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The (New) Offensive Line Thread

method man

By method man
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Always A Commander Never A Captain

Always A Commander Never A Captain

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 5/4/2023 at 9:41 AM, Morneblade said:

I don't see any real upgrades, at all. Lateral moves. We went after mid-low tier players.

 

You must reeeaaallly have liked Trai Turner last year. Honestly not sure how anyone can have watched him play and think lateral moves for replacing Trai Turner. But ok.

 

On 5/4/2023 at 9:41 AM, Morneblade said:

Look at our DL, and then look at our OL. It's night and day. We have been skimping on OL for years, and we've paid the price.

 

Nobody can deny that. Team building philosophy about what makes a competent DL vs competent OL, and then what turns them elite. I don't have the answer, but there's probably a blog somewhere that's got a decent idea.

 

I will say the previous plan under Dan Snyder from like 2000-2016 obviously was not working. Which is draft nothing on IDL and just pay them in Free Agency. However, unlike DL I do think the OL is more of a "sum of parts" theory. Which is the OL is as good as the weakest link on most plays. So getting broad competency is more important than elite talent. We did see this play out in the 2010's with Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, etc but weak links elsewhere that just torpedoed overall play. Guys like Shaun Lauvao, Josh LeRibeus, Donald Penn, and Chris Chester would cause a random play to be blown up. Contrary to the lateral moves argument you espouse above, I would strongly include Trai Turner in the above list of guys who were exploitable weak links.

 

Edited by Always A Commander Never A Captain
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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

You must reeeaaallly have liked Trai Turner last year. Honestly not sure how anyone can have watched him play and think lateral moves for replacing Trai Turner. But ok.

 

Well, did we go after a really good player to replace him, or a high draft pick? No. We kicked a OT that was hurt and was marginal to LG. This is not aggressively addressing the issue, like we did for the secondary. It's "let's see if a guy that isn't really working out at one position can work here". We won't know until he actually plays a position he's actually never played before, but to me, this is a lateral move. Because we sure didn't really try to fix it. We're hoping for the best, using parts that were not working elsewhere.

 

17 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Nobody can deny that. Team building philosophy about what makes a competent DL vs competent OL, and then what turns them elite. I don't have the answer, but there's probably a blog somewhere that's got a decent idea.

 

I will say the previous plan under Dan Snyder from like 2000-2016 obviously was not working. Which is draft nothing on IDL and just pay them in Free Agency. However, unlike DL I do think the OL is more of a "sum of parts" theory. Which is the OL is as good as the weakest link on most plays. So getting broad competency is more important than elite talent. We did see this play out in the 2010's with Trent Williams, Brandon Scherff, etc but weak links elsewhere that just torpedoed overall play. Guys like Shaun Lauvao, Josh LeRibeus, Donald Penn, and Chris Chester would cause a random play to be blown up. Contrary to the lateral moves argument you espouse above, I would strongly include Trai Turner in the above list of guys who were exploitable weak links.

 

 

There were issues everywhere. Leno gave up 9 sacks, and he seems to be the only guy people don't want to replace. Collectively, our OL is bad, ranked 24th in the league, and it would be likely worse, if Taylor wasn't the QB for most of the season. His pocket presence is elite and he got out of a lot of plays that would have been sacks otherwise.

 

Our OL at this point is a mass of cast offs and a lone 2nd round pick that didn't work out at RT. To go back to your comment a competent OL? How about actually try to build one first. It starts there. We haven't.

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I keep forgetting that Norwell is on our roster, which I think is a self defense mechanism, because Norwell is still on our roster. Yikes.

 

Based on all the reports from reliable sources like Keim you have as much chance of making the 53 man roster as Norwell. Or even being on the training camp roster come to that.

 

I wonder if he cant pass a physical and thats why he's not been released so far - might see some kind of injury settlement.

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DWinzit

DWinzit

Posted
Posted
On 5/10/2023 at 3:12 PM, MartinC said:

 

Based on all the reports from reliable sources like Keim you have as much chance of making the 53 man roster as Norwell. Or even being on the training camp roster come to that.

 

I wonder if he cant pass a physical and thats why he's not been released so far - might see some kind of injury settlement.

Are they just waiting until post June 1st to cut him by chance?

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Is it a definite that the team will release Norwell?

It’s not definite until it’s done I guess, but very reliable sources like John Keim (among others) have been saying it’s very very likely he gets released.

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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MartinC said:

It’s not definite until it’s done I guess, but very reliable sources like John Keim (among others) have been saying it’s very very likely he gets released.

Not necessarily directed to you Martin, but… Am I right that teams can designate two players post-June cuts (ahead of June) and they’ve only used 1 so far (on Roullier)?  

 

If I’m right on that (and I could easily be wrong), then I’m curious why Norwell hasn’t been released yet… especially since the staff seems to prefer to cut guys earlier to give them more opportunity to find a new home, such as with Moses.  Or that’s my impression anyway.

 

Again, if I’m right, kind of makes me think either they want to see how the other guys perform before committing to cutting Norwell or they’re waiting to see with someone like Logan Thomas (or, although I highly doubt it, guys like Fuller, Leno or Samuel).

 

Personally, I’m pretty ambivalent toward Norwell.  On one hand, he was not good last year, I’m looking forward to seeing what Paul brings, we need to get younger on the line, and we’d get some savings cutting him.  On the other hand, we’re light at the position, the savings aren’t all that much, perhaps he’s better in EB’s system, and there’s something to be said for continuity.  🤷‍♂️

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Not necessarily directed to you Martin, but… Am I right that teams can designate two players post-June cuts (ahead of June) and they’ve only used 1 so far (on Roullier)?  

 

If I’m right on that (and I could easily be wrong), then I’m curious why Norwell hasn’t been released yet… especially since the staff seems to prefer to cut guys earlier to give them more opportunity to find a new home, such as with Moses.  Or that’s my impression anyway.

 

Again, if I’m right, kind of makes me think either they want to see how the other guys perform before committing to cutting Norwell or they’re waiting to see with someone like Logan Thomas (or, although I highly doubt it, guys like Fuller, Leno or Samuel).

 

Personally, I’m pretty ambivalent toward Norwell.  On one hand, he was not good last year, I’m looking forward to seeing what Paul brings, we need to get younger on the line, and we’d get some savings cutting him.  On the other hand, we’re light at the position, the savings aren’t all that much, perhaps he’s better in EB’s system, and there’s something to be said for continuity.  🤷‍♂️

Correct on the two players you can cut pre June 1 but designate as post June 1 cuts. I’m also wondering what the plan here is.

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
Posted

Leno is fine and this should be his last year starting for us.

 

Charles was a big let down yesterday.

 

Gates was bad, but you could see why he's the tough guy on the line. He drilled White in the ribs on the drive after the first Howell cheap shot, which was great, but then got caught patting himself on the back the next few plays.

 

Cosmi is our best player if he can stay on the field.

 

Wylie is just garbage.

 

Stromberg is going to be a starter sooner than later, but there isn't much else on this line worth salvaging. 

 

I still think the best line up is Leno, Gates/Wylie, Larson, Cosmi, Lucas.

 

This is easily our code red unit. That was the worst Dline we play this year. What the hell is gong to happen when we play the Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers. 

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I think losing Cosmi caused a big time ripple effect. IIRC the OL wasn't bad in the 1st half but after Cosmi went down there was a collapse in the 3rd quarter.

He was evaluated for a concussion but then came back in. He only missed one series I think? Did he get injured again after that?

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DWinzit

DWinzit

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

He was evaluated for a concussion but then came back in. He only missed one series I think? Did he get injured again after that?

I found myself asking the same. I just saw a post game interview with him and he was joking around through most of it about the poor Bama players on the team losing to Texas. No discussion about injury at all. 

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

I found myself asking the same. I just saw a post game interview with him and he was joking around through most of it about the poor Bama players on the team losing to Texas. No discussion about injury at all. 

I checked the snap count. He only missed 3 snaps.

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srtman04

srtman04

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

This is easily our code red unit. That was the worst Dline we play this year. What the hell is gong to happen when we play the Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers. 

 

Howell is going to get killed.   I shudder to think about this......our Oline are 2nd string backups at best.  

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DWinzit

DWinzit

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Ah okay thought he was out for longer. The OL kinda sorda just sucks. We gotta move Wylie away from T. Charles is a bum too.

 

I think our best OL configuration might be Leno - Paul - Stromberg - Cosmi - Lucas. Wylie can be the backup T/G and Gates the backup G/C.

 

25 minutes ago, MrJL said:

Considering Stromberg came in when Cosmi was out I guess he's  the top guard backup which means when Charles in benched he shouldbe next up

Paul not even making the active roster leads me to believe they weren't very impressed with him. Also yes Stromberg must have come out of no where with his play at G! 

 

I still think Wylie at G is a solid move over Paul, Strom or Charles. 

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MrJL

MrJL

Posted
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

 

Paul not even making the active roster leads me to believe they weren't very impressed with him. Also yes Stromberg must have come out of no where with his play at G! 

 

I still think Wylie at G is a solid move over Paul, Strom or Charles. 

Nah, Paul being inactive is due to the past two years of Center trauma. The way they set things up yesterday they had five guys who could play tackle, five who could play guard including Gates and three who could play center. Activate Paul over Stromberg or Larsen and it’s six, five and two

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