy, the other starters we have had over the years have missed time, whether it be Holcomb, Bostic or KPL. They barely got by last year with Jamin staying healthy but if both guys were to go down, they are in serious trouble. They had a bunch of issues but the LB injuries the Browns had last year were the primary reason their D was terrible. There is only so much masking you could do if you are forced to start Mayo and Hudson. 

 

On OL, there are different theories around it. I think it is Logan Paulsen whose philosophy is that you don't need studs but you need at least a legitimate starter at each spot so you don't have a weak link. I think they should sign Jason Peters or Dalton Risner for additional insurance at LG but I don't feel very worried about any other spot on the OL. 

Often we only have one backer on the field. The second backer is replaced by a safety in a big nickel look. I do agree with you about depth though and backer is clearly the weakest position group on D.

 

On the O’line I’m not all that confident about tackle either. Wylie just started at OT in a Super Bowl but is probably better as an OG. Leno is solid. I actually feel better about depth at OG than OT - but better about the starters at OT!

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Forehead]

I obviously have a Penn State bias but Olu Fashanu is an absolute wall at LT and might have been the first O-Lineman off the board if he had declared this year.

 

I'm shocked he came back but he was hurt at the end of the season so that could be why.  But we could definitely use him.

[Skinsinparadise]

2024 NFL draft quarterback class: Top passers to know, big questions

 

TOP NAMES TO KNOW

Caleb Williams, USC

 

Height: 6-foot-1 | Weight: 220 pounds
Class: Junior

Where he excels: Williams followed coach Lincoln Riley to USC from Oklahoma and blossomed during his Heisman Trophy-winning sophomore season, throwing for 4,537 yards and 42 touchdowns with five interceptions. He added another 382 yards and 10 scores on the ground. Williams is a true dual-threat QB who places a lot of stress on defenses as a polished passer and runner. He is a playmaker with a compact and explosive release that allows him to get the ball out quickly. And while he shows the vision to make plays within the pocket, Williams is also very comfortable creating when forced off his initial spot

 

Where he needs work: His eagerness to play outside of structure invites a lot of avoidable pressure. Williams often looks for the explosive play when easier completions are available to him, and he needs to sometimes take those checkdowns or passes to underneath options sooner in his progressions. It could help limit some of the stress he sees in the pocket.

Why I'm intrigued with his first-round potential: Williams is the complete package as a thrower. He is poised in pressure situations and has the creativity and confidence to excel in the NFL. He tied former Georgia QB Stetson Bennett (now with the Rams) for the highest expected points added per dropback (0.46) among all FBS QBs last season, showing his value to the Trojans. Williams has a good chance to become the first USC quarterback drafted at No. 1 overall since Carson Palmer was the top pick in 2003 -- if he has a successful junior campaign.

Drake Maye, North Carolina

Height: 6-foot-4 | Weight: 220 pounds
Class: Redshirt sophomore

Where he excels: Maye finished the 2022 season with 4,321 passing yards, 38 passing touchdowns and seven interceptions and was named the ACC Rookie of the Year and Offensive Player of the Year. He has the arm strength to get the ball to any spot on the field, and his best moments have come when he's able to see, read and attack coverages within the confines of the Tar Heels' scheme. Maye's best attribute is his accuracy in the intermediate and deep areas of the field, as his 63 completions on passes of 20-plus air yards was the fifth-best mark last season. He is also a more than capable runner, especially on zone-read plays and when he needs to get out of harm's way.

Where he needs work: Scouts want to see Maye improve ball security and show more patience. Whether it's as a runner or when standing in the pocket, he's prone to lose the ball; Maye recorded seven fumbles (five lost) last season. He also has a tendency to give up on plays prematurely and look for exit routes outside of the pocket too soon. We saw some of these issues toward the end of last season. In North Carolina's four-game losing streak, Maye finished with six total touchdowns (four passing, two rushing) while throwing four interceptions and surrendering 14 sacks.

Why I'm intrigued with his first-round potential: Maye is a toolsy player with many standout physical traits, but he is still figuring out how to use all of them at the right time. With offensive coordinator Phil Longo gone to Wisconsin, he will now be under the guidance of new coordinator Chip Lindsey. There could be an adjustment period for Maye as he learns a new offense and searches to replace the production of receiver Josh Downs (Colts).

---

Quinn Ewers, Texas

Height: 6-foot-2 | Weight: 206 pounds
Class: Redshirt sophomore

Where he excels: Ewers has an effortless side-arm extension with his throwing release, and he doesn't have to do much to generate velocity behind his throws. He showed plenty of promise in finishing the 2022 season with 2,177 passing yards, 15 touchdown passes and six interceptions. And his first-quarter performance against Alabama in Week 2 was perhaps the best highlight of his first season as a starter. Prior to exiting the game with an injury to his nonthrowing shoulder, he completed 9 of 12 passes for 134 passing yards against the Crimson Tide's tough defense.

Where he needs work: One of Ewers' biggest deficiencies during his first season in Austin was game-to-game consistency. His play was too uneven, and we saw the low end in Week 8 against Oklahoma State (19-for-49, 318 passing yards, two touchdown throws and three interceptions). And in watching his tape, I think he needs to find more rhythm between his upper and lower body. Ewers relies too heavily on his upper-body strength to drive the ball, which can result in poor accuracy and misfires all over the field.

Why I'm intrigued with his first-round potential: All of the ingredients are present for Ewers, but he's still figuring out how to blend them to reach the next stage of his development. Another year in Texas' proven system and under the guidance of a quarterback developer like Steve Sarkisian -- he developed first-round picks in Tua Tagovailoa (2020) and Mac Jones (2021) -- will do Ewers well. If he puts it all together, he has a high ceiling.

 

---

Michael Penix Jr., Washington

Height: 6-foot-3 | Weight: 214 pounds
Class: Redshirt senior

Where he excels: After four seasons at Indiana (2018-2021), Penix transferred to Washington and stayed healthy for the first time in his career. He finished last season with 4,641 passing yards, 31 touchdown throws and eight interceptions. He is the perfect distributor for the Huskies' up-tempo offense thanks to the left-hander's A-level arm strength. Penix showcases a lightning-quick release and efficiently operates the team's Air Raid offense. He threw a touchdown pass in every game except one last season and had only three contests in which he didn't surpass the 300-yard passing mark.

Where he needs work: Durability remains the biggest question. Prior to transferring, Penix suffered two torn ACLs in his right knee and two injuries to his nonthrowing shoulder. He missed 25 of 51 possible games as a Hoosier, and the 2022 season marked the first time he played more than six games. Penix also hardly ever uses his lower body on throws; he can be too confident in his upper-body strength when trying to hit desired targets.

Why I'm intrigued with his first-round potential: Despite playing in a college-oriented scheme, Penix is an advanced passer. He has a great feel for spacing, triangle reads and mesh concepts. He is also creative and patient when working through progressions, with the ability to control defenders with his eyes. Penix is throwing to arguably the most talented wide receiver group in the country and could be in for a big senior year if he can repeat what we saw last season.

---

J.J. McCarthy, Michigan

Height: 6-foot-2 | Weight: 196 pounds
Class: Junior

Where he excels: After taking over as the Wolverines' full-time starter, McCarthy shined in spurts during the 2022 season. He finished with 2,719 passing yards, 22 touchdown throws and five interceptions, and he's a quick decision-maker who fully trusts what his eyes see before the snap. McCarthy is a near-perfect complement for Michigan's dynamic rushing attack because he is superb off play-action passes and designed rollouts. He's comfortable in turning his back to the defense and resetting his eyes after fakes, and he is an accurate passer with a great feel for ball placement when attacking zone coverage.

Where he needs work: McCarthy must grow in his consistency against man coverage and the speed of his mental clock after his initial read. Given that he's an in-rhythm thrower in the shorter areas of the field, he takes too long to continue on to his next option when that first option is taken away. Scouts want to see him develop when eliminating options and progressing through to secondary possibilities.

Why I'm intrigued with his first-round potential: It was clear last season that Michigan wanted to slowly develop him and get him comfortable within the scheme, as he had only six games with 25 or more pass attempts over 13 starts. But the program could lean on McCarthy more as a passer this year, which could boost his draft projection. He has the tools, even though many scouts see him as a Day 2 pick right now.

---

Bo Nix, Oregon

Height: 6-foot-2 | Weight: 213 pounds
Class: Senior

Where he excels: Nix reinvented himself in his first season with the Ducks after transferring from Auburn. Operating in an up-tempo, hurry-up offense, he set career highs in passing yards (3,593), passing touchdowns (29) and completion percentage (71.9%). He has an excellent understanding of space reads and complements that with adequate ball placement in a scheme that features leverage reads and quick passes to backfield options. And Nix has just enough arm strength to push the ball down the field, so the Oregon offense picks and chooses when he should make timely throws to deep targets.

 

Where he needs work: Nix must be more consistent in throwing to the intermediate-to-deeper parts of the field. His arm strength limitations become apparent when he attempts to make those throws down the field in contested situations or into tight windows. This offense doesn't operate in those areas consistently, so he'll need to show that he has the deep-ball arm strength and accuracy in limited spots.

Why I'm intrigued with his first-round potential: "He looked like a completely different player than what we saw at Auburn," said an area scout of Nix. "Looked much better as a passer." Nix navigates the pocket well and isn't shy about taking off and running. He had a career-high 510 rushing yards and 14 rushing touchdowns in 2022. The Ducks signal-caller displayed plenty of growth as a passer during his first season in Eugene, but continuing on that track will be essential for his draft status.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/37801703/2024-nfl-draft-quarterback-class-top-passers-know-big-questions

Edited June 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KillBill26]

Joe Milton, QB TENN, will be a name to watch.  Cannon for an arm and will be in Heupel's system. The Vols lost 2 great wr, but that offense will probably still be high powered as long as heupel is there.  Touch, accuracy, and composure in the pocket will be things to watch for him, and if he shows improvement in those areas, he will probably be in the 1st round conversation. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rockytoptalk.com/platform/amp/2023/5/9/23716728/joe-milton-tennessee-vols-football-2024-nfl-draft-quarterback-prospects

[MrJL]

I don't follow college football.  I've heard great things about Williams.  But is it possible that someone will look at him and say "Do we really want to be the next team to draft a USC QB at 1?"

[moondog]

I don’t dislike our offensive line. They have a ton of athleticism and can get out for screens. 
 

But I hate the durability. Cosmi and Charles have had serious issues staying on the field. And Leno has been an iron man but how long can that last at his age? 
 

I like the starting 5 for this offense (don’t love) but the durability concerns me much more than the actual ability.