Broken #1QB. Now who should start?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 hours ago, petey hodge said:

I find it weird that some of the fans want to start tanking with 10 more games in the season.  Do you think the players want to endure 10 more losses?  That psychological trauma may turn promising, young players into a bunch of WJ3s or worse (Sua Cravens).

 

Let them eat a little.

I understand that obviously the players and coaches don’t want to lose.  
 

That said, I think the majority are well versed enough in losing that one more season of it won’t cause any further trauma.

 

This team desperately needs a QB.  Beyond that, I think the losing only helps make Dan less attractive to potential suitors for a stadium. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Y'all are some Negative Nancys (Nancies plural?).

It happens fast. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think you missed the point.

 

It’s not that we want to lose for a draft pick. It’s that we, year after year, win enough to be in contention and then find a way to miss the playoffs. 
 

That leaves us, again on a regular basis, not in the playoffs and with a late teens draft pick. 
 

The land of can kicking.

 

We got an owner who seems to believe that 9-7 and getting that last playoff spot every 4 years or so is the new SB for this team -- supposedly has no interest in a rebuild.  Bruce has alluded to this even Ron in his opening press conference alluded to it.  Future is always now to Dan.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We got an owner who seems to believe that 9-7 and getting that last playoff spot every 4 years or so is the new SB for this team -- supposedly has no interest in a rebuild.  Bruce has alluded to this even Ron in his opening press conference alluded to it.  Future is always now to Dan.

We have fans that think that way as well. Hell, I was that way for a long time.

 

And here’s the thing they don’t understand about the “tired of the same ol” group (me and people who think like me): We want to win and be good, too. And to cheer for a winner.

 

But we’ve seen the movie. We know where we end up: in the middle.

 

We win when it doesn’t matter. And lose when it does. They aren’t wrong that we can find good players in the back half of the first. But we aren’t finding game changers there. Solid players. Davis is coming along nice and I like him a lot. But he isn’t Herbert, Tu’a, Burrow, , Lawrence. 
 

Maybe Howell pans out… and I DO have hope there. I think he really can. But there’s a reason we are the way we are. We’ve seen the movie. It ends the same.

[Warhead36]

I mean I'm not gonna sit here and root for guys like McLaurin, Gibson, Allen, Payne, Curl etc. to lose. They're good players and they're gonna play hard and try to win as they should. They deserve to be cheered for.

 

A coach can't actively tank or he loses the locker room. Remember Doug Pederson in the 2020 finale? When he benched Jalen Hurts the team basically mutinied. Couple days later he got fired. 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean I'm not gonna sit here and root for guys like McLaurin, Gibson, Allen, Payne, Curl etc. to lose. They're good players and they're gonna play hard and try to win as they should. They deserve to be cheered for.

 

A coach can't actively tank or he loses the locker room. Remember Doug Pederson in the 2020 finale? When he benched Jalen Hurts the team basically mutinied. Couple days later he got fired. 

Can I ask a question?

 

Who is actively doing that? I mean, really? This kind of thing is silly.

 

I don’t want us to lose. I just don’t want us to win only to screw it up later and leave us where we always are. I’m not sitting here (and I speak for 90% of the people in this boat) saying, “JUST LOSE!” simply because I hate our players and team so much I want it totally blown up.

 

The point is: if we’re going to win: win. Be a good team that can genuinely challenge and make the playoffs. Once you’re in the playoffs anything can happen. I knew us winning the division two years ago probably wasn’t great for the long term but I was all in and god damn was it fun.

 

The problem is the years you win enough games to be middle of the pack but not be in the playoffs.

 

It’s hard to build from there, especially when your owner is Dan Snyder and it’s already tough to draw talent. The draft is the place you can really make headway. 
 

I don’t actively root for this team to lose and most of us all want the same thing.

 

Sure there are some who are a touch overzealous. But that goes both ways.

Edited October 25, 2022 by KDawg

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Can I ask a question?

 

Who is actively doing that? I mean, really? This kind of thing is silly.

There are people doing that. 

 

Reg. the rest of your post, I don't disagree. But there are good players available at every pick in every round of the draft. 

[ananoman]

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

We have fans that think that way as well. Hell, I was that way for a long time.

 

And here’s the thing they don’t understand about the “tired of the same ol” group (me and people who think like me): We want to win and be good, too. And to cheer for a winner.

 

But we’ve seen the movie. We know where we end up: in the middle.

 

We win when it doesn’t matter. And lose when it does. They aren’t wrong that we can find good players in the back half of the first. But we aren’t finding game changers there. Solid players. Davis is coming along nice and I like him a lot. But he isn’t Herbert, Tu’a, Burrow, , Lawrence. 
 

Maybe Howell pans out… and I DO have hope there. I think he really can. But there’s a reason we are the way we are. We’ve seen the movie. It ends the same.

Until Dan Snyder is no longer in then picture, it all really doesn't matter

[KDawg]

Just now, ananoman said:

Until Dan Snyder is no longer in then picture, it all really doesn't matter

Agreed.

Just now, Warhead36 said:

There are people doing that. 

 

Reg. the rest of your post, I don't disagree. But there are good players available at every pick in every round of the draft. 

I countered that in a different post.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

There are people doing that. 

Who?

 

Just because I know what’s best for the team (losing) doesn’t mean I’m actively rooting for their opponent.

 

I can’t root against guys like TMC, Allen, etc.  

 

But I know those guys would prosper with both an ownership change and a quarterback.  They need that to ever win meaningful games in this town.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

41 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Can I ask a question?

 

Who is actively doing that? I mean, really? This kind of thing is silly.

 

I don’t want us to lose. I just don’t want us to win only to screw it up later and leave us where we always are. I’m not sitting here (and I speak for 90% of the people in this boat) saying, “JUST LOSE!” simply because I hate our players and team so much I want it totally blown up.

 

The point is: if we’re going to win: win. Be a good team that can genuinely challenge and make the playoffs. Once you’re in the playoffs anything can happen. I knew us winning the division two years ago probably wasn’t great for the long term but I was all in and god damn was it fun.

 

The problem is the years you win enough games to be middle of the pack but not be in the playoffs.

 

It’s hard to build from there, especially when your owner is Dan Snyder and it’s already tough to draw talent. The draft is the place you can really make headway. 
 

I don’t actively root for this team to lose and most of us all want the same thing.

 

Sure there are some who are a touch overzealous. But that goes both ways.

Fair points, but you've got to win if you want to have a chance of breaking the cycle. So I guess be happy when the team wins when there's still plenty of season left and anything can happen if they get hot. It's different if they've won two games with one to go, then that's just silly.

 

Continually sucking each year and then relying on an unknown rookie who you hope will be the difference maker to turn the franchise around is bad. It's rough for fans, and it's an awful lot to ask from a rookie.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Professor_Nutter_Butter

[NoCalMike]

If it wasn't for the rest of the NFC East having the records they do, I would be a lot more open to the idea of a turn around happening because the NFC as a conference is pretty mediocre outside of Philly right now.  Even the "good teams" don't seem like they are developing into juggernauts. 

[petey hodge]

11 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think you missed the point.

 

It’s not that we want to lose for a draft pick. It’s that we, year after year, win enough to be in contention and then find a way to miss the playoffs. 
 

That leaves us, again on a regular basis, not in the playoffs and with a late teens draft pick. 
 

The land of can kicking.

mmmkay

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

mmmkay

You can’t be afraid of all high picks because we whiffed on one. Stop it.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Just now, KDawg said:

You can’t be afraid of all high picks because we whiffed on one. Stop it.

Hopefully that number stays at 1* (Chase Young, I’m lookin at you) 

 
*assuming you’re referring to griffin being the whiff? 

 

[petey hodge]

Really tho.

 

our high draft picks only seem to blossom for their rookie year.

 

looking at you Bob Griffen the third!

[KDawg]

24 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Hopefully that number stays at 1* (Chase Young, I’m lookin at you) 

 
*assuming you’re referring to griffin being the whiff? 

 

I was referring to Shuler. Griffin was a whiff but that was a Snyder/Shanahan hating each other and Griffin being caught in the crossfire special.

[Zim489]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

We have fans that think that way as well. Hell, I was that way for a long time.

 

And here’s the thing they don’t understand about the “tired of the same ol” group (me and people who think like me): We want to win and be good, too. And to cheer for a winner.

 

But we’ve seen the movie. We know where we end up: in the middle.

 

We win when it doesn’t matter. And lose when it does. They aren’t wrong that we can find good players in the back half of the first. But we aren’t finding game changers there. Solid players. Davis is coming along nice and I like him a lot. But he isn’t Herbert, Tu’a, Burrow, , Lawrence. 
 

Maybe Howell pans out… and I DO have hope there. I think he really can. But there’s a reason we are the way we are. We’ve seen the movie. It ends the same.

The amount of times I have been called a fake fan is absurd. Rooting for losses. Ill never understand how some people dont understand that We dont want to lose but its a necessary evil to get out of the 1 oar paddling in circles we have been doing 

[TMK9973]

53 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You can’t be afraid of all high picks because we whiffed on one. Stop it.

Wiffed one 1?

Patrick Ramsey, Haskins, RG3, Jason Campbell all 1st Round QB picks. 

 

In the last 30 years we have had 10 top 5 draft picks.  TEN!! 1/3rd of ALL our drafts over last 30 years.  5 in the last 12 years!! ALMOST HALF!! 

 

How many years should we root to lose to get a higher draft pick? You know what else you need to build a good team besides high draft picks?  FA's to stay and to come to your team.  They tend to not want to do that unless 1 -You pay over market or 2- They think they can win with you. 

 

Winning as much as possible helps that.  Look - If there are 5 or 6 games left and we are sitting at 4-7 I will probably agree with you. But there are 10 games left.  We are 1 game out of he wild card, on a 2 game win streak.  HELL YEAH Im gonna root for us to win!! 

 

To add -Number of top 5 draft picks in the last 12 years

Washington - 4

Eagles -2 (And one of those is Wentz)

Cowboys - 1

Giants - 3

 

If Getting a top 5 draft pick is the secret to long term success -We should be winning the NFC east every year.  

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by TMK9973

[Zim489]

Our draft slot since 2001:15 18 13 5 9 22 6 21 13 4 10 6 22 2(Shanny actively submarining the team on his way out) 5 21 17 13 15 2(Bruce Allens roster management finally caught up) 19 11

 

We rarely if ever pick top 5. Its usually in the middling late single digits into the middle teens.

 

Our last "real" swing was back in 2012 with RG3. Dwayne was a dan pick through and through that never would have been a first rounder had it nont been for him. 

 

Im going to keep yelling about tanking until we have a young stud top tier prospect to build around cause its step one of creating a winning franchise. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Zim489

[TMK9973]

3 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Our draft slot since 2001:15 18 13 5 9 22 6 21 13 4 10 6 22 2(Shanny actively submarining the team on his way out) 5 21 17 13 15 2(Bruce Allens roster management finally caught up) 19 11

 

We rarely if ever pick top 5. Its usually in the middling late single digits into the middle teens 

4 since 2010.

More then any other NFC East team.

 

Yet somehow they all got better.  AND - NONE of them are playing a QB that was drafted in top 5.  Daniel Jones is the only one drafted in the 1st round!  

 

Im not saying a high draft pick wouldn't help. Of course it would. But to claim that other teams all stink enough to get that draft pick and we never do is just not real. I only looked at NFC east teams but Im guessing that 4 top 5 picks in 12 years is more then most teams.  

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

17 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

Wiffed one 1?

Patrick Ramsey, Haskins, RG3, Jason Campbell all 1st Round QB picks. 

 

In the last 30 years we have had 10 top 5 draft picks.  TEN!! 1/3rd of ALL our drafts over last 30 years.  5 in the last 12 years!! ALMOST HALF!! 

 

How many years should we root to lose to get a higher draft pick? You know what else you need to build a good team besides high draft picks?  FA's to stay and to come to your team.  They tend to not want to do that unless 1 -You pay over market or 2- They think they can win with you. 

 

Winning as much as possible helps that.  Look - If there are 5 or 6 games left and we are sitting at 4-7 I will probably agree with you. But there are 10 games left.  We are 1 game out of he wild card, on a 2 game win streak.  HELL YEAH Im gonna root for us to win!! 

 

To add -Number of top 5 draft picks in the last 12 years

Washington - 4

Eagles -2 (And one of those is Wentz)

Cowboys - 1

Giants - 3

 

If Getting a top 5 draft pick is the secret to long term success -We should be winning the NFC east every year.  

 

High doesn’t mean first round. Why argue that case when you know that’s not what I meant? Ridiculous.

 

And who is rooting to lose? Come on guys, reading comprehension is important. Don’t skim posts. Read them. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by KDawg

[Est.1974]

15 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 

We rarely if ever pick top 5. Its usually in the middling late single digits into the middle teens.

 

Our last "real" swing was back in 2012 with RG3. Dwayne was a dan pick through and through that never would have been a first rounder had it nont been for him. 

 

Im going to keep yelling about tanking until we have a young stud top tier prospect to build around cause its step one of creating a winning franchise. 

I could see a 2023 ‘swing’ in the draft for a QB, major trade to move up the board. Wentz is all but done so a it’ll be throw stupid money at a Jimmy G type or blow a ton of future picks.

[Zim489]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I could see a 2023 ‘swing’ in the draft for a QB, major trade to move up the board. Wentz is all but done so a it’ll be throw stupid money at a Jimmy G type or blow a ton of future picks.

I think theres 2 right now worth getting. I dont think any are worth trading for. Im tired of getting the 2nd or 3rd tier QB prospects. I also dont think we can afford to be giving up top draft picks with the roster severely lacking high end talent across the board. 

[TMK9973]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

High doesn’t mean first round. Why argue that case when you know that’s not what I meant? Ridiculous.

 

And who is rooting to lose? Come on guys, reading comprehension is important. Don’t skim posts. Read them. 

Again - 4 picks in top 5 (Top 5 is high right?) over last 12 years.

Most in NFC east and I would guess on the top side of ALL NFL teams.

 

Try not to skim my posts. Read em