New OC Thread (Welcome Aboard Eric Bieniemy!)

[method man]

3 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

As I mentioned earlier, Tavita was something of a campus legend during his playing career. He sucked but led a big upset win over USC back when Pete Carroll was still there during his final year. 

 

The guy has been in the Harbaugh/Shaw system his whole career as both a player and coach. So, although he never played in the NFL, he has been in a pro system his whole career. I wonder if he is going to have a learning curve to pick up Bienemy's system as a coach. 

 

[dunfer]

2 hours ago, method man said:

 

As I mentioned earlier, Tavita was something of a campus legend during his playing career. He sucked but led a big upset win over USC back when Pete Carroll was still there during his final year. 

 

The guy has been in the Harbaugh/Shaw system his whole career as both a player and coach. So, although he never played in the NFL, he has been in a pro system his whole career. I wonder if he is going to have a learning curve to pick up Bienemy's system as a coach. 

 

 

Whats a bienemy system though? either theyre current or theyre not.

[KDawg]

Tavita feels like a guy they want to groom as a potential successor to Bienemy should he leave. 
 

It sounds like they are working all angles here. That is a major positive. And a new effort from this franchise.

[tomwvr]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:40 PM, FootballZombie said:

 

I don't have an opinion about the presser, other than it can't do anything to change my "meh" stance by its nature of only being a presser.

Everything I've touched on is in regards to his hiring and history w/ KC, which has nothing to do with a welcome press conference, and direct responses to tweets and pics.

 

 

Unless that dude took the time during the presser to call a game there is nothing in there that would change my opinion of the hire.

 

...

 

I'd watch him call a game of Madden tho.

Eric is the best hire this team has made in a very long time

[Command The 414]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Tavita feels like a guy they want to groom as a potential successor to Bienemy should he leave. 
 

It sounds like they are working all angles here. That is a major positive. And a new effort from this franchise.

or once Rivera moves up to FO or out the door or simply retires and Bieniemy steps in to the HC 

[yankstrat]

I heard Mike Florio on Mad Dog sports a few weeks ago.  He was giving his opinion on recent NFL coaching hires.  His opinion was that a team should never hire a defensive coach to be the head coach.  His reasoning was that the most important relationship on the team is that between the head coach and the QB.  If the relationship is developed between the OC and the QB the OC can leave for a HC job, leaving the QB high and dry.  Applying this to Washington, if 2023 is a success and Howell develops, EB can leave and Howell would need to start a new relationship with a new OC.  This is not ideal for a young QB who needs consistency and continuity.

 

Here is my thought.  I am not an insider and not breaking any news...just offering an opinion.  I never quite understood why EB came here to be OC when he was already an OC.  Sure he is out from Reid's wings, making more money and has a Assistant HC title.  But still...an odd move going from KC to Washington as an OC.  What I think is that there is already an agreement in place, at least in principle, that EB will be the new HC.  Of course this is premised on the team having success and the new owner being on board.  However, as between RR and EB, I think this is what they have agreed upon. 

[88Comrade2000]

16 minutes ago, yankstrat said:

I heard Mike Florio on Mad Dog sports a few weeks ago.  He was giving his opinion on recent NFL coaching hires.  His opinion was that a team should never hire a defensive coach to be the head coach.  His reasoning was that the most important relationship on the team is that between the head coach and the QB.  If the relationship is developed between the OC and the QB the OC can leave for a HC job, leaving the QB high and dry.  Applying this to Washington, if 2023 is a success and Howell develops, EB can leave and Howell would need to start a new relationship with a new OC.  This is not ideal for a young QB who needs consistency and continuity.

 

Here is my thought.  I am not an insider and not breaking any news...just offering an opinion.  I never quite understood why EB came here to be OC when he was already an OC.  Sure he is out from Reid's wings, making more money and has a Assistant HC title.  But still...an odd move going from KC to Washington as an OC.  What I think is that there is already an agreement in place, at least in principle, that EB will be the new HC.  Of course this is premised on the team having success and the new owner being on board.  However, as between RR and EB, I think this is what they have agreed upon. 

Only thing, new owner might not be interested.

 

There’s no clue what happens in 24. For Ron to return, at minimum a playoff appearance.  For Sam to go into 24 as QB1, he probably needs to win 7 to 9 games.  That doesn’t seem likely. So, 24 could see massive changes.

[Conn]

29 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Only thing, new owner might not be interested.

 

There’s no clue what happens in 24. For Ron to return, at minimum a playoff appearance.  For Sam to go into 24 as QB1, he probably needs to win 7 to 9 games.  That doesn’t seem likely. So, 24 could see massive changes.

 

Why is winning 7-9 games unlikely? Rivera almost always does that, and we just did it this past season with horrific bottom tier QB play that really can’t get worse. If anything truly bottoming out would be the surprise 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Conn

[method man]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

Tavita feels like a guy they want to groom as a potential successor to Bienemy should he leave. 
 

It sounds like they are working all angles here. That is a major positive. And a new effort from this franchise.

4 of the 5 seasons Tavita was OC resulted in their worst records since Year 1 of Harbaugh at Stanford and that has been with guys like
Mills (who was hurt quite a bit) and McKee at the helm. I haven’t followed them as closely in recent years but that is not encouraging.

[Jumbo]

 

[Koolblue13]

Every interview I see with EB, I always just feel like all he is thinking about is to not curse or get too excited. Like he has to think super hard about what he is saying.

 

I'm the same exact way.

[Jumbo]

21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Every interview I see with EB, I always just feel like all he is thinking about is to not curse or get too excited. Like he has to think super hard about what he is saying.

 

I'm the same exact way.

 

 

Yes, you are. And then some. 😁👹💛

[Koolblue13]

17 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

Yes, you are. And then some. 😁👹💛

I see you too my friend.  ❤️ 

[Koolblue13]

I wonder if EB and Alex Smith have any kind of relationship and if he's a potential coach one day.

 

I do think Ron burned the **** out of that bridge though.

[kingdaddy]

With EB being the Assistant Head Coach I'd love to see him do some of his demanding stuff with Chase Young over on the defensive side. See how far he can push Chase to be great.

[CapsSkins]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

With EB being the Assistant Head Coach I'd love to see him do some of his demanding stuff with Chase Young over on the defensive side. See how far he can push Chase to be great.

 

EB is not going to step on JDRs toes like that. He has his own side of the ball to worry about, anyway.

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by CapsSkins

[filmjoy]

This part of the promo video from the Commanders on EB’s first day cracked me up. Reporter asks how excited he is to work with such talent like “Sam Howell, Terry McLaurin, Jahan Dotson, the list goes on…” Some Howell Hype there!! 
 

All in all a fun watch:

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by filmjoy

[HigSkin]

Good stuff here with some new nuggets.

 

 

[Conn]

love this guy already 

[KDawg]

19 hours ago, Conn said:

 

Why is winning 7-9 games unlikely? Rivera almost always does that, and we just did it this past season with horrific bottom tier QB play that really can’t get worse. If anything truly bottoming out would be the surprise 

Because he wants Rivera gone so it is not likely. He also wants to move the franchise to Mars.

[Going Commando]

17 hours ago, yankstrat said:

His opinion was that a team should never hire a defensive coach to be the head coach.  His reasoning was that the most important relationship on the team is that between the head coach and the QB. 

 

Bill Belichick is a defensive coach.  Don Shula, Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, John Madden, Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, and Mike Tomlin all coached defense too.

 

Hearing Florio pontificate something as dumb as that would get me to turn the radio off.

[Conn]

I mean, I get the thought in the modern game and it’s a common one. If you have a good young QB who produces, his playcaller is going to be stolen and promoted to HC for someone else. So for maximum continuity you’re better off if that guy is already your HC. Otherwise if you happen across a wunderkind offensive mind like a Mike McDaniel, they’re gone as soon as they have some success or show some promise. Now if you already have a Kyle Shanahan developing a pipeline of coaches then that’s fine—but that goes back to the premise of the whole thing, since he’s an offensive guy. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Conn

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, Conn said:

I mean, I get the thought in the modern game and it’s a common one. If you have a good young QB who produces, his playcaller is going to be stolen and promoted to HC for someone else. So for maximum continuity you’re better off if that guy is already your HC. Otherwise if you happen across a wunderkind offensive mind like a Mike McDaniel, they’re gone as soon as they have some success. 

 

Those are ten of the 20 winningest coaches in NFL history, and almost all of them had great relationships with franchise QBs.  Meanwhile an offensive guru in Mike Shanahan had famously terrible relationships with most of his QBs and constantly cycled through the position.  Peyton Manning had an awesome relationship with Tony Dungy.  He would have gotten Mike Shanahan fired within a season or two of working with him.

 

Our own coach Ron Rivera is a defense coach closing in on 100 wins, something no bad coach can do, and he had a long and winning relationship with a franchise QB.

 

Boiling the whole of NFL head coaching down to the relationship between a QB and his play caller is what is dumb.  Being a great head coach involves so much more than that, and head coaches with a background on defense absolutely can and have provided stability, continuity, and the keys to success for some great quarterbacks.  Coaching talent is coaching talent, and attrition on your staff of guys working up the ladder is just a constant for pretty much every industry.  Deciding to sort out half the talent pool for the arbitrary reason that one particular relationship is so much more important than anything else is just dumb.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Those are ten of the 20 winningest coaches in NFL history, and almost all of them had great relationships with franchise QBs.  Meanwhile an offensive guru in Mike Shanahan had famously terrible relationships with most of his QBs and constantly cycled through the position.  Peyton Manning had an awesome relationship with Tony Dungy.  He would have gotten Mike Shanahan fired within a season or two of working with him.

 

Our own coach Ron Rivera is a defense coach closing in on 100 wins, something no bad coach can do, and he had a long and winning relationship with a franchise QB.

 

Boiling the whole of NFL head coaching down to the relationship between a QB and his play caller is what is dumb.  Being a great head coach involves so much more than that, and head coaches with a background on defense absolutely can and have provided stability, continuity, and the keys to success for some great quarterbacks.  Coaching talent is coaching talent, and attrition on your staff of guys working up the ladder is just a constant for pretty much every industry.  Deciding to sort out half the talent pool for the arbitrary reason that one particular relationship is so much more important than anything else is just dumb.

 

I agree with you if your goal is sustaining competitive above average play in a vacuum regardless of QB. Because getting QB right is hard (is it harder for defensive guys, or would you be double-counting offensive success for offensive coaches by trying to sort that out? I don’t know). If you want to shoot for ceiling, it feels obvious to me that the way to achieve something truly special for your franchise in today’s game is to pair a franchise QB with an offensive guru for the majority of his career. 

 

Again, the vast majority of teams don’t even have that option because they never figure out the franchise QB aspect. Maybe if they had an offensive guru their chances at figuring out QB would have been higher, like I wondered above, but maybe not. It might just be that hard to figure out QB that it doesn’t matter.
 

I think there’s a reason the majority of your examples aren’t from the modern game, though. Belichick/Brady and Tomlin/Big Ben are really the main modern examples. Carroll/Wilson began 11 years ago. Harbaugh is the main guy to have done it without a consistent franchise QB throughout his time, and he started 15 years ago. Brady is an all-time anomaly and the Steelers are an A-class organization that I wouldn’t argue against following as a prototype. A HOF QB probably gives you a long career of stability regardless of offensive or defensive head coaching, but that’s hard to find. And again, the main examples are defensive guys from 15-20 years ago who created or continued stability in their organizations by drafting/developing and riding HOF QBs before the modern game fully transitioned into what it is now.
 

Belichick was hired 23 years ago. Tomlin was hired 17 years ago. Harbaugh was hired 15 years ago. Carroll was hired 13 years ago. We don’t really have a more current example of a non-offensive-minded HC pairing with a great QB for a long career of franchise-defining success. That could be a hiccup or it could be a rational changing of the guard. Sean McDermott is going to be a great test case with Josh Allen. So far losing Daboll looks like it has hurt and enriched the Giants, Ken Dorsey is the OC now and if he gets hired away next year we’ll see how the pipeline holds up and if Allen is so damn good that it doesn’t matter who coaches the offense with McDermott at the helm of the team. Staley had Herbert and couldn’t harness it because his choices at OC were poor and not utilizing his obviously studly franchise QB effectively. He had an opportunity to be that next defensive guy with a long career tied to a franchise QB and fumbled it on the offensive side of the ball. 
 

I think you aren’t taking into account the insane turnover among offensive staffs in the modern game as owners/GMs chase these guys who can put up points and develop young QBs. Almost any young QB who has success is seeing their OC hired away, their QB coach promoted to OC, and the continuation of that cycle. Maybe we haven’t even seen enough to know for sure how it plays out over a longer, larger sample size. Maybe there is enough young offensive coaching talent in the league to sustain that cycle. Maybe this line of thought is just wrong, like you’re arguing. But I don’t think it makes sense to be so dismissive of the idea like it’s laughable, the way you’re acting. Other than obvious tenured HOF coaches who had HOF QBs right now, “new” defensive head coaches are not seeing much success. Someone like Gannon in ARI is going to be interesting to watch. He’s a defensive guy who has a young talented QB (once he’s healed up) locked into a franchise contract, replacing an overrated offensive guy who clearly was not the playcalling guru people wanted him to be. So that’s a good test case.
 

I read a whole analytical breakdown about the HC’s in the league who gain expected points based off of aggressive decisions supported by the numbers, and those coaches making those decisions and gaining win%, are overwhelmingly offensive coaches. Defensive coaches are way more likely to be conservative, and hurt their chances to win, by comparison and the numbers bear that out. So there are other potential benefits to this that rely on the mindset of a coach, which can largely be attributed to the side of the ball they come from and how comfortable they are with needing to produce and score offensively. 
 

Anyways, I’m open to what you’re saying. I don’t think putting Rivera and his longevity/compiling of W’s out as an example helps your case because other than one truly special Cam Newton season he’s been pretty pedestrian, so that’s the lack of sustained success I’m talking about in the modern game.
 

But I’m open to the idea that sustained success is so rare and fragile to begin with in a league built for parity that the sample size can never be large enough to be sure if it’s actually about the coaching, or if it’s potentially just about the HOF-level QB play that almost always fuels these long periods of success for franchises. This era of young talented QBs we’re entering, paired with the modern impatience of owners who are willing to blow everything up faster and hire young 30’s-aged coordinators to run the show, will teach us a lot. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Conn

[Dark Acre]

On 2/25/2023 at 9:37 AM, Koolblue13 said:

Every interview I see with EB, I always just feel like all he is thinking about is to not curse or get too excited. Like he has to think super hard about what he is saying.

 

I'm the same exact way.

At a certain point and accomplishment in life, some of us just don't give a pooop about what the Heck we say, when, where, or to whom.  AFAIGAF, knowing when to use "to whom" makes up for every single, GD swear word I accidentally utter (because one of the glories of the English language is the beauty of a well-placed F or S).   HTTR!