😀😀 Ron fired days ago. Mission Accomplished.😀😄

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

You don't understand your comment either?

 

Okay, I guess we can agree on that then. 

I mean I was really just saying I hope they are looking at coaches that are in the playoffs and decided that maybe waiting to vacate the position is some kind of indication of that. I really didn’t think it was that difficult of a concept. A stretch, sure. That’s why I said I WANT to believe it. But not that confusing (I didn’t think) 
 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Because they have to finish coaching the season.  They still have a job to do, and it is difficult under good circumstances.  Now Ron and all of the other coaches get to spend the rest of the season trying to get everyone to do their jobs with zero remaining authority, dealing with distractions, and answering the questions about getting fired.  Do you really think the coaches caused all of that?

 

Nobody had an incentive to talk to Diana Russini and humiliate Rivera and his staff, but some stupid **** did.  And it was someone in a position to know what Harris is planning.

 

Steve, this happened weeks ago, dude...the Titanic finally snapped in half Thanksgiving, but everyone knew the ship was heading for the bottom of the ocean before that.

[Rufus T Firefly]

30 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I mean I was really just saying I hope they are looking at coaches that are in the playoffs and decided that maybe waiting to vacate the position is some kind of indication of that. I really didn’t think it was that difficult of a concept. A stretch, sure. That’s why I said I WANT to believe it. But not that confusing (I didn’t think) 
 

You can call it a "stretch" but the fact is, it makes zero sense on any level. 

 

They are going to wait to fire Ron until the week before the playoffs start because they want to interview coaches in the playoffs? I mean, that is well beyond a "stretch."

[Llevron]

26 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

You can call it a "stretch" but the fact is, it makes zero sense on any level. 

 

They are going to wait to fire Ron until the week before the playoffs start because they want to interview coaches in the playoffs? I mean, that is well beyond a "stretch."

Generally I just want to read as much as I can into the few decisions that they have made to get some kind of idea about what they will want to do going forward. To that point, everything I say is obviously conjecture. Nitpicking it is probably the biggest waste of time but do you boo-boo.
 

Stretch or not, I STILL want to believe that they are looking at coaches that will be in the playoffs and that waiting to fire this guy can be some indication of that. Mostly I’m glad that they arnt in a race to the bottom to hire Belichick. More than anything they taking their time, which lends itself (in my mind) to waiting for the guy they want instead of settling for the best guy available soon. 
 

I hope knowledge of this doesn’t ruin your enjoyment of the process lol

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Llevron

[BurgundyBooger]

On 12/16/2023 at 3:04 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

When he was hired I was excited because I thought it was the best Dan could do: hire a respected coach who wasn’t going to run a clown shoe organization, and hope for the best.  
 

For the most part that’s come true.  The issue has been they have done a very bad job at roster construction and haven’t found a QB.

 

Ron needed to find a much better GM and empower them.  

I wasn’t as optimistic. It didn’t matter who we brought in. As long as that person answered to a toxic, corrosive, and morally bankrupt owner, with his legion of cronies, then any good intention or design would have been immediately drowned out. You can’t hope to purify a polluted a lake by dumping a bucket of clean water into it. Ron didn’t have the clout or energy to reverse things here. That would have involved a wholesale purging of the toxic VPs, executives, members of the ownership group, their associates, Dan’s family friends, and all the bozos that’ve accumulated over the 25 years and have entrenched themselves into the organization. The team was toxic from the top all the way to the bottom where Ron was, and despite his supposed level of authority I don’t think it was reasonable to assume a HC could make a profound, positive, and sustainable impact in retrospect.

Edited December 17, 2023 by BurgundyBooger

[NYSkinsFanatic]

If things get any more embarrassing for us and Josh can no longer find it in his heart to hang onto Rivera until the end of year…. Maybe they can do a drawing for one lucky STH that renews by Tues to coach a game….LOL

[Rufus T Firefly]

3 hours ago, Llevron said:

Generally I just want to read as much as I can into the few decisions that they have made to get some kind of idea about what they will want to do going forward. To that point, everything I say is obviously conjecture. Nitpicking it is probably the biggest waste of time but do you boo-boo.
 

Stretch or not, I STILL want to believe that they are looking at coaches that will be in the playoffs and that waiting to fire this guy can be some indication of that. Mostly I’m glad that they arnt in a race to the bottom to hire Belichick. More than anything they taking their time, which lends itself (in my mind) to waiting for the guy they want instead of settling for the best guy available soon. 
 

I hope knowledge of this doesn’t ruin your enjoyment of the process lol

 

I have thoughts that are pure gibberish too.

 

I just don't post them online. 

[FuriousD]

Just had a chance to watch Ron’s post game press. The whole thing just came off as morose. He’s become this dead inside caricature of himself..

 

This can’t end soon enough 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Seeing Ron finally admit "it's time" regarding Cheesman will be how I remember him.  Just total incompetence.

[RandyHolt]

I wanted Ron fired the moment Harris got the team to avoid months days like today. I know I know save the replies - it's impossible to fire a coach before training camp starts a brief 7 weeks before the first game.

 

It's also near impossible to watch Ron ruining Sam. Heck its awkward as **** even watching our long snapper. Now Tress gets ****ing clobbered because of Ron's not ****ing caring about anything. Its been counter productive to have Ron here this entire season. It's also dangerous for players as we witnessed first hand.

Edited December 18, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Llevron]

15 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I have thoughts that are pure gibberish too.

 

I just don't post them online. 

 

Funny cause you wont stop now 😃 

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Me too. I thought at the start of this off season no matter what his legacy would be good here considering context.  I don't feel that way anymore.  His drafts haven't aged well.  His praise of Dan felt odd especially considering the timing of it all -- when Dan was out the door.

(I started this yesterday, and then got hung up, so this is a day late)

He started out ok.  Going 7-9 after 6 years of Jay + 10 years of Bruce was admirable, even if it was against the Ben Denuci's of the NFL.  He was also fighting cancer, the COVID situation, social injustice and Dan all at the same time.  So, for 2020, I give him an A+.

 

The issue is everything that came after that.  And it starts with 2 decisions:

1. Basically retaining the entire coaching staff that helped him get fired from Carolina, minus JDR.  He was slow to realize the team was poorly coached, and slow to react.

2. Not hiring a really solid GM candidate with a forward looking view and then delegating as much of the roster construction to that person. Coach-centric CAN work but only if there's a really solid GM who basically has full authority and operates autonomously but in conjuction with the HC. That didn't happen here.  Ron essentially delegated the coaching duties and screwed up the personnel dutities.  

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And the odd arrogance and excuse making.  I think when you get Barnwell say the other day the new coach here will inherit a bad roster AND have to restore the culture here.  That's one heck of a shot at Ron and IMO its a well deserved shot.

Yeah, if I never hear the word culture as it relates to this football team again, I'd be fine with that.  

 

The question that I would ask Ron, what exactly is the culture you were trying to promote/build.  Because I'm not entirely sure even he knows.  

 

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Overcoming cancer is admirable.  And he was-is a good person and I liked that when we had the backdrop of Dan in that building.

Exactly.  At the very least he was an adult in the room, and that was refreshing after Bruce/Jay.

 

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But otherwise culture wise when you have Sweat taking shots at the "culture" here after he left.  Jonathan Allen and Gibson more or less making fun of the "growth and development" comments and Allen basically saying he wants to leave because he wants to win.  That's bad as to his legacy. 

Yeah.  Though, honestly, Allen can go shove it.  He was a team leader.  And I don't think he was a very good one.  He seemingly clashed with everybody else on the DL in some way.  He and Payne threw punches on the sideline, and it's pretty clear he wasn't close to either Sweat or Young.  He got paid.  He talks a lot.  But be the change in the world you want to see.  He was as empowered to set culture as anybody and didn't seem to do it.  I like Allen, but I'm tired of his schtick.  

 

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Basically Ron's version of culture is a half baked version of Bruce's ironically.  Mediocrity to less than that on the field but highlighting winning off the field coupled with excuse making for everything.   Bruce touted the winning off the field even though that was BS, too.  I'll give that they win off the field on some counts but not totally so because to me winning off the field shouldn't include non stop excuse making, spin with arrogance and players wanting to leave. 

I have gotten to think that Ron talks about culture like he talks about analytics.  He knows they exist, he knows it's important, and that's basically where it stops.  He doesn't have a grasp on the details of either subject.  

 

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Ron to me is leaving for some of us (me included) as a punch line.  And I'd never have predicted that including at this time last year.  The reason why even Jay can make fun of Ron is because its a viable joke.  With all his bravado of bringing change, he likely ends up with and even worse record that Jay did which is wild.

Candidly, Jay shouldn't be clowning anybody because he was a clown himself.  Jay also had 2 things Ron never had: he had 3 years of a 10-13 starting QB.  He had McVay as OC for the years when the offense was the best.  If you gave Ron Cousins vs. Haskings/peg leg Alex/Hallock/Kyle Allen (remember him)/16 snaps of Fitzpatrick/Wentz and now Howell, I think Ron has a winning season or two.  If you give Ron Cousins AND McVay, I think he definitely has a couple of winning seasons.

 

The one and only thing I actually give Gruden credit for, and I think it's shared between him and Scot McCloughan, they went to Dan at the beginning of the 2015 season and forced the issue to start Kirk instead of Robert.  I think that was a Jay decision corroborated and supported by GMSM.  It might be the one time he wasn't "go along to get along."  So, credit where credit is due, he managed to pull that lever when he needed to.

 

But Kirk was already there when Jay got there, and McVay was there also.  I guess you can give Jay credit for recognizing he had an outstanding coach and retaining and promoting him to OC.  

 

Jay's record of 2 winning back-to-back seasons (granted, one was an 8-7-1 squeaker), was largely due to Cousins and McVay.  Though his selection of Barry almost un-did it both years.  

 

One of Ron's biggest mistakes was to keep the entire underperforming Carolina staff together.  It was very Bruce-like in pulling the bad Tampa coaches from his time there, from a team that didn't win anything.  

 

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think its hilarious all the different ways Ron has tried to spin his legacy before the season and during the season.  It's gone from.

 

A.  We got a killer defense, congratulate me for that.  We just need to be patient with Sam.  Once Sam develops send me my Super Bowl ring after I am gone.  And I gave you my successor too in Bieniemy -- he didn't say that part but it was impliied.  This will be my roster and heck even my coach taking the team to the promise land.  Thank me for this.  I'll take my bow now. 

Galdi read the "send me my ring" quote this morning.  It's funny how none of the caveats he said came true:

 

"If we go 8-8-1 this year and he fires me" - You wish you were 8-8-1

"and next year they win the division and 40 of the 53 players we drafted" - There might not be 20 players from your team on next year's 53

"and it’s the same quarterback, I’m vindicated." - That's not looking so hot either at the moment, at least partially because of the OL you assembled and the OC you brought in

"Send me my Super Bowl ring. That’s the way I look at it." - Yeah, bud, not so much.  

 

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

B.  Maybe the rest of the team isn't hot but all that matters is Sam Howell, you see how well he's playing, I found the QB!

That was looking ok for a bit.  Now?  Not so much. 

 

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

C.   Dan didn't deserve the beating he took from the media.  He's a really good man and he gave me everything I ever wanted.  But heck most people probably forgot about me saying that.  I say a lot of things then later do a 180 on it and say the opposite.  So why not on this?  Let me repackage all of that considering I can tell my legacy isn't hot with the fans.  So let me go down the road that might work because I know they all hate Dan.  I'll tell Mike Silver who will write an article about this about how all of this is Dan's fault really. 

That was always off-putting and I'm not entirely sure why started down the defend Dan route.

 

Here are my thoughts:

- I think Rivera is a legitimately good person, family oriented, and one of the most loyal and trusting people out there.

- He also was a supreme competitor from his playing and early coaching days.

- He felt entirely wronged when he was fired from Carolina, and partially wanted to prove he could take his same staff and some of his players elsewhere and it was just bad luck they were losing in Carolina.

- The battle with cancer crushed his competitive fire, but he didn't know what to do about it. He should have retired before 2021. He wanted to win, but I don't think it mattered as much to him anymore.

- He hasn't kept up with the game.  He has brought in coaches from another generation of football, and it hasn't worked.  Even Scott Turner is essentially from another generation because he's the last of the Coryell tree, essentially.  

- Ron was painfully slow to react to anything.  Again, I think after the cancer battle, he was even more loyal to those who were here to help him through it, and that resulted in delayed obvious decisions.

- He made a really bad decision bringing in EB when he did.  Unlike others, I don't think EB is a complete and total moron.  I do think he's a first time play-caller, and literally everybody says it takes time to really get the feel of how to do that consistently over games.  But doing a system change in year 4 with a 23 year old first year starting QB going into a must-win season was a recipe for disaster.  He could have brought in the ghost of Bill Walsh and I'm not sure how much better it would have been given the situation he put everybody in. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:04 AM, Going Commando said:

We can guess it based on probability, but we don't know it.  She's a journalist, she can't publish that kind of article without an actual source, and probably two.  Someone in position to know for sure what is happening is talking to her and they shouldn't be.

I wouldn't go that far.  Rossini has stretched the truth a lot over the years. She can turn the assistant equipment manager's girlfriend into "sources inside the building" because the girlfriend came into the building to deliver a ham sandwich to the assistant equipment manager.  

 

She's very careful with the way she words how she describes her sources so as not to get in trouble.  Let's look at the way she put this:

 

"“At this point it’s understood around the building based on multiple people I have spoken with that Ron Rivera and some front office members will be fired,”

 

Let's pull that apart a little bit: She's talked to multiple people.  Ok, but she doesn't say who those people are or what positions.  Often times you'll see terms like "team officials" or "league officials" or something like that.  "Multiple people I have spoken to" = literally anybody with any connection.

 

"Understood around the building."  That doesn't really say anything other than the random people she spoke to are reading the tea leaves like literally everybody else knowing Rivera is going to be fired because they've gone 4-10, including a putrid 2-10 over the last 12 after a 2-0 start.  And the wins were against the Falcons (who just lost to the 1-win Panthers) and the Patriots, who are God Awful.  So everybody knows how this is going to end.  

 

“Since acquiring the team, new owner Josh Harris has had the vision to keep Rivera in place through the end of the season, then move on. It’s really not a secret anymore.”

 

That is straight from the files of "things which have been reported about 1000 times."  It never was a secret.  

 

I don't doubt Rossini talked to people.  I'm sure they were better sources than the one I described above.  But how much better?  I'm not sure.  It comes off as hearsay to get her name out there as somebody reporting something, which she's pretty famous for.  

[Skinsinparadise]

@Voice_of_Reason that's quite an essay.  

 

I agree with most of it.  I think the wild thing about is era is i think for the most part he's leaving as a punchline and its all his own doing.

 

I thought it was ironic that Finlay in his last podcast made the same analogy I did to Bruce Allen which is they both had a strange combination of arrogance and complacency in the backdrop of mediocrity to worse.

 

I agree that he seemed to lose fire, probably because of the cancer.  I am sympathetic to him on that front. 

 

But the off putting arrogant-delusional comments cemented in my mind at least that Ron leaves here as a punchline.  He's very attuned to the media perception of himself and clearly has great relationship with the national media.  But i am gathering he's going to hate all the narratives when he leaves about how the next staff is bigger, better, faster than Ron's regime and they are cleaning up Ron's mess and poor roster building and bad culture in the context of winning.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@Voice_of_Reason that's quite an essay.  

You, of all people, do not get to comment on people writing essays about anything.

 

 

[profusion]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Here are my thoughts:

- I think Rivera is a legitimately good person, family oriented, and one of the most loyal and trusting people out there.

- He also was a supreme competitor from his playing and early coaching days.

- He felt entirely wronged when he was fired from Carolina, and partially wanted to prove he could take his same staff and some of his players elsewhere and it was just bad luck they were losing in Carolina.

- The battle with cancer crushed his competitive fire, but he didn't know what to do about it. He should have retired before 2021. He wanted to win, but I don't think it mattered as much to him anymore.

- He hasn't kept up with the game.  He has brought in coaches from another generation of football, and it hasn't worked.  Even Scott Turner is essentially from another generation because he's the last of the Coryell tree, essentially.  

- Ron was painfully slow to react to anything.  Again, I think after the cancer battle, he was even more loyal to those who were here to help him through it, and that resulted in delayed obvious decisions.

- He made a really bad decision bringing in EB when he did.  Unlike others, I don't think EB is a complete and total moron.  I do think he's a first time play-caller, and literally everybody says it takes time to really get the feel of how to do that consistently over games.  But doing a system change in year 4 with a 23 year old first year starting QB going into a must-win season was a recipe for disaster.  He could have brought in the ghost of Bill Walsh and I'm not sure how much better it would have been given the situation he put everybody in. 

 

 

This is basically my take on Ron, as well.

 

I'd add that Ron was dealing with cancer at the exact time that the Snyder regime was beginning to implode. Lots of non-football stuff was in the headlines constantly, and I think that took its toll on Ron's morale and motivation. He's seemed like of a shell of himself for the last couple years.

 

He needed to hire top-shelf coordinators early on and become more of an administrator. He sort of tried that, I guess, but he made poor choices.

 

Eh, it'll be academic in a couple weeks.

[Chris 44]

18 days and a wake up

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You, of all people, do not get to comment on people writing essays about anything.

 

 

 

I post a lot.  But I think you got even me beat not just today as for when you go long, you go very long. 😎

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I post a lot.  But I think you got even me beat not just today as for when you go long, you go very long. 😎

I am now going to highlight every War and Peace length post you make on the backup Linebacker from Purdue and how he might/might not fit the scheme of a defensive coordinator who hasn't been hired yet. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim has doubled down muiltiple times it won't Belichick.  But lol it seems like the national media really really really thinks they should hire Belichick. 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim has doubled down muiltiple times it won't Belichick.  But lol it seems like the national media really really really thinks they should hire Belichick. 

Who is this?

 

It won't be Belichick.  He's either staying put (what I think after all is said and done) or he's going to Carolina.  The other option is the Raiders because Brady is somehow involved and there are connections there.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Who is this?

 

It won't be Belichick.  He's either staying put (what I think after all is said and done) or he's going to Carolina.  The other option is the Raiders because Brady is somehow involved and there are connections there.

 

Different articles about it.  ESPN guys.    Breer.   He pops on different articles linked to this team. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Different articles about it.  ESPN guys.    Breer.   He pops on different articles linked to this team. 

I was hoping you were going to say Josina Anderson so I could go on a Josina Anderson rant.  
 

Now I’m disappointed.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I was hoping you were going to say Josina Anderson so I could go on a Josina Anderson rant.  
 

Now I’m disappointed.  

 

It was actually Jay Gruden and Chris Russell and Thor Nystrom.

[skinzplay]

When in doubt, listen to Keim. Always.