New OC Thread (Welcome Aboard Eric Bieniemy!)

[MrJL]

3 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

I don't know how they let Ismael get away.  IIRC, he was a 6th round pick back in 2020 and was really good for this team when the injury bug hit this team.

 

he was hurt and he was fourth string Center.  We had Roullier, Schweitzer ahead of him and Larsen coming off PUP in a few weeks.  Meanwhile our other OL were one backup tackle and two guys who were guards and tackles

[NoVaSkins21]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

No but that's because Heinicke can move around some. There was consistent pass pressure all game long. 

Turner is usually pretty good with extra time to prepare for an opponent.  Here's hoping he comes up with something better n 2 weeks than what he he had today for the Giants 

Edited December 5, 2022 by NoVaSkins21

[method man]

3 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

he was hurt and he was fourth string Center.  We had Roullier, Schweitzer ahead of him and Larsen coming off PUP in a few weeks.  Meanwhile our other OL were one backup tackle and two guys who were guards and tackles

 

You also don't see often teams keep a pure center as a backup. Most backup centers can also play guard competently. Smaller guys like Martin and Ismael are pure centers

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

Turner is usually pretty good with extra time to prepare for an opponent.  Here's hoping he comes up with something better n 2 weeks than he had today for the Giants 

It really is the biggest game of the Rivera/Turner/Del Rio era.  There really is no excuse not to come out and handle them in two weeks.

 

One exciting thing we had going on when Wentz was here was his goal to go connection with Dotson.  I don’t think they believe in Heinicke’s arm strength for those plays.  I would like to see them get sexy down there like on that first possession.  Put some wrinkles in like KC does.  Put Thomas in the wildcat.

[NoVaSkins21]

2 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

It really is the biggest game of the Rivera/Turner/Del Rio era.  There really is no excuse not to come out and handle them in two weeks.

 

One exciting thing we had going on when Wentz was here was his goal to go connection with Dotson.  I don’t think they believe in Heinicke’s arm strength for those plays.  I would like to see them get sexy down there like on that first possession.  Put some wrinkles in like KC does.  Put Thomas in the wildcat.

Agreed the game in 2 weeks is basically a playoff game.  Let's hope Turner scripts a better game plan.  Heinicke is what he is he is.  Too high on some throws or not enough arm strength on others.  

[MrJL]

13 minutes ago, method man said:

 

You also don't see often teams keep a pure center as a backup. Most backup centers can also play guard competently. Smaller guys like Martin and Ismael are pure centers

 

no, he's played some guard for us and in college.  I think the issue is we wanted more tackle depth.

Edited December 5, 2022 by MrJL

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

No but that's because Heinicke can move around some. There was consistent pass pressure all game long. 

I’m right there with you - Giants got a ton of pressure and Heinicke slithered out of a number of sacks.  He also often got the ball out quickly.  I don’t usually like to go down this line of thinking, but I’m pretty confident Wentz would have taken a bunch of sacks.  That’s not me saying he would have (necessarily) played worse, just that the pass pro was pretty crap on a pretty consistent basis.

[skins island connection]

 Some formations I can tell exactly whats gonna happen, so I can imagine what the Giants saw on game film.

Its running multiple plays out of a single formation that will get them more success. 

 

These people need to really give up the "Wet for Wentz" vibe, the guy is trash. He would be a decent QB with a great o-line, RB and WR threats; putting the offense on his shoulders just bogs him down even more.

[Conn]

Thomas in the wildcat lol. The guy is stiffly running around out there in cement shoes. It would be markedly different than the Chiefs doing that with Kelce. 
 

Armani Rogers was the potential guy for that before he got hurt, not Thomas

[Playaction2Sanders]

I liked that we got Han and Samuels more involved in the passing game. Running game was solid all day. Credit for that clutch 90 yard drive in the 4th I don't think many of us thought we could pull it off. You never know in the end game Scott might have been saving some tricks for the rematch. Losing Larsen was huge because you have to build the chemistry on the fly with the Oline and you saw, there were struggles...

 

I think come next draft we need a joystick WR who can handle kicks and a Center in the later rounds who can play guard and fill in if and when someone gets hurt.. I thought Turner had a good game today overall..

[Conn]

Haven’t seen anyone call Jahan “Han”, that’s pretty cool, anyone know if he goes by that? I tend to keep it purely to last names and initials here, but with Dotson’s jersey being #1…the guy is literally Han Solo. Now that’s cool. 

[CjSuAvE22]

Turner has had the worst qbs to gameplan with, in 3 years now that I look at it. Haskins Heinicke and a 1.75 legged Alex Smith sheesh.

[@DCGoldPants]

10 hours ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

Turner is usually pretty good with extra time to prepare for an opponent.  Here's hoping he comes up with something better n 2 weeks than what he he had today for the Giants 

 

He better be. Because we know NYG will have a different gameplan this time. If he rolls in there with the same thing. It'll be noticeable. 

8 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 Some formations I can tell exactly whats gonna happen, so I can imagine what the Giants saw on game film.

Its running multiple plays out of a single formation that will get them more success. 

 

 

More than "some". If they are going to keep going to the well. Then get to the line faster and use 10 seconds for random motions to pull the LBs away from the box.

[ultravin]

Turner needs to at least bring some RPO, Zone Read, and Bootleg concepts to his play calling.  with Taylor just staying in the pocket, he needs to be able to at least run and throw, just like that play with him running and then throwing to Curtis.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 hours ago, Ball Security said:

10 hours ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

 

It really is the biggest game of the Rivera/Turner/Del Rio era.  There really is no excuse not to come out and handle them in two weeks.

I agree that it’s a huge game, it’s probably the most must-win, non must-win games he’ll ever coach.

 

But what about yesterdays game leads you to believe there is no excuse not to handle them in two weeks?

 

The Giants got healthy, we lost pivotal pieces of what was already a dicey OL.  Unless miracles take place the next 2 weeks, we are coming into this one worse than yesterday.

 

1 minute ago, ultravin said:

Turner needs to at least bring some RPO, Zone Read, and Bootleg concepts to his play calling.  with Taylor just staying in the pocket, he needs to be able to at least run and throw, just like that play with him running and then throwing to Curtis.  

Heinicke isn’t a turtle - he’s not fast enough to successfully run RPO and ZR and has no history of success running it all the way back to his college days.

 

The bootleg stuff we’ve seen a little bit of and it ain’t great.

 

I get with a beat up OL it’s natural to look for ways to mitigate, but there’s nothing to suggest we’d be successful deploying this stuff.

[method man]

11 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

no, he's played some guard for us and in college.  I think the issue is we wanted more tackle depth.

He may have. The issue is that, at his size, he is a pure center in the NFL.

59 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I agree that it’s a huge game, it’s probably the most must-win, non must-win games he’ll ever coach.

 

But what about yesterdays game leads you to believe there is no excuse not to handle them in two weeks?

 

The Giants got healthy, we lost pivotal pieces of what was already a dicey OL.  Unless miracles take place the next 2 weeks, we are coming into this one worse than yesterday.

 

Heinicke isn’t a turtle - he’s not fast enough to successfully run RPO and ZR and has no history of success running it all the way back to his college days.

 

The bootleg stuff we’ve seen a little bit of and it ain’t great.

 

I get with a beat up OL it’s natural to look for ways to mitigate, but there’s nothing to suggest we’d be successful deploying this stuff.

This. Larsen is a much bigger loss than Cosmi. This O also didn’t have much film in recent weeks of their D with Ojulari, who is one of their gamechangers.

 

Our hope is that they get into a slugfest with Philly next week and lose some key players

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I agree that it’s a huge game, it’s probably the most must-win, non must-win games he’ll ever coach.

 

But what about yesterdays game leads you to believe there is no excuse not to handle them in two weeks?

 

The Giants got healthy, we lost pivotal pieces of what was already a dicey OL.  Unless miracles take place the next 2 weeks, we are coming into this one worse than yesterday.

 

Heinicke isn’t a turtle - he’s not fast enough to successfully run RPO and ZR and has no history of success running it all the way back to his college days.

 

The bootleg stuff we’ve seen a little bit of and it ain’t great.

 

I get with a beat up OL it’s natural to look for ways to mitigate, but there’s nothing to suggest we’d be successful deploying this stuff.

They have two weeks to prepare.  We’re likely down Larson, but we could have Turner back and run a Leno, Norwell, Schweitzer, Turner, Leno line.  On defense we’ll (likely) have a full stock of DEs and St Juice instead of Holmes.

Robinson and Gibson will have fresher legs than Barkley.

[SkinsFTW]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I get with a beat up OL it’s natural to look for ways to mitigate, but there’s nothing to suggest we’d be successful deploying this stuff.

 

 

Only because they're too dumb to figure out how to bring Howell in for half a dozen plays a game like what NO did with that scrub a few years ago.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

 

Only because they're too dumb to figure out how to bring Howell in for half a dozen plays a game like what NO did with that scrub a few years ago.

Hill is a gadget player, Howell is a QB only.  A QB that when Ron last gave an update said he was working hard on footwork, taking the appropriate drops, etc.  

 

As much as I’d like to see Howell, I gather he’s truly not ready enough.  The way Ron talks about Taylor’s play in years past as well as recently, it’s pretty obvious he’d like to play someone else.  🤣

[Warhead36]

Howell is a super raw project. People need to stop harping on him getting into the game. Its not happening barring injury. He's nowhere near ready.

[SkinsFTW]

If he can't run 5 or so rpo or gadget plays a game then they definitely have the wrong dude. 

[kfrankie]

Here's my concern with Scott Turner.  On 2nd and 18 with 1:28 to go in overtime, Robinson runs the balls from the 7 yard line out to the 15 yard line. Giants call a timeout with 1:23 to go.  On 3rd and 10 at the 15 yard line with 1:23 left, the Commanders run the ball to Gibson from the shotgun.  The Commanders had plenty of time to continue the drive had they made a first down. And considering the field position, another sack would not have resulted in a safety,   If they run the ball in this situation, they are unlikely to get a 1st down, and the result will be punting from deep in your own territory (maybe to the Giants 35 yard line at best) giving the Giants roughly 30 seconds to get into field goal range.

 

One of two things happened here, (1) Scott Turner made a terrible play call by running the football in a clear passing situation, or (2) Scott Turner was afraid, under the circumstances, that Heinicke was unlikely to complete a pass beyond 10 yards (or would throw an INT), so it was better to punt to the Giants and pray for a tie.  

 

So it appears that Turner had no confidence in his quarterback's ability to get a first down, and instead chose to give the Giants decent field position and a legitimate chance to win the game.  Best case scenario when making that call, (other than an unlikely rushing first down), the Commanders get a tie.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, kfrankie said:

So it appears that Turner had no confidence in his quarterback's ability to get a first down, and instead chose to give the Giants decent field position and a legitimate chance to win the game.  Best case scenario when making that call, (other than an unlikely rushing first down), the Commanders get a tie.

I gather the overall strategy came from Rivera.  I also believe this was a package decision, accounting for both Heinicke spraying the ball around and the decimated OL, not trusting them to hold while routes developed.

[MrJL]

5 hours ago, kfrankie said:

Here's my concern with Scott Turner.  On 2nd and 18 with 1:28 to go in overtime, Robinson runs the balls from the 7 yard line out to the 15 yard line. Giants call a timeout with 1:23 to go.  On 3rd and 10 at the 15 yard line with 1:23 left, the Commanders run the ball to Gibson from the shotgun.  The Commanders had plenty of time to continue the drive had they made a first down. And considering the field position, another sack would not have resulted in a safety,   If they run the ball in this situation, they are unlikely to get a 1st down, and the result will be punting from deep in your own territory (maybe to the Giants 35 yard line at best) giving the Giants roughly 30 seconds to get into field goal range.

 

One of two things happened here, (1) Scott Turner made a terrible play call by running the football in a clear passing situation, or (2) Scott Turner was afraid, under the circumstances, that Heinicke was unlikely to complete a pass beyond 10 yards (or would throw an INT), so it was better to punt to the Giants and pray for a tie.  

 

So it appears that Turner had no confidence in his quarterback's ability to get a first down, and instead chose to give the Giants decent field position and a legitimate chance to win the game.  Best case scenario when making that call, (other than an unlikely rushing first down), the Commanders get a tie.

 

okay, the Giants aren't going to get a safety on the third down pass if they get a sack.  But it will result in Tress Way punting from a worse position.  Maybe they're that much closer to field goal range

[Warhead36]

6 hours ago, kfrankie said:

Here's my concern with Scott Turner.  On 2nd and 18 with 1:28 to go in overtime, Robinson runs the balls from the 7 yard line out to the 15 yard line. Giants call a timeout with 1:23 to go.  On 3rd and 10 at the 15 yard line with 1:23 left, the Commanders run the ball to Gibson from the shotgun.  The Commanders had plenty of time to continue the drive had they made a first down. And considering the field position, another sack would not have resulted in a safety,   If they run the ball in this situation, they are unlikely to get a 1st down, and the result will be punting from deep in your own territory (maybe to the Giants 35 yard line at best) giving the Giants roughly 30 seconds to get into field goal range.

 

One of two things happened here, (1) Scott Turner made a terrible play call by running the football in a clear passing situation, or (2) Scott Turner was afraid, under the circumstances, that Heinicke was unlikely to complete a pass beyond 10 yards (or would throw an INT), so it was better to punt to the Giants and pray for a tie.  

 

So it appears that Turner had no confidence in his quarterback's ability to get a first down, and instead chose to give the Giants decent field position and a legitimate chance to win the game.  Best case scenario when making that call, (other than an unlikely rushing first down), the Commanders get a tie.

We tried to pass the ball on 1st down and we literally didn't block Thibodeaux at all. At that point there was no confidence the OL could hold up and we were just playing for a tie.

 

It was the smart move. If we were at like the 30 yard line or so than sure take a shot or two. But inside your own 10, no you play it safe and play for the tie.