The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[NickyJ]

25 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

 Now did you say your Grand paw has a big tool bag and plays in the USFL and drives a McLauren?  And Terry is older than the hills on your grandmothers chest? Mr. Mago dropped another football? Did the ES talent evaluator stay in a holiday Express before your chat?  You have Maurice and DeAndre in your lineup this week?  It's all clear now, I can see the light now, wait for it, 20 mil Terry is still here. The End, Do you see it? 

I cannot see it, for it would be a dark, dark day if the Commies held on to even one of its WRs. Dark enough that I'd need a flashlight to see it. All the WRs need to all be gone. Toolbag McLauren, Dropsy Dotson, the whole lot of them. Even if it's for 6th round draft picks, EVERYONE. MUST. GO.

[kingdaddy]

7 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

Dotson was drafted middle of the first it's his 2nd year has not lived up to it, Terry was drafted 3rd rd. earned a 2nd. contract both played on same condtions. Terry has had a different QB every year too. Why do you trade him, we have no cap problem, because he is 28 years old.?    Bring someone in who can beat him out first.

I don't necessarily want to trade Terry but if someone offered a 1st round pick for him I'd certainly consider it. But I'm not dying to trade Terry Mac. I hope he's part of the solution moving forward.

19 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

Would you trade Terry?  Maybe we could take another WR from Colorado with the pick for Terry too (Westbrooke) to replace our WR1? No.3 WR for you to be correct about Dotson, Samuels played much better and can hold on to the ball in crunch time.  Do you replace the players who earn their contract and keep the dead weight because you can get a higher pick in a total rebuild?  Samuels and the rest go first in a total rebuild if it came down to it but Dotson before Terry. That's my point and opinion in any rebuild for me. I think you do not want to lose Dotson as much as I do not want to lose Terry or Allen. 2 more holes to fill too. 

I almost think Terry and Dotson should be more vocal about not getting the ball moving forward. We could use a good sideline rant from someone to show that they're nor satisfied. Based on what Sweat and Chase said our coaches could stand some accountability from the players.

[Darrell Green Fan]

They were forced to do it based on the big contracts for the DTs but I always believed the Sweat trade will backfire. Not much chance the pick gets a better player regardless of position, FA edges are too expensive and this will be a hole for a while I'm afraid.  

 

I am not onboard with the idea of trading Terry. He is the only legit WR they have on the roster.  

Edited December 23, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[method man]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

They were forced to do it based on the big contracts for the DTs but I always believed the Sweat trade will backfire. Not much chance the pick gets a better player regardless of position, FA edges are too expensive and this will be a hole for a while I'm afraid.  

 

I am not onboard with the idea of trading Terry. He is the only legit WR they have on the roster.  

The mistake they made with Sweat was not getting the extension done after the 2021 season or last season. EDGE salaries have exploded

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, method man said:

The mistake they made with Sweat was not getting the extension done after the 2021 season or last season. EDGE salaries have exploded

Yeah it should have been completed before the season began...and the new ownership would have been able to approve the contract.

[method man]

7 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Yeah it should have been completed before the season began...and the new ownership would have been able to approve the contract.

A good piece of this is also Harris’s fault with the “sit back and observe approach.” They could’ve gotten an extension done during camp

[philibusters]

In terms of trading spots for Sam Howell if we do trade him, Denver is now on my radar.  Denver will be picking 14th.  They just benched Russell Wilson.  If they choose not to go with him next year, they will be on a real tight cap and need a cheap option at QB.  At 14, Williams, Maye, and Daniels are very likely all off the board.   Nix and Penix will likely be on the board, but 14 is a **** rich for them as they are more second round talents.  What would be a fair trade with Denver.  Ideally from our perspective a second.  Second best scenario would be a pair of thirds.   Third best case would be we get a second rounder and give them a 4th.  Fourth best would be we get one third and one fourth rounder.

 

Since Sean McVay spoke well of Howell, I could see that being another trading spot.  But they will have at least one more year of Stafford so they don't have a desperate need.   Probably realistically the best we could do from the Rams is a third rounder.   They get a trial to see if he can be Stafford's heir.  

 

Either trade would be good for Howell as working with McVay or Payton is likely to help him improve.  I think they would both really appreciate his work ethic and maturity.

[skinsfan66]

14 minutes ago, philibusters said:

In terms of trading spots for Sam Howell if we do trade him, Denver is now on my radar.  Denver will be picking 14th.  They just benched Russell Wilson.  If they choose not to go with him next year, they will be on a real tight cap and need a cheap option at QB.  At 14, Williams, Maye, and Daniels are very likely all off the board.   Nix and Penix will likely be on the board, but 14 is a **** rich for them as they are more second round talents.  What would be a fair trade with Denver.  Ideally from our perspective a second.  Second best scenario would be a pair of thirds.   Third best case would be we get a second rounder and give them a 4th.  Fourth best would be we get one third and one fourth rounder.

 

Since Sean McVay spoke well of Howell, I could see that being another trading spot.  But they will have at least one more year of Stafford so they don't have a desperate need.   Probably realistically the best we could do from the Rams is a third rounder.   They get a trial to see if he can be Stafford's heir.  

 

Either trade would be good for Howell as working with McVay or Payton is likely to help him improve.  I think they would both really appreciate his work ethic and maturity.

Both places seem to be good places for Howell to land and a 3rd sounds about right. I think he would have to go if you draft one of the top 3QB's. Stafford and the Rams being the better spot. Brissett seems to be the better fit if it happened to stay.

Edited December 28, 2023 by skinsfan66

[KDawg]

So, I don’t really want to put this into the ether… but…

 

With a lack of solid OL options in FA (it’s okay for IOL, awful for OT) and a ton of cap room…

 

If our new regime (not in place yet, obviously, so this is throwing things at the wall) doesn’t go QB with the first pick and opts to trade back or whatever…

 

Kirk Cousins is going to be our quarterback… isn’t he?

[Redskins 2021]

Cousins to Denver 

 

Wilson to Minnesota 

 

Would like to see Howell get back shot with Harrison at Wr.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[CapsSkins]

6 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Cousins to Denver 

 

Wilson to Minnesota 

 

Would like to see Howell get back shot with Harrison at Wr.

 

 

Why would Cousins go to Denver over staying in Minnesota?

[mac8887]

7 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

Both places seem to be good places for Howell to land and a 3rd sounds about right. I think he would have to go if you draft one of the top 3QB's. Stafford and the Rams being the better spot. Brissett seems to be the better fit if it happened to stay.

After his performance this year especially in December you seriously think you could get a 2nd, or a 3rd or a 4th? He is a failed 5th round project. This last month has killed any draft value he had. I could maybe see him and our 7th for a 6th but that's about it. He might could fetch a 7th but that's asking a lot.

[skinsfan66]

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

After his performance this year especially in December you seriously think you could get a 2nd, or a 3rd or a 4th? He is a failed 5th round project. This last month has killed any draft value he had. I could maybe see him and our 7th for a 6th but that's about it. He might could fetch a 7th but that's asking a lot.

Sure do, I agreed 3rd. with poster. LA , Broncos would be a perfect landing spot. QB's have more Value. I would take a chance that it was all against him here and he deserves another shot after how (he carried the team earlier) sitting behind a real QB and having a Coach with a plan, L.A. Not to mention a pretty good backup if that is how it ended. Brissett is your 6th or 7th pick that's why he is still here, everybody knows he is a backup and spot starter. Comp pick for us. Look at Lawerence performance the last 5 games on a better team 3 years later.   

 

 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Sure do, I agreed 3rd. with poster. LA , Broncos would be a perfect landing spot. QB's have more Value. I would take a chance that it was all against him here and he deserves another shot after how (he carried the team earlier) sitting behind a real QB and having a Coach with a plan, L.A. Not to mention a pretty good backup if that is how it ended. Brissett is your 6th or 7th pick that's why he is still here, everybody knows he is a backup and spot starter. Comp pick for us. Look at Lawerence performance the last 5 games on a better team 3 years later.   

 

 

You know… this isn’t a bad point. 
 

Trevor Lawrence was 3-14 his first season as a starter.  59.6%, threw 602 passes, 3641 yards 12 TD and 17 INT. He was only sacked 32 times, though.

 

Howell was 5-11 in his first 16 games. 576 passes, 63%, 20 TD, 18 INT but 63 sacks.

 

Similar. Both had bad coaching situations. Howell has a worse line but Lawrence is also better at navigating the pocket. The biggest difference is opportunities based on draft position.

 

But hits add up And Howell sure as hell looks Ramsey’d.

Edited December 28, 2023 by KDawg

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Kirk Cousins is going to be our quarterback… isn’t he?

I’d be ok with that.

[KDawg]

Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’d be ok with that.

So you’re saying… you… like… that?

[Redskins 2021]

52 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Why would Cousins go to Denver over staying in Minnesota?

 I think was reading Minnesota was looking for a Qb who could run aliitle more.

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 I think was reading Minnesota was looking for a Qb who could run aliitle more.

 

Gotcha. Nevertheless, with Wilson's humongous dead cap charge, Denver won't be able to spend big for a veteran like Cousins. They're going to get somebody cheap - either a rookie, or someone on a rookie contract, or a cheap stop-gap veteran.

[mac8887]

22 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Sure do, I agreed 3rd. with poster. LA , Broncos would be a perfect landing spot. QB's have more Value. I would take a chance that it was all against him here and he deserves another shot after how (he carried the team earlier) sitting behind a real QB and having a Coach with a plan, L.A. Not to mention a pretty good backup if that is how it ended. Brissett is your 6th or 7th pick that's why he is still here, everybody knows he is a backup and spot starter. Comp pick for us. Look at Lawerence performance the last 5 games on a better team 3 years later.   

 

 

Howell is literally ducking his head in clean pockets knowing he is about to get hit when there is nobody around him. Once qbs get to that level of seeing ghost it doesn't get better. 

 

I feel bad for him he had promise but nobody is going to give a third for a broken qb when they can find their own project in the draft while still having 4 years on the cheap.

 

People can't keep comparing qbs based on their first season. It makes no sense. Sam and Trevor are 2 different players with 2 extremely different evaluations from very smart people in the league. Nobody other than a couple of crazy guys in this board would even think about picking sam over trevor. 99.9% would think it a joke.

 

Both Troy aikmen and heath Shuler both sucked their first year. Only one got better. Just because 2 different players suck doesn't mean they are the same

[skinsmania123]

22 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 I think was reading Minnesota was looking for a Qb who could run aliitle more.

I can't imagine Minnesota starting over at the QB position if they do not have to. You have Jefferson lobbying for Cousin's return, plus the QB's they have gone through in his absence, Dobbs and Mullens, have not been good.  On this board we are talking about all the unknowns of drafting a new QB. With Cousin's you do not have that. He is very good. Not great but very good.  And from what I have heard in his interviews he wants to stay in Minnesota. I mean he has been there 8 years now. I think you could get 2-3 years more out of him.  

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Howell is literally ducking his head in clean pockets knowing he is about to get hit when there is nobody around him. Once qbs get to that level of seeing ghost it doesn't get better. 

 

I feel bad for him he had promise but nobody is going to give a third for a broken qb when they can find their own project in the draft while still having 4 years on the cheap.

 

People can't keep comparing qbs based on their first season. It makes no sense. Sam and Trevor are 2 different players with 2 extremely different evaluations from very smart people in the league. Nobody other than a couple of crazy guys in this board would even think about picking sam over trevor. 99.9% would think it a joke.

 

Both Troy aikmen and heath Shuler both sucked their first year. Only one got better. Just because 2 different players suck doesn't mean they are the same

 

I think I agree with your overall point on Howell being broken. 

 

But... semi off-topic... I don't look at Trevor Lawrence and see a top 5 potential QB. Top 10? Sure. But... does that mean Jacksonville should draft a QB if they find themselves in position to next year? Always a tough conversation to have. I'd say no. But rookie contract versus Trevor Lawrence deal is huge. But I think when you get those top 10-15 guys it's hard to just move on. So I think they should and will sign him. 

[skinsfan66]

10 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Howell is literally ducking his head in clean pockets knowing he is about to get hit when there is nobody around him. Once qbs get to that level of seeing ghost it doesn't get better. 

 

I feel bad for him he had promise but nobody is going to give a third for a broken qb when they can find their own project in the draft while still having 4 years on the cheap.

 

People can't keep comparing qbs based on their first season. It makes no sense. Sam and Trevor are 2 different players with 2 extremely different evaluations from very smart people in the league. Nobody other than a couple of crazy guys in this board would even think about picking sam over trevor. 99.9% would think it a joke.

 

Both Troy aikmen and heath Shuler both sucked their first year. Only one got better. Just because 2 different players suck doesn't mean they are the same

Coach change might help with his tech, having a real vet instead of learning on the fly might make the difference. You don't sound like you feel bad for him, sounds more like you want him to be bad. I was not comparing him to Trever and who was better,you put that in there. My point is he was not much better than the 5th rd. pick. these last 5 games. If I could not get more than a third I would keep him. Troy Aikman 1st pick in the Draft won 1 game with a young HOF RB.WR,TE,OL, CB, Coach.......  since you brought it up. How come it took him 2 years?  The Joke is your post and the way you twist things 99.9% would agree. 

[mac8887]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

I think I agree with your overall point on Howell being broken. 

 

But... semi off-topic... I don't look at Trevor Lawrence and see a top 5 potential QB. Top 10? Sure. But... does that mean Jacksonville should draft a QB if they find themselves in position to next year? Always a tough conversation to have. I'd say no. But rookie contract versus Trevor Lawrence deal is huge. But I think when you get those top 10-15 guys it's hard to just move on. So I think they should and will sign him. 

I don't think Jacksonville would take 3 1st round picks for lawrence. Once you got a top 10qb I'd even say as far as top 12qb you pay him. Even if you back slide a little as a team the first 2 years of the contract by the 3rd year some money will free up due to guarantees being paid, rising salary cap, and restructuring and you can afford to add proven talent.

 

a wild card team can get hot at the right time, especially with good qb play during a down year where the qb contract was prohibitive in adding proven talent.

 

Once you know you got a guy you pay him and focus on adding young guys through the draft or by trading picks for proven players if you know your real close to being a superbowl contender. Especially if you feel you can extend them

 

One last point is Once you've got a top half of the league guy and you know it, there is a better chance that he will get even better barring injury and have some seasons where he might be top 5 and some top 8, rather than regressing especially if he's in the same offense. Until his age comes into factor and then the decision gets harder, but qbs are playing longer

 

 

7 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Coach change might help with his tech, having a real vet instead of learning on the fly might make the difference. You don't sound like you feel bad for him, sounds more like you want him to be bad. I was not comparing him to Trever and who was better,you put that in there. My point is he was not much better than the 5th rd. pick. these last 5 games. If I could not get more than a third I would keep him. Troy Aikman 1st pick in the Draft won 1 game with a young HOF RB.WR,TE,OL, CB, Coach.......  since you brought it up. How come it took him 2 years?  The Joke is your post and the way you twist things 99.9% would agree. 

Why would I want Sam to be bad, I'm just stating the fact that he is. I wish he was good and was leading us into the playoffs

[skinsfan66]

3 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I don't think Jacksonville would take 3 1st round picks for lawrence. Once you got a top 10qb I'd even say as far as top 12qb you pay him. Even if you back slide a little as a team the first 2 years of the contract by the 3rd year some money will free up due to guarantees being paid, rising salary cap, and restructuring and you can afford to add proven talent.

 

a wild card team can get hot at the right time, especially with good qb play during a down year where the qb contract was prohibitive in adding proven talent.

 

Once you know you got a guy you pay him and focus on adding young guys through the draft or by trading picks for proven players if you know your real close to being a superbowl contender. Especially if you feel you can extend them

 

One last point is Once you've got a top half of the league guy and you know it, there is a better chance that he will get even better barring injury and have some seasons where he might be top 5 and some top 8, rather than regressing especially if he's in the same offense. Until his age comes into factor and then the decision gets harder, but qbs are playing longer

 

 

Why would I want Sam to be bad, I'm just stating the fact that he is. I wish he was good and was leading us into the playoffs

Top 3 pick in his draft that is playing his way out of a playoff spot in the weakest division in the NFL, started 8/3 lost 4 in a row.  Right now he is 13 in the no.s game that someone else posted, but go ahead and sign him for 60Mil for the next 4/5 years. I am not interested in him in a Lawerence debate just used him as a comparison about play. 

[MrJL]

13 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

 

 

Why would I want Sam to be bad, I'm just stating the fact that he is. I wish he was good and was leading us into the playoffs

 

because you can say that it's time to move on.  Also for some fans he doesn't have to be good enough to be leading us to the playoffs to be worth another year