Going Commando Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 One of the keys to the turnaround for the Lions and Texans defense was getting Desmond King and Chauncey Gardner-Johnson. Having a vet nickel/safety to direct traffic on your defense is so important to success, and losing that was a big part of our collapse this year. Knowing that, I want us to try and sign Kenny Moore. His 2023 AAV was about 8 million, and my goal would be to get him signed for 10 million AAV or less. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 hours ago, Going Commando said: One of the keys to the turnaround for the Lions and Texans defense was getting Desmond King and Chauncey Gardner-Johnson. Having a vet nickel/safety to direct traffic on your defense is so important to success, and losing that was a big part of our collapse this year. Knowing that, I want us to try and sign Kenny Moore. His 2023 AAV was about 8 million, and my goal would be to get him signed for 10 million AAV or less. Didn’t Gardner-Johnson miss most of the season and then return as a backup? 10 hours ago, CapsSkins said: I'd go for Trenton Brown at RT from New England, too. Starters before the draft: Charles Leno-Jonah Jackson-Aaron Brewer-Sam Cosmi-Trenton Brown. Then draft a bunch of guys and see which rookies outcompete the vets for starting spots. Brewer sucks at pass pro, Jackson has fallen off since his Pro Bowl season (would’ve been extended otherwise) and Brown is a team cancer who was a healthy scratch the last couple games due to effort issues 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 9 minutes ago, method man said: Didn’t Gardner-Johnson miss most of the season and then return as a backup? Brewer sucks at pass pro, Jackson has fallen off since his Pro Bowl season (would’ve been extended otherwise) and Brown is a team cancer who was a healthy scratch the last couple games due to effort issues Jackson at least could help the other guys learn the new blocking scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 minutes ago, method man said: Didn’t Gardner-Johnson miss most of the season and then return as a backup? Yeah you are 100% right. Detroit's turnaround on defense is about a way more than just a DB, and I probably oversold the value of veterancy in the secondary. Even more important was building up that DL and getting an alpha player in Hutchinson, and another star in Brian Branch. I still think having at least one really good veteran leader for your secondary is important though, especially when you have a bunch of young guys who don't communicate well like we do. Disappointed that Fuller hasn't been that for us, despite him playing well as an individual. Kenny Moore has a strong reputation for leadership and has the energy and football IQ to help guys like Forbes and Forrest and St Juste get better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Going Commando said: Yeah you are 100% right. Detroit's turnaround on defense is about a way more than just a DB, and I probably oversold the value of veterancy in the secondary. Even more important was building up that DL and getting an alpha player in Hutchinson, and another star in Brian Branch. I still think having at least one really good veteran leader for your secondary is important though, especially when you have a bunch of young guys who don't communicate well like we do. Disappointed that Fuller hasn't been that for us, despite him playing well as an individual. Kenny Moore has a strong reputation for leadership and has the energy and football IQ to help guys like Forbes and Forrest and St Juste get better. I agree with the need for a veteran safety leader. McKinney is a guy SIP has been pushing for a while and I would love that. Not only is he a team captain but he was a top 5 safety this year. We could use a true elite guy in the secondary (To be clear, Winfield Jr is who I really want but I bet he gets franchised) Edited January 15 by method man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) Edit: Wrong thread Edited January 15 by HTTRDynasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 3 hours ago, CapsSkins said: Jackson at least could help the other guys learn the new blocking scheme. He looked nasty last night. A bully. If Johnson is the guy, I could definitely see that. Sign Feliciano from SF to be the transition center/back up guard. Draft a RT in the late first or second. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 3 hours ago, method man said: I agree with the need for a veteran safety leader. McKinney is a guy SIP has been pushing for a while and I would love that. Not only is he a team captain but he was a top 5 safety this year. We could use a true elite guy in the secondary (To be clear, Winfield Jr is who I really want but I bet he gets franchised) McKinney sounds good to me. His market value on Spotrac is 10.4 million AAV, which feels like a bargain. That is probably conservative, and I could see an AAV going over 14 million given the quality of his season this year, and the fact that he's only 24. What's the ceiling on what everyone would be willing to pay for McKinney? I also think it could be a good idea to double down on secondary if Fuller walks. McKinney + Kenny Moore. I'd like to keep Fuller if possible, but his market value is 14M vs Moore's market value of 8M. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I never worry about raw dollar cost for a player unless its just something STUPID(like $30 mil a year for a LB lolol). The cap is only going to go up more and more with new TV deals and gambling becoming mainstream, and we're gonna have a rookie QB contract for the next 4+ years. McKinney would be a heck of a pick up. The fact that he's still only 24 is just crazy too. I'd like to keep Fuller but I could see some contender in need of pass defense help going all out to get him. Honeslty we kinda effed up not trading him at the deadline. He could have gotten decent return I think with how CB hungry teams are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) On 1/15/2024 at 12:01 PM, Going Commando said: McKinney sounds good to me. His market value on Spotrac is 10.4 million AAV, which feels like a bargain. That is probably conservative, and I could see an AAV going over 14 million given the quality of his season this year, and the fact that he's only 24. What's the ceiling on what everyone would be willing to pay for McKinney? I also think it could be a good idea to double down on secondary if Fuller walks. McKinney + Kenny Moore. I'd like to keep Fuller if possible, but his market value is 14M vs Moore's market value of 8M. McKinney’s been my top guy on this thread. Watched him once live when he was with Alabama and I fixated much of that game on him, talked about it back then on the draft thread. He struck me as a smart player who was always around the ball. With the Giants he’s been good against the run and pass. Team captain. He comes off like a dude with a lot of personality so he likely wouldn’t have been Ron’s speed but I suspect the next coaching staff would warm up to adding some energy to that locker room. I would go as high as 13 million a year if need be Edited January 19 by Skinsinparadise 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Not big news but a player that intrigued me last year that reupped with us. Height and soft hands. Commanders' Brycen Tremayne: Sticking with Washington - CBSSports.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 They have us signing Danielle Hunter, Josh Uche, Trent Brown, Connor Williams and one of 3 TE's and ILB's. Honestly, a DL of Hunter, Allen, Payne and Uche would be plenty good. Imagine if we had an OL next year of Leno, Cosmi, JPJ, Beebe, and Trent Brown. That is such a huge, huge upgrade from this year. Watching people run through this exercise really reinforces how big a jump I think we could make. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 ^^^ If they were able to bring in Hunter alone that would be a giant add. I really like Uche as well if they miss the big names. I doubt they take 2 bigger name Edge. I could see one good FA Edge and draft one. Same for LB, signing one of the bigger names and a couple lesser names. We are going to need to understand the DC's plan which could play into which players are the best fit. Connor was my #1 target for this OL but he tore his ACL in mid December. Would they still sign him with him working his way back from that? May Cushenberry or do they go Van Pran or JPJ? It's tough to see a rookie C if we have a rookie QB. I did like seeing this guy suggest Wylie at LG. If we are stuck with him, see if he can better handle that position. Others I've seen still have him at RT which cannot happen. Schultz would be a nice addition as the #1 TE! If there's any positions skipped that might come into play would be large fast WR and we will need DB upgrades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Yeah Williams was my num 1 FA target as well but the ACL has scared me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhd24 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: McKinney’s been my top guy on this thread. Watched him once live when he was with Alabama and I fixated much of that game on him, talked about it back then on the draft thread. He struck me as a smart player who was always around the ball. With the Giants he’s been good against the run and pass. Team captain. He comes off like a dude with a lot of personality so he likely wouldn’t have been Ron’s speed but I suspect the next coaching staff would warm up to adding some energy to that locker room. I would go as high as 13 million a year if need be That sounds really odd to me regarding Onwenwu. The Pats have 70 million in cap space. They are going to draft a QB at 3. Why would they let Onwenwu go? If they can't come to an agreement, then franchise him and play the comp pick game next year as they'll spend this off-season because they have so much cap room. If Onwenwu was available, he'd be easily my #1 target in FA. He could come in and play RT right away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I’m sure Bill will try and drag the best NE free agents to wherever he lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I don’t mind still going after Connor Williams, assuming his surgery went well. With that said, we could look to the draft instead, hope a rookie or Stromberg can become our long term center, and put that money toward TE/ILB/db instead. I share the concerns of pairing a rookie center with a rookie qb, but 1) you can alleviate that a bit by having quality veteran guards next to the rookie center, and 2) we’re almost certainly not competing for a title next year, so you can let them take their lumps a bit and grow together. And of course, Stromberg (or even Gates) could play until the rook is deemed ready if necessary. Brown’s ability to play LT/RT is appealing, particularly in how it opens up the draft a bit. As for edge, I’d look to add a top guy (Hunter) and then maybe a 1 year deal for either a Clowney to Toohill type (a decent enough guy that can compete with Henry/Jones/a draft pick and/or rotate in) or an up-and-coming guy that maybe hasn’t put it all together yet. Feel like Uche is going to want a lot more than 7.5mil… Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to add 2 good defensive ends, but again, we still ought to address ILB/TE/db and the above costs will add up quickly. I’m super torn on receiver. Feels like costs have skyrocketed since Kirk signed. Yet it’s not hard to think that giving a rookie qb a high end weapon to pair with McLaurin might be worth more than a decent DE (a second one), good ILB and a db. Given the relative depth of the draft class at receiver though, I think I lean toward a more marginal FA receiver (a-la Pringle/Crowder). DB is going to be interesting. My guess is they go for a high end safety and a 1 year deal on a good corner (like Gilmore). Intrigued to see how it all plays out. Wonder how we’ll be perceived by free agents given the contrast of us feeling like a project, vs the excitement of potential with a good FO, hopefully good coaching staff and top drafted qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/15/2024 at 8:10 AM, CapsSkins said: Jackson at least could help the other guys learn the new blocking scheme. Not necessarily. Ben has been under a lot of different offensive minds and does not come from any one tree. There is a school of thought that he is running the scheme he is running in Detroit because of Campbell’s preferences 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Skins Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Really like that Skinny, apart from having Gates at centre kill our shiny new QB!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 28 minutes ago, UK Skins said: Really like that Skinny, apart from having Gates at centre kill our shiny new QB!!!! Thanks, and yeah, that would not be ideal of course. I’d pencil in Stromberg and the rook over Gates, but if Gates looks a lot more polished, particularly in setting protections? Oh well. At least he’d (hopefully) have a better LG next to him and we have young guys developing to take over for him. I didn’t spell it out, but my main goal in FA would be to add a blend of high end players and short contracts for either younger guys trying to break through, or vets that help 1) up the competition level for positions and 2) fill holes while we draft/develop young guys. In other words, no Wylie’s or Gates’… I’m curious how market values will shake out. I’m expecting some pretty wild contracts. We have the benefit of lots of cap space and a cheap qb room, but I’m thinking our cap space can thin out in a hurry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 If we sign a vet LG then any rookie C would be sandwiched by two quality vets. I'd be okay with that. I like the idea of Maye and someone like Powers-Johnson growing together for the next decade. Our version of Manning/Saturday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I don't see many big signings early in Free agency even though we have the cap room for it, reflected in Peter's remark "we will build through the draft". I'm ok with that, I have always felt the early big money signings are poor value over time. With 6 picks in the top 105, we can fill some of these holes with draftees, but 2 positions stand out to me as needing to be addressed in FA with significant $$: LT and LB. To protect the new QB, and address the LB void we have ignored for years. I don't know if they even hit free agency, but LT Tyron Smith and LBs Devin White or Patrick Queen would be great additions (depending on scheme fit with new DC). I know there are others, but those names stick out to me. If LT and LB were filled with a good FA, and then Peter's does his thing during the draft (assuming a top QB as part of the draft class), then I will be ecstatic. WRs, and guys like McKinney and Moore, while talented, would be much less exciting for me than LT / LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) Wrong thread Edited January 20 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Wrong thread Tease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 5 hours ago, KillBill26 said: I don't see many big signings early in Free agency even though we have the cap room for it, reflected in Peter's remark "we will build through the draft". I'm ok with that, I have always felt the early big money signings are poor value over time. With 6 picks in the top 105, we can fill some of these holes with draftees, but 2 positions stand out to me as needing to be addressed in FA with significant $$: LT and LB. To protect the new QB, and address the LB void we have ignored for years. I don't know if they even hit free agency, but LT Tyron Smith and LBs Devin White or Patrick Queen would be great additions (depending on scheme fit with new DC). I know there are others, but those names stick out to me. If LT and LB were filled with a good FA, and then Peter's does his thing during the draft (assuming a top QB as part of the draft class), then I will be ecstatic. WRs, and guys like McKinney and Moore, while talented, would be much less exciting for me than LT / LB. Yeah I don't see us signing any big names on day 1. But we have $90 Mil in space, a lot of roster spots because of impending FAs, and there is a minimum spend requirement. We'll have to do something in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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