Game Day Thread - Philly at Washington: From Wentz You Came

[Redwolves92]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You do know the forum keeps receipts right?

 

You literally showed up in here saying that Heineke should have been inserted into the game at halftime.

 

I didn’t take anything personally.  i just said that it makes no sense to insert Heineke who has shown he has no answers for what Philly was doing.  Not only is it week 3, but you potentially kill the confidence of two QBs and send mixed signals to your locker room.  There is zero value in benching Wentz unless he was injured.

I actually think Heinicke would have done much better. He has wheels and would have taken the easy throws. Wentz was wildly inaccurate even when he did have some time to throw. I do agree however that benching wentz would have been bad for the team overall. 

[DJHJR86]

3 minutes ago, Redwolves92 said:

I actually think Heinicke would have done much better.

 

I don't think he would have done much better and still think they would have lost.  But I do think Washington fans come to the realization that Wentz isn't the guy faster than it took Indy fans.  Because he is now on his third team in three years and is still doing the things that got him benched in Philadelphia back in 2020.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Redwolves92 said:

I actually think Heinicke would have done much better. He has wheels and would have taken the easy throws. Wentz was wildly inaccurate even when he did have some time to throw. I do agree however that benching wentz would have been bad for the team overall. 

The best comparison to yesterdays Eagles performance I can compare to is how Dallas attacked us season.

 

In those games, Heineke ran a total of 4 times for a net 7 yards.  You can’t run and escape when multiple OL are getting their lunch taken on the same snap.  That’s exactly what transpired on numerous occasions yesterday.  
 

 

 

[purbeast]

18 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I don't think he would have done much better and still think they would have lost.  But I do think Washington fans come to the realization that Wentz isn't the guy faster than it took Indy fans.  Because he is now on his third team in three years and is still doing the things that got him benched in Philadelphia back in 2020.

Yes, the fans know more than the football people who have been doing this for their entire life.

 

Let's just disregard that and do what idiot fans think.

 

Sounds like a great plan.

 

Maybe we will call up Colt Brennan after Heinicke fails.

[Cooleyfan1993]

11 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Yes, the fans know more than the football people who have been doing this for their entire life.

 

Let's just disregard that and do what idiot fans think.

 

Sounds like a great plan.

 

Maybe we will call up Colt Brennan after Heinicke fails.

If they can call up a dead guy, that would be pretty sick honestly 👻 ghost of colt brennan, please suit up 

[purbeast]

16 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

If they can call up a dead guy, that would be pretty sick honestly 👻 ghost of colt brennan, please suit up 

Holy **** I had no clue he died.  Damn, so young.

[DJHJR86]

45 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Yes, the fans know more than the football people who have been doing this for their entire life.

 

The football people have continuously built a meh roster for the last 3 seasons.  You can continue to support and never question them if you want.  

[purbeast]

4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

The football people have continuously built a meh roster for the last 3 seasons.  You can continue to support and never question them if you want.  

So because I don't Heinicke go to in week 3, that means I support and never question them.

 

Got it.

Edited September 26, 2022 by purbeast

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, purbeast said:

So because I don't Heinicke go to in week 3, that means I support and never question them.

 

Got it.

 

What are you talking about?  I said Wentz isn't the guy and the fans are going to realize that quicker than the fans in Indy.  It has nothing to do with going to Heinicke.  He can be inactive, cut, traded, for all I care.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

What are you talking about?  I said Wentz isn't the guy and the fans are going to realize that quicker than the fans in Indy.  It has nothing to do with going to Heinicke.  He can be inactive, cut, traded, for all I care.  

It’s week 3.  I’ve seen nobody anoint Wentz to anything whatsoever.

 

You’ve been on a rampage all morning about Wentz, and Wentz only.  Your obsession with this is weird.  Literally nobody is or has been making any positive qualifying statements about the guy.  The only definitive statements being made are about how much he sucks by guys like you, as if this is a race you desperately want to win.😭

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s week 3.  I’ve seen nobody anoint Wentz to anything whatsoever.

 

You’ve been on a rampage all morning about Wentz, and Wentz only.  Your obsession with this is weird.  Literally nobody is or has been making any positive qualifying statements about the guy.  The only definitive statements being made are about how much he sucks by guys like you, as if this is a race you desperately want to win.😭

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/09/04/carson-wentz-commanders-jaguars/

 

He was anointed by the coaching staff.

 

"rampage" lmao get a grip.  He played like garbage.  He'll have good games.  He's going to also have more garbage games.  

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/09/04/carson-wentz-commanders-jaguars/

 

He was anointed by the coaching staff.

 

"rampage" lmao get a grip.  He played like garbage.  He'll have good games.  He's going to also have more garbage games.  

 

You’ve been going on and on about this and only this all morning long.  
 

So you mean the head coach publicly instilled confidence in his starting QB that he just traded for?  
 

Stop the presses…

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You’ve been going on and on about this and only this all morning long.  

 

I'm sorry that I "rampaged" by posting about the quarterback of my favorite team after a terrible loss largely thanks to said quarterbacks play.  

[skinny21]

I think multiple things could be true at the same time, on both sides of the argument.  Purely from a fan perspective, benching Wentz can be for his own good (ie not an indictment of him as a qb overall) and to see if Heinicke provides a spark (including Turner changing his play calling).  Wentz can be a significantly better qb than Heinicke, yet Heinicke could play better in certain (limited) circumstances.  It’s possible Heinicke could have done a better job evading the rush and getting the ball out quicker, and it’s possible he’d have thrown multiple picks via up-for-grab throws while under duress (maybe an extra fumble or 2 as well).  One can feel the staff should have tried inserting TH while also not having a high opinion of TH.

 

So, I strongly disagree with the dude that thinks Heinicke is a better qb, but I also disagree with those that seem to be saying there’s no possible way Heinicke could have done better.  That’s not to say I believe he’d have done better, just that it’s speculation either way.

 

With that said, benching Wentz would have been a very risky call for the coaches IMO.  Maybe they could have successfully walked that narrow line of saying they wanted to protect Wentz, maybe they don’t erode Wentz’s confidence or his teammates confidence in him, but it’s far more likely the outcome would have been a net negative.  So while the fan in me thought maybe he should be benched, I think the staff probably/very likely made the right call.  He had a crappy game, but he’s also been one of the bright spots.  Gotta roll with him at least until he’s obviously one of the top problems with the club (if it gets to that point, which I doubt).

 

 

I will say that Wentz has got to get the ball out quicker.  I put more on Turner and the oline for sure, but Wentz took some sacks/hits hitching after his drop.  Don’t know how much of that is on him - I have concerns with his ability to read his keys consistently - vs his receivers, oline, Turner and good defenses, and I don’t know how much room he has to grow in the offense… but he’s gotta do better.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

28 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

 

I will say that Wentz has got to get the ball out quicker.  I put more on Turner and the oline for sure, but Wentz took some sacks/hits hitching after his drop.  Don’t know how much of that is on him - I have concerns with his ability to read his keys consistently - vs his receivers, oline, Turner and good defenses, and I don’t know how much room he has to grow in the offense… but he’s gotta do better.

The only thing I’ll add to this is that it didn’t start this way.  The first 3 possessions, the Eagles were getting instantaneous pressure via multiple outlets, where there was no pocket to step into and nowhere to escape.  
 

I thought after the very first series, Scott would switch it up to some quick game to back them up a bit.  For whatever reason, it’s like he had all these beautifully designed chunk plays that take a while to develop dialed up not accounting for the fact that most every one of his OL were getting beaten like a drum.  Those plays can be as pretty as they want on the whiteboard, but if the defense has their ears pinned back and winning one on ones regularly, they are rendered useless.

 

After watching the pocket collapse from different area codes the entire first quarter, it absolutely got to Carson and he was seeing ghosts, timing was off and just an outright mess.

 

What this tells me is that it’s imperative that Scott dial up some short stuff to move the chains to start games.  It’s now abundantly clear that this OL needs movement and trickery in order to not get blown off the ball.  If they keep trying to dial up home runs from the jump, we’ll continue to see more of what both the Lions and Eagles have done to us.  If he can’t dial up some chain movers to back the D up and give Carson some confidence early on, bad times will be had.

[Chris 44]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The only thing I’ll add to this is that it didn’t start this way.  The first 3 possessions, the Eagles were getting instantaneous pressure via multiple outlets, where there was no pocket to step into and nowhere to escape.  
 

I thought after the very first series, Scott would switch it up to some quick game to back them up a bit.  For whatever reason, it’s like he had all these beautifully designed chunk plays that take a while to develop dialed up not accounting for the fact that most every one of his OL were getting beaten like a drum.  Those plays can be as pretty as they want on the whiteboard, but if the defense has their ears pinned back and winning one on ones regularly, they are rendered useless.

 

After watching the pocket collapse from different area codes the entire first quarter, it absolutely got to Carson and he was seeing ghosts, timing was off and just an outright mess.

 

What this tells me is that it’s imperative that Scott dial up some short stuff to move the chains to start games.  It’s now abundantly clear that this OL needs movement and trickery in order to not get blown off the ball.  If they keep trying to dial up home runs from the jump, we’ll continue to see more of what both the Lions and Eagles have done to us.  If he can’t dial up some chain movers to back the D up and give Carson some confidence early on, bad times will be had.

The seeing ghosts thing is concerning but something that I think will change game to game depending on the O line to a certain extent. What has me more concerned are all the bad overthrows that Wentz is throwing each game which ae killing drives. Frustrating to have guys wide open for firsts and the ball sails high. Seems to becoming a trend. I saw what appeared to be a death stare at one point on the sidelines from Samuels toward Wentz as he walked by. Receivers are going to start asking questions if this keeps up.

[skinny21]

@BatteredFanSyndrome Looked to me like it started first play of the 2nd drive.  Nothing egregious, but he hitched twice on his first drop back of the drive and got sacked.  2nd play, he started to throw, pulled it down and got sacked.  To be fair to him though, it was early enough that he wouldn’t have had a feel yet for how much pressure he’d be under.  And of course, the oline could/should have blocked better - it’s not like he held the ball for ages.  So for me it’s less about that early pressure, it’s that those pressures should have been the wake up call that he needed to get the ball out quickly (and/or on time).  Again though, I can’t reliably speak to Turner’s role, how the Philly D played it, if/when the receivers were getting open, etc.

 

Stepping back though, it’s not really about this game in particular, more that this game was an extension of some of the issues Warner pointed out in his film review - Wentz needs to find the overload, read the key defender, and get the ball out.  This isn’t me slamming the dude, I’m just saying he can/needs to improve in this area.  He also needs help from the line, play calling and receivers, and I’m fine with the argument that the former two were the bigger issues yesterday… maybe even far bigger issues.  

Semi-tangential, but I’m hopeful Turner gets some playing time, because (if the reports on Turner are correct) Wentz could use a bigger target he can trust to come down with the ball even when they aren’t “open”.  An outlet he can put the ball on without much hesitation.

[NewCliche21]

5 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Keeping him in the game increases the likelihood that he would be injured.  At least that could have been Rivera's excuse.  

 

Yeah when the game was out of reach, bench him. He was gonna get killed out there.

[Thinking Skins]

8 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Ohh i forgot all about that comment felm

him. That was from 2020 right?

I think 2021

[Riggo#44]

8 hours ago, purbeast said:

Maybe we will call up Colt Brennan after Heinicke fails.

 

[RandyHolt]

I am the anti coach as I think head coaches shouldn't hesitate to use both QBs.  The awkwardness of using a backup in a blowout is only because coaches set the precedent that you never risk playing the backup - better to leave the starter to the wolves and not let the fans see the backup can play. The risk of taking out a starting QB is because it will destroy the QBs confidence yet somehow all the other players that come out when they suck or need a breather have no such issues.

 

Wentz was literally running for his life on his scrambles and taking hits in a blowout. With our OL decimated its certainly a reasonable coaching decision to consider using a guy with better wheels.  If a QB is that fragile how do they overcome their INTs fumbles terrible throws and reads? 

[Conn]

It’s. Week. Three. Thinking it’s reasonable in any situation to bench the QB you traded for and committed to that early is fairy tale land. As if that could ever be done without irreparably damaging the entire situation and being an even bigger laughing stock. Couch it in as much logical-sounding bull**** as you want, it’s not. Again, it was week. Three. Get real.

[Panninho]

That is some horibble stuff from Norwell but what the hell is Wentz doing? It's 2nd & 16, Slay gives Terry 10 yards of cushion, Terry is open immediatley, Wentz looks at him being open, pump fakes and gets sacked. That's an easy 6-7 yards with the chance that Terry makes something happen after the catch. Worst case is, you get a somewhat more manageable 3rd and 10. Instead he gets sacked and it's 3rd and 26 and our own 4 yard line. Luckily McKissic gained 6 yards to give Way some room for the punt.

Everyone was complaining that we did not call quick hitters to evade the pass rush. But when they were there, Wentz apparently didn't pull the trigger either.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Panninho

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’d guess he had much more confidence in his OL than he should have.  

Good lord that was pathetic.

[RandyHolt]

It's week 3 but we are in week 1040+ of our QB search.  Curious how many have confidence in Wentz as our long term solution. If it's "lets wait and see" that's a no for right now. Regardless our OL was toast - yesterday was not about Wentz.

 

I was not and am not calling for Heiny nor a QB change but here's more from my QB201 theory class. A QB CAN be benched for a drive and then play the next drive and do well. Or benched for the 4th quarter in a blowout to save him from getting injured / save him for the rest of the season. As long as its for a reason that makes sense to them.  I think its a myth that it self destructs the QB and team permanently for a QB to miss a series. I know some may think they are god but its those types that need to face reality and learn they are not. The worlds best pitchers get yanked.

 

Anyone that thinks NFL coaches always know best must wonder why coaching has changed. Out of no where coaches now go for it on 4th down all over the field all game long. Use defensive timeouts aggressively to get the ball back and eek out an extra drive to close the half. Go for 2 because a mathematician said they should ignore what they did their entire careers which is to not be scared of a tie game. Why punters suddenly don't punt out of the back of the endzone religiously.  Why coaches now let QBs run the ball vs try to change them ALL into pocket passers. Why coaches don't run on first down every time. Defer vs receive. 

 

Poor Lenny