New OC Thread (Welcome Aboard Eric Bieniemy!)

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

It also makes you wonder if EB was RR's target all along with Josina Anderson's curious report Bienemy's deal "is finalized" and has "already been" finalized before today, per league source..

 

I would say it was.

 

The next thing is people wondering why they interviewed Roman, then. Well, 1) if Bienemy decided to go elsewhere it's due diligence. And 2) Was there anything in Roman's contract with Baltimore that says to get paid he has to try to gain employment? If so, Rivera could have done him a solid. I thought I read that somewhere but no idea where.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

No Bruce love for cleaning up free agent spending lol 

 

 

 

Yep no Bruce love, sorry, for how he handled this team and for that matter FA.  Nada.  Zero.  I wrote tomes about it on the previous FO thread including about FO.  And I argued enough so if the arguments don't hit you with the benefit of hindsight, I don't think they ever will. 

 

I'll sum it up this way -- some on that thread, the positive people about Bruce (you to some extent too) would say we got to appreciate Bruce is a real improvement over Cerrato.  That take hasn't aged well.  They both sucked.  But there is a reason why Cerrato beats Bruce in head to head fan poils, by the media or fan polls on twitter as the lesser of two evils -- and that was before all the sleaze FO stories hit. The reason is Bruce sucked including in FA.

 

Bruce brought the perfect mix of making this team boring (and not in a good way) coupled with incompetence and arrogance that put the finishing touches on the team's demise with fans.  If people want to think he was just carrying Dan's water.  I don't 100% agree.  But I am OK with that thought.  Dan is responsible and he's miles worse than Bruce.

 

But with the power of hindsight, I appreciate all of it because if not for his contribution to the demise, Dan wouldn't be selling the team would be my guess.  So in that context, I love what he did.

 

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I just don’t think players care as much about the things we as fans like to discuss. Media likes to drum any amount of drama to incite fan bases. The buddy program of the NFL attempt at portray they are drenched in values, morals, and principles—100% BS, IMHO. 

 

 

Like the idea that you don't want to believe what was offered for Kirk because it doesn't fit how you think things should be.    The same point applies here IMO, in your mind players don't care.  And i do agree that some don't but some clearly do and those with options everything being equal are inclined to choose elsewhere.  So you stick with it regardless of the facts.  Look there are things I think should happen and should be too.  But it doesn't mean its true.  I want this team to draft Michael Mayer, I can talk myself perhaps into thinking, they must be thinking like me.  But if I found out they don't.  Then they don't.  My thoughts aren't facts, they are opinions, and some bear out and some don't.

 

When you got Logan Paulsen flat out saying its an issue as to attracting players and he knows the FO believes that.  When you got agents saying it to Standig.  When you got an ex-player saying this is a place that other players he knows nevers talks about coming to.  When you go insiders saying they know some QBs would not consider playing here, including Stafford didn't want to come here among others.  All this stuff was posted on different threads, with video and various things to validate it. 

 

And then doesn't even delve into the tomes of speculative stuff in addition to that including they didn't want to risk Wentz being released because if he had options he wouldn't come here.  Story after story like that.  Football Outsiders, an anaylitic based outfit even talked about players not wanting to come to Washington.  

 

To digest that and say its all BS and players really really want to come here, takes a lot of imagination 

 

But bringing this back on point, I do think there is a good chance Bieniemy helps makes this place a desitination spot.  He's a national sports story for a reason.  I think he's a rare positive focal point for this organization and I could see players wanting to play for him.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I would say it was.

 

The next thing is people wondering why they interviewed Roman, then. Well, 1) if Bienemy decided to go elsewhere it's due diligence. And 2) Was there anything in Roman's contract with Baltimore that says to get paid he has to try to gain employment? If so, Rivera could have done him a solid. I thought I read that somewhere but no idea where.

 

I don't know either but makes one wonder if perhaps they might have other plans for Roman, like the RB room?  

 

 

[KDawg]

Just now, HigSkin said:

 

I don't know either but makes one wonder if perhaps they might have other plans for Roman, like the RB room?  

 

 

 

Also entirely possible. The process needs to play out. 

[Est.1974]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I would say it was.

 

The next thing is people wondering why they interviewed Roman, then. Well, 1) if Bienemy decided to go elsewhere it's due diligence. And 2) Was there anything in Roman's contract with Baltimore that says to get paid he has to try to gain employment? If so, Rivera could have done him a solid. I thought I read that somewhere but no idea where.

Yeah that was on here re Roman and needing to interview, in contrast to the guy Arizona fired who then just jetted off to the Far East or something. 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

That depends on how the offense does. We need to see marked improvement in the offense.   Unlike many, I think there’s a ceiling of 7-9 wins. That’s a lot for a qb in his first year starting. EB has show enough that the new owner and his gm will want to keep him and make him the head coach.

 

7-9-1 wiith horrid QB play and terrible playcalling, 7-9 feels more like a floor then ceiling long as we don't mess with the defense too much (*cough, resign Payne NOW).

 

New OC doesn't make us a contender overnight, but no way with a last place schedule as well that we come out next season with the same record, we already better and we haven't even hit FA to see what we do on oline after we get Wentz money back by cutting him.

[FootballZombie]

3 hours ago, Panninho said:

But even if we go with EB being meh, who would have been a better get for us?

Can't just look at him in isolation. It's a very unattractive situation, lame duck year, new ownership looming, assistant coaches making lateral moves to other teams...It's not like this is objectively the place to be for coaching talent. So if you care about avoiding failure, I really don't see how EB is not the best to achieve that.

 

I didn't look at him in isolation, that's why I preferred other targets we interviewed like Lynn. He provided many of the the positives EB does, with a history to back it up.

 

-Comes from a great org that is probably a better realized version of our teams ideal O based on our available current talent.

-Learned from a great teacher in Kyle

-He has run his own NFL O b4

-He has run a whole NFL team as a HC b4, with an overall winning record

 

With a guy like Lynn there are tangible points that exist where you are not taking what he can do on faith like you have to w/ EB. Its like hiring a guy with a resume that says "I have already done the things your looking to do" vs hiring a guy whose resume says "I watched a guy do the things you want me to do who was really good, but I have yet to do them myself."

 

Can he do those things? Maybe? Who knows.

 

I understand everybody has to start somewhere, and there is a chance EB could be good, but his hire to me is the difference between hiring someone you know can do a job vs hiring someone you hope can do the job. I don't hate the move, just not pumped up about it. In a situation where you have to come out swinging we could have picked up a known-unknown, and instead we went all in on the unknown-unknown.... Ya'know?

 

599 × 484

 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by FootballZombie

[samy316]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

7-9-1 wiith horrid QB play and terrible playcalling, 7-9 feels more like a floor then ceiling long as we don't mess with the defense too much (*cough, resign Payne NOW).

 

New OC doesn't make us a contender overnight, but no way with a last place schedule as well that we come out next season with the same record, we already better and we haven't even hit FA to see what we do on oline after we get Wentz money back by cutting him.

The QB is the most important piece of this hiring.  We have no idea how Sam Howell will do next season, since he’s had only one start in his NFL career to date.  He’s essentially a rookie next season.  He’s going to have ups and downs (if he’s indeed the starter next year).  7-10 or 8-9 with a rookie QB feels a lot better than the same record with a backup QB, or a washed up QB (Wentz).  I don’t have much expectations for next season.  We’re solidly a 3rd or 4th place team in the NFCE.  It’ going to be very difficult to surpass the Eagles & Cowboys.  If Howell shows improvement, but we miss the playoffs, it won’t be a big deal to me.  All I want to see is improved play on offense.

Edited February 18, 2023 by samy316

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Also entirely possible. The process needs to play out. 

 

With this franchise even with Andy Reid vouching for Ron Rivera, there is always an outside chance that as he would digest more and something might repel him, so on Rivera's end of things its good to protect yourself just in case.

 

I recall Todd McShay a few years ago talking about in a podcast  that he knew a coach who was considering going to Washington, and he told him you don't want to go there. 

 

I suspect stuff like that happens sometimes.

 

As Dan Graziano said last week there is an "ick" factor.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/35657821/derek-carr-best-fits-free-agency-nfl-teams-quarterback-needs-salary-cap-space

And I don't know... maybe things will change if the team gets sold, but there's something about this franchise. It just seems like bad stuff is always going on around there. Just kind of a high "ick" factor to the place, right? Not sure a ton of guys are dying to go play there.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, samy316 said:

The QB is the most important piece of this hiring.  We have no idea how Sam Howell will do next season, since he’s had only one start in his NFL career to date.  He’s essentially a rookie next season.  He’s going to have ups and downs (if he’s indeed the starter next year).  7-10 or 8-9 with a rookie QB feels a lot better than the same record with a backup QB, or a washed up QB (Wentz).  I don’t have much expectations for next season.  We’re solidly a 3rd or 4th place team in the NFCE.  It’ going to be very difficult to surpass the Eagles & Cowboys.  If Howell shows improvement, but we miss the playoffs, it won’t be a big deal to me.  All I want to see is improved play on offense.

 

I never buy the "we're solidly behind xxxxx" conversations from almost any team. I think there are some you can say it with more conviction (Kansas City is probably going to be better than everyone in the West, for instance) but things are so different year to year in the NFL it's tough to really extrapolate. 

 

The Eagles could be faced with a few retirements and a very large Hurts contract. Yes, Hurts make them a contender. And I think saying the Eagles are a high end contender for the East year to year now is absolutely true. I just don't see it as a lock that it's the case. Likely? Sure. Solidly? I don't think so. They currently have 331k in cap space. 

 

Dallas is Dallas. They will be talented and dangerous. But also dysfunctional and sloppy. 

 

The Giants are still a wild card (which you allude to). Could go either way. They were obviously better than us this past year, but our two franchises were lock-step as a whole. 

 

We'll see. I think ultimately you're probably correct we're a 3rd or fourth place team in the division... the odds certainly will support that. But better OL and QB play and similar defensive play may catapult us quite a bit. Coupled with other teams moves we may be more competitive (or less given our unknowns with Howell, Bienemy, etc.)

[NCRedskins78]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

I'm excited about the hire but LMAO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's ok, Howell will fix the rest of the damage.  😂😂😂

[HigSkin]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

We'll see. I think ultimately you're probably correct we're a 3rd or fourth place team in the division... the odds certainly will support that. But better OL and QB play and similar defensive play may catapult us quite a bit. Coupled with other teams moves we may be more competitive (or less given our unknowns with Howell, Bienemy, etc.)

 

Howell is clearly the X factor.  We went 500 with maybe the worst QB play in the league sans the Jets.  It's reasonable to think that if Howell is just OK, coupled with a better O line we are a playoff team.  

 

The Giants are interesting.  they've devoted resources to the O line yet its considered by some including PFF metrics as worse than ours, ours ranked 20th and theirs ranked 30th.  They got a really good D line though but their defense as a unit isn't good. Daniel Jones played above average.  And Barkley is one of the better backs.  But they have both hiitting FA and while I think they secure both I think they eat up almost all of their cap.  they desperately need some passing weapons.

 

Eagles are going to lose some players.  Dallas as you say is Dallas.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Darrell Green Fan]

9 hours ago, PigskinRedskin said:

Haha

Honestly I am excited to see how the offense can shape up with someone like Bieniemy calling the shots, especially with our receiving corp.

 

Now grab some OL help as well.

 

Of course the cherry on top is bye bye Dan, but some good news for the start of the offseason.

 

My feelings exactly. This is a very good hire, certainly better than we should have expected given the situation.  EB designing plays for a team with good skill players is exciting, it just has to help our new QB provided as you said they upgrade the OL.  This team really has only 2 glaring holes, OL and LB.  Maybe TE but we have some young guys to check out, TEs rarely are productive as rookies. 

 

Not sure how they go about fixing the OL.  It would have been nice had fliers like Charles worked out at either guard or tackle but that didn't seem to happen. The missing in the draft and in FA on the OL has hurt, Cosmi is still a question mark and so are the others.  

[Catatonic]

9 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Not Sold. Lotta hype behind this, i dont think it will work out

I can understand, given the failures we’ve endured, but…

[Renegade7]

34 minutes ago, samy316 said:

The QB is the most important piece of this hiring.  We have no idea how Sam Howell will do next season, since he’s had only one start in his NFL career to date.  He’s essentially a rookie next season.  He’s going to have ups and downs (if he’s indeed the starter next year).  7-10 or 8-9 with a rookie QB feels a lot better than the same record with a backup QB, or a washed up QB (Wentz).  I don’t have much expectations for next season.  We’re solidly a 3rd or 4th place team in the NFCE.  It’ going to be very difficult to surpass the Eagles & Cowboys.  If Howell shows improvement, but we miss the playoffs, it won’t be a big deal to me.  All I want to see is improved play on offense.

 

I hear yea, my main point here is the bar is so low concenring QB and OC right now and we still got to 7-9-1, so to me, same record would be a massive disappointment.

[Darrell Green Fan]

11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I hear yea, my main point here is the bar is so low concenring QB and OC right now and we still got to 7-9-1, so to me, same record would be a massive disappointment.

 

Oh I totally agree.  Not to repeat other posts but that record with the QB, OL and OC issues and a last place schedule next year has to mean the same record would be very disappointing.  

Edited February 18, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[Est.1974]

Getting Bieniemy to sign up here is a very significant move in my opinion. I know EB is looking for the best avenue to advance his career, to get him here, in our current situation. Big move. Easy out was another one year deal at KC.

 

I hope that move is an indication of further positive moves in the coming weeks. There must have been some strong assurances given to him. Right?

[HigSkin]

 

[PlayAction]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I’m going to say it. Some of you are entirely too dramatic.

Being cautiously optimistic is understandable. But outright dismissing the hire is really weird. 

 

That's because you haven't hit bottom yet.  If you had, the attitude makes perfect sense.  How many times did Charlie Brown think he was going to get to kick the football?  Lucy always snatched it away at the last moment.  

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

That's because you haven't hit bottom yet.  If you had, the attitude makes perfect sense.  How many times did Charlie Brown think he was going to get to kick the football?  Lucy always snatched it away at the last moment.  

I’ve been at the bottom for years.

[tomwvr]

1 hour ago, samy316 said:

The QB is the most important piece of this hiring.  We have no idea how Sam Howell will do next season, since he’s had only one start in his NFL career to date.  He’s essentially a rookie next season.  He’s going to have ups and downs (if he’s indeed the starter next year).  7-10 or 8-9 with a rookie QB feels a lot better than the same record with a backup QB, or a washed up QB (Wentz).  I don’t have much expectations for next season.  We’re solidly a 3rd or 4th place team in the NFCE.  It’ going to be very difficult to surpass the Eagles & Cowboys.  If Howell shows improvement, but we miss the playoffs, it won’t be a big deal to me.  All I want to see is improved play on offense.

Fix the oline and redzone playcalling and next year we can make the playoffs.

[veteranskinsfan]

I am not sure how successful or unsuccessful EB will be as our play-caller.  I do recall when Scott Turner was hired that I was against hiring him from Day 1. 

I am sure Snyder liked the fact that EB's contract with the Chiefs was over.  How many coaches will the owner be willing to add that EB wants to bring to Washington?

I did read that EB was the coach who caught on tape the fact that the Eagles defense could not cover the play they ran twice for touchdowns when the running backs walked

into the end zone untouched by Eagle defenders.  (USA Today article)

 

 

[Rex Tomb]

29 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Seems like they use a fullback quite a bit in KC run game.  Do we bring in a FB this offseason?  Do we have one on the roster currently?

[TheBlueIndian]

We are collectively, by definition, bottom feeders. 

 

I am encouraged though, RR hasn't completely soiled himself and embarrassed the team further over his tenure and by all accounts is a class act. He has kept his team together through some utter BS. While he has missed on some FA's and publicly appeared clueless at times, he does show the ability to adapt, learn, and change course pretty well. All of these things would be normal anywhere else but here. With this team we are literally predisposed, spring loaded, if you will, to totally f'ing up everything.