😀😀 Ron fired days ago. Mission Accomplished.😀😄

[Koolblue13]

18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep.

 

Keim and Logan Paulsen continue to harp on bad spacing as to the receivers in this scheme.

 

Beiniemy's calling card seems to be that he's intense and he likes to throw the ball a lot.  That's not enough for me.

 

It's pretty clear that Terry doesn't dig him and I don't think its because Terry is soft.

Reading those articles about Slowick is pretty enticing. I'm not high on either Johnson, especially the Eagles one (I was last year).

[FootballZombie]

EB had an oline that we as fans were calling out as putrid well before the season started alongside a inexperienced QB and he saw fit to run an offense that called more passing plays than any other team in the NFL... and for the majority of the season said pass plays were of the long developing variety with little to no usage of quick dumpoffs, hots or bailouts. He also pushed for the acquisition of talent that has turned out to be well below sub par.

 

EB helped to make his bed and then proceeded to crap all over it by repeatedly doing the worst possible things you can do w/ the assets he had. He too often fails to prioritize the better parts of his offense and as a result he developed something that is worse than the sum of it parts, which was not exactly great to begin with. He has been nothing but an epic wombo-combo of ignorance and hubris, and the hubris is unearned.

 

There is no attempt to mold system or scheme to personnel. There is minimal attempt to alter gameplan to take advantage of opponent weakness. There is just EBs system.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

EB had an oline that we as fans were calling out as putrid well before the season started alongside a inexperienced QB and he saw fit to run an offense that called more passing plays than any other team in the NFL... and for the majority of the season said pass plays were of the long developing variety with little to no usage of quick dumpoffs, hots or bailouts. He also pushed for the acquisition of talent that has turned out to be well below sub par.

 

EB helped to make his bed and then proceeded to crap all over it by repeatedly doing the worst possible things you can do w/ the assets he had. He too often fails to prioritize the better parts of his offense and as a result he developed something that is worse than the sum of it parts, which was not exactly great to begin with. He has been nothing but an epic wombo-combo of ignorance and hubris, and the hubris is unearned.

 

There is no attempt to mold system or scheme to personnel. There is minimal attempt to alter gameplan to take advantage of opponent weakness. There is just EBs system.

Eloquently put and exactly right.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 hours ago, skinzplay said:

EB should've never had to move to another OC position. His next move from KC should've been as HC. 
 

Lesser accomplished coordinators got HC gigs. You don't need Jessica Fletcher or Colombo to help understand why.

I subscribed to this thought originally, but after seeing EB in action - Nah.

 

I agree that the deck clearly isn’t stacked in his favor.  But there’s been opportunity and he’s squandered it over and over again.  Apparently the guy lives at the facility but you’d never know it by the way he game-plans and calls games.  His first 15 is regularly trash and never takes advantage of the defenses weaknesses.  Too many times, plays are dead before the ball is even snapped.  Nothing about his personality or performance screams head coach or even OC to me.

[skinzplay]

I definitely get what you're saying @BatteredFanSyndrome, and I wouldn't argue against your point. But my point was more so that he should've had a chance to be a HC, not come here an an OC in an environment where the team was doomed to fail under the direction of Chief Crossed Arms. Obviously there wasn't going to be a coaching change here in the midst of the impending ownership change, but dude earned his shot. Had he got his chance, Pritchard would've been his OC, and I think some impressive things would've come outta that.

[CapsSkins]

8 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Pritchard would've been his OC, and I think some impressive things would've come outta that.

 

Based on what?

 

Nothing has suggested to me that Bieniemy would be a successful HC. And insiders have reported that EB has been de facto HC here this season, anyway. Running practices, totally controlling the O, etc. He very much owns a big part of the stink here.

[skinzplay]

He's not the one who bungled the OL, screwed up any hope of possibly developing linemen by elevating Wharton, drafted JJ from Good Times in the first round when we had glaring needs elsewhere, signed a man corner (W. Jackson III) and asked him to play zone, drafted Kamin Jn the first when no other team would've taken him before the third, and the list goes on. I'm not guaranteeing dude would be a successful HC, never said it. I said he earned a shot to show it. KOC had done zip to show he'd be a successful HC (took the elevator a few times with Boy Wonder in LA, wasn't really even the OC out there.....but he promotes himself well and knows who to promote himself to). Just one example.

Edited December 14, 2023 by skinzplay

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

He's not the one who bungled the OL, screwed up any hope of possibly developing linemen by elevating Wharton, drafted JJ from Good Times in the first round when we had glaring needs elsewhere, and the list goes on. I'm not guaranteeing dude would be a successful HC, never said it. I said he earned a shot to show it. KOC had done zip to show he'd be a successful HC (took the elevator a few times with Boy Wonder in LA, wasn't really even the OC out there.....but he promotes himself well and knows who to promote himself to). Just one example.

 

The question of "did EB deserve to get a HC gig to prove himself?" vs. "is EB a good HC?" are related but separate questions. I don't have visibility into his HC interviews, or anyone else's, so I can't say. I certainly hear the media narrative, but am not in a position to opine as to its merits.

 

But separately, you are totally letting him off the hook. First of all, EB is the one who fired John Matsko at OL coach and elevated Wharton in the offseason so I have no idea why you're absolving him of that. And he's the one who brought in Wylie and then started him at RT. He's the one who started Nick Gates at Center as long as he did. He's the one with an intensely lopsided play-calling style with long-developing routes that never had a chance and receivers who don't get open.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Reading those articles about Slowick is pretty enticing. I'm not high on either Johnson, especially the Eagles one (I was last year).

 

I love the profile of Ben Johnson.  I am not worried about name this poster tuning into name that Lions game and putting whatever off game on him.  Clearly, if the offense is ranked 3rd and Goff is even better now than he was under McVay he's doing something right.  But the kicker for me is what I've heard about him as a dude -- I keep hearing he's a leader of men, great communicator, etc.

 

Slowick and F. Smith's profile interest me but i don't know a heck of a lot about their personality.  But both clearly appeal.  Slowick especially if they draft a QB. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

He's not the one who bungled the OL, screwed up any hope of possibly developing linemen by elevating Wharton, drafted JJ from Good Times in the first round when we had glaring needs elsewhere, and the list goes on. I'm not guaranteeing dude would be a successful HC, never said it. I said he earned a shot to show it. KOC had done zip to show he'd be a successful HC (took the elevator a few times with Boy Wonder in LA, wasn't really even the OC out there.....but he promotes himself well and knows who to promote himself to). Just one example.

 

I got the vibe that Bieinemy was heavily involved in their off season shopping list including Wylie and Gates.

 

Heck multiple beat guys have said they hear that Bieniemy is the defacto HC.  He's supposedly very powerful behind the scenes -- apparently some players think too powerful.

[skinzplay]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

The question of "did EB deserve to get a HC gig to prove himself?" vs. "is EB a good HC?" are related but separate questions. I don't have visibility into his HC interviews, or anyone else's, so I can't say. I certainly hear the media narrative, but am not in a position to opine as to its merits.

 

But separately, you are totally letting him off the hook. First of all, EB is the one who fired John Matsko at OL coach and elevated Wharton in the offseason so I have no idea why you're absolving him of that. And he's the one who brought in Wylie and then started him at RT. He's the one who started Nick Gates at Center as long as he did. He's the one with an intensely lopsided play-calling style with long-developing routes that never had a chance and receivers who don't get open.

Matsko had had it with RR, and was going to quit. EB had absolutely nothing to do with Matsko's departure. And Wharton was the in-house Carolina guy that RR wanted to elevate.

Hey SIP, I'm not letting RR off the hook. He's the HC. He should be leading. Otherwise, what is he there for? Keim will have more to say on these things in the off season. Stay tuned.

[CapsSkins]

7 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Matsko had had it with RR, and was going to quit. EB had absolutely nothing to do with Matsko's departure. And Wharton was the in-house Carolina guy that RR wanted to elevate.

Hey SIP, I'm not letting RR off the hook. He's the HC. He should be leading. Otherwise, what is he there for? Keim will have more to say on these things in the off season. Stay tuned.

 

Where did you read that? The reporting at the time suggested it was Bieniemy's influence as he put his staff together (and btw, Matsko was also a Carolina who had been with Rivera thru Ron's entire HC career):

 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Matsko had had it with RR, and was going to quit. EB had absolutely nothing to do with Matsko's departure. And Wharton was the in-house Carolina guy that RR wanted to elevate.

Hey SIP, I'm not letting RR off the hook. He's the HC. He should be leading. Otherwise, what is he there for? Keim will have more to say on these things in the off season. Stay tuned.

 

Is that insider info that you obtained on Matsko?  Its been a long time since I've heard Keim talk about that issue, I would think I'd remember that it was Rivera who was fed up with Matsko if he said that.  Matsko was leading the draft meetings and interviews for O line prospects just a little before that canning.  He's been with Rivera forever.  But if you did a private zoom with Keim or whatever else.  I am interested.   

 

Keim sometimes reveals more in that type of setting.  Because it would make me wonder what went south between him and Rivera especially considering Rivera was using Matsko to lead all the draft interviews of O line not long before the firing.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinzplay]

Keim said over and over that they had someone in house that they liked. It was always Wharton, so RR had someone loyal to him. Something went down between RR and Matsko. As I've indicated a few times, Matsko never wanted the team to sign or start those retread Carolina linemen that RR insisted on signing. That was part of it. He also wanted Cosmi at one position exclusively, no position flex for him.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

 

Hey SIP, I'm not letting RR off the hook. He's the HC. He should be leading. Otherwise, what is he there for? Keim will have more to say on these things in the off season. Stay tuned.

 

If you've been reading any of posts for months, am far from letting Rivera off the hook on anything.

 

But I've read and heard enough that I know Bieniemy wasn't some minor figure in the coaching staff this year and just at the mercy of Rivera's incompetence.  I've heard a couple of times he's super powerful in that building and has been so all season.

 

It makes Rivera come off to me lazy and weak.  So none of that takes Rivera off the hook.  But I've heard enough to know that Bieniemy is part of the tornado in that building.

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, skinzplay said:

Keim said over and over that they had someone in house that they liked. It was always Wharton, so RR had someone loyal to him. Something went down between RR and Matsko. As I've indicated a few times, Matsko never wanted the team to sign or start those retread Carolina linemen that RR insisted on signing. That was part of it. He also wanted Cosmi at one position exclusively, no position flex for him.

 

This makes no sense. Matsko was a Rivera coaching staff lifer. And Bieniemy brought in other position from outside the organization like Pritchard and Bobby Engram whom EB hired from Wisconsin to coach WRs after Drew Terrell left for Arizona.

 

Nothing suggests Rivera gave EB some mandate to keep Ron loyalists on staff, and in fact everything we hear is the opposite - that Ron let EB have total control over the offense to the point players have grumbled and asked Rivera to take back some of that control.

[skinzplay]

It makes sense for EB to fire Matsko and then hire someone who'd never been an OL coach and never will be again after leaving Ashburn?

[UK Skins]

The thing for me is always could I do better at Madden than X does in real life. Now I'm so average I play Franchise, not online, but I genuinely think I could do a better job of play calling than EB. Seriously. AND roster construction, although that's vaguer as we don't have absolute knowledge of what he was responsible for. I do blame him for the O Line though.

[CapsSkins]

4 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

It makes sense for EB to fire Matsko and then hire someone who'd never been an OL coach and never will be again after leaving Ashburn?

 

It makes sense to fire someone who doesn't appear to be willing to execute what you want and promote someone who will, yes. The fact that the outcome was ****ty is another matter, and something that EB bears responsibility for.

 

Unless you think EB wanted to bring in an external hire and Ron said no, even though he brought in external hires for QB and WR, but for some reason OL coach specifically had to be a Ron loyalist? Come on, man.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by CapsSkins

[srtman04]

21 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This is going to be unpopular, but from what I've seen, I'd stay the hell away from Ben Johnson.  I don't care that he is young, unshaven Sean McVay lookalike. I've watched enough of the Lions, I don't think they're going to finish the season well and I don't think his offense is going to translate to a new team well at all.  Just a gut feel.  

 

Yeah I hear you on Ben Johnson.   It looks like the league may have figured him out, and he's unable to adjust.    We'll see, but so far it looks like you're right on that prediction.   

[philibusters]

I am pretty impressed by Ben Johnson.  I think you are seeing the limitations of Goff as QB.

 

I remember listening to the playcallers podcast that was out this summer about the spread of the Shannahan offense.   McVay did really well with Goff at first.   For McVay's first two years with the Rams (Goff's 2nd and 3rd years), Goff did really well.  They were one of the best teams in teh NFC and lost a close game against Atlanta I think (in 2017), then made the Superbowl in 2018.  But in 2018, teams somewhat figured out McVay's offense.  Its not that people were not open, it is that they learned to disguise what they were doing//take away the plays first read--and Goff wasn't good at reading defenses postsnap.

 

I feel like some of that may be happening in Detroit.  Defenses may be learning how to take away the first read against Ben Johnson's offense.   That doesn't mean guys are not open, but in order to find guys, Goff will have to make reads post-snap and he is still not good at that.  Goff has pretty natural and easy accuracy.  Doesn't have a big arm, but natural accuracy and some timing mean that if his first read is consistently open he make the offense run well.   But his lack of ability post-snap does create problem if teams start to figure out how to take away the first read.  

Edited December 15, 2023 by philibusters

[kingdaddy]

Antonio Pierce needs an interview with the Commanders if LV doesn't hire him. He brings culture and attitude that is awesome....look at his team playing for him. He is legit.

[88Comrade2000]

8 hours ago, skinzplay said:

I definitely get what you're saying @BatteredFanSyndrome, and I wouldn't argue against your point. But my point was more so that he should've had a chance to be a HC, not come here an an OC in an environment where the team was doomed to fail under the direction of Chief Crossed Arms. Obviously there wasn't going to be a coaching change here in the midst of the impending ownership change, but dude earned his shot. Had he got his chance, Pritchard would've been his OC, and I think some impressive things would've come outta that.

Actually, coming here has exposed EB to be nothing but a fraud.  His tenure here has shown while he had the title of OC in KC; he really wasn't behind there offense's success. If he truly was running the offense there like he has here, no way KC would've made it to 3 superbowls and won 2 of them.

 

He got the interviews but think the people who interview saw thru his façade and why he's never gotten hired. If he somehow convinces someone to hire him as head coach; he will quickly show why he's never gotten the job.  

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, philibusters said:

I am pretty impressed by Ben Johnson.  I think you are seeing the limitations of Goff as QB.

 

I remember listening to the playcallers podcast that was out this summer about the spread of the Shannahan offense.   McVay did really well with Goff at first.   For McVay's first two years with the Rams (Goff's 2nd and 3rd years), Goff did really well.  They were one of the best teams in teh NFC and lost a close game against Atlanta I think (in 2017), then made the Superbowl in 2018.  But in 2018, teams somewhat figured out McVay's offense.  Its not that people were not open, it is that they learned to disguise what they were doing//take away the plays first read--and Goff wasn't good at reading defenses postsnap.

 

I feel like some of that may be happening in Detroit.  Defenses may be learning how to take away the first read against Ben Johnson's offense.   That doesn't mean guys are not open, but in order to find guys, Goff will have to make reads post-snap and he is still not good at that.  Goff has pretty natural and easy accuracy.  Doesn't have a big arm, but natural accuracy and some timing mean that if his first read is consistently open he make the offense run well.   But his lack of ability post-snap does create problem if teams start to figure out how to take away the first read.  

i've watched Goff since Thanksgiving and believe you're on to something with him. The Packers and Bears have both exposed him...good post. 

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Antonio Pierce needs an interview with the Commanders if LV doesn't hire him. He brings culture and attitude that is awesome....look at his team playing for him. He is legit.

Slow down. He beat the Chargers. That's like beating the Commanders.

[FootballZombie]

3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Antonio Pierce needs an interview with the Commanders if LV doesn't hire him. He brings culture and attitude that is awesome....look at his team playing for him. He is legit.

 

Ehhh...

They dropped a goose egg a couple of days ago. Where was the attitude then.

 

I think this was just a case of a team that just got kicked in the pride getting the opportunity to play a team that has had its heart already ripped out. I think any team comes out rabid in that scenario.