The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[DiscoBob]

23 hours ago, Stone Cold said:

Mathis is a Unit

 

Ha... you just said unit

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, Going Commando said:

It really can't be over if he gets hurt.  Carson plays a style of football where he gets banged up and missing time is always in the picture with him, and the Eagles still won a SB after he went down.  Heinicke did save our season last year, he helped keep us in the hunt for three months. 

2 points:

 

1. Wentz hasn't missed a regular season snap since 2018.  

2. TH didn't save anything last year.  The 4 game winning streak was due to running the hell out of the ball and better defense.  TH played very "ok" during 3 of those games, and well during one of them.  He had nothing to do with the last win, where he was horrendous.  

 

Literally 99% of the time if your starter goes down, your season is over.  There are SO few exceptions over the years of that not being the case (I've been through these before, but AGAIN)

- Brady came in for an injured Bledsoe.

- Warner came in for an injured Trent Green

- Steve Young came in for an injured Montana ** Young was the consensus #1 overall pick in the 1984 draft, so everybody knew he had talent.  

- Big Ben came in as a rookie backup and won 15 straight games. ** He was the #10 overall pick, so he was going to play eventually.

- Hostetler came in for an injured Sims and the Giants won the SB on the "Wide Left" game.  

- Nick Foles came in for an injured Wentz and the Eagles won the SB. 

- Doug Williams, if you want to put him on this list, you can make an argument, but he didn't come in because Schroeder was hurt, just because Gibbs thought he was better in that moment. 

 

Unless somebody can come up with an addition, that's the list, and it goes back 30 years.  

 

If your starter goes down, you have to be REALLY REALLY REALLY lucky, because otherwise, it's game over.  Literally.  

 

 

EDIT: Even if you add the @SkinsFTW list, it's still REALLY REALY REALLY unlikely.  I'm going to respond to that later.  

Edited August 15, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

1992 Stan Humphries San Diego 11-5

That's a good pull.  I had forgotten.  

8 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

1980 Jim Plunkett Oakland (Won SB)

Another good pull.  Plunkett never gets enough credit. 

 

8 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

1998 Randall Cunningham Minnesota 15-1

I thought Randall won that job in TC.  Maybe Johnson got hurt in TC, but I thought Randall won the job eventually and just started the entire year.  

 

8 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

1983 Dan Marino Miami 12-4

This was a coaches decision.  Not an injury.  

 

8 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

1998 Vinny Testeverde NYJ 12-4

I don't think this was injury related either, I think it was a coaches decision, but I could be wrong.

 

8 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

1983 Dave Kreig Seattle 9-7 but almost got to the SB vs the Redskins

I can't remember anything about this. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

who's the first dude talking?

[skinny21]

23 hours ago, moondog said:

I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if halfway through the season we hit a point where Heinicke is number 2 on game days but if wentz went down for significant time they would consider elevating Howell and giving him all the practice reps to prepare him to start. 

I think this is probably most likely, though it may depend on our record at that point.
 

But I concur with most of the rest of you. TH is the primary backup and should be. For short term injury insurance, we know he can keep us competitive. Especially if the defense actually shows up. 

Having more weapons (and hopefully a better ground game) should help too.

I’ll add that although Howell offers a lot more upside (and the chance to be our future starter), and he played well Saturday, I/we don’t really know how well he did mentally.  

 

Edit:  In regards to the convo of the season being over if a backup comes in, is that just in relation to losing your starter for the season (ie significant time)?  Or just backups that had success in the playoffs?

Edited August 15, 2022 by skinny21

[Tommytd21]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

who's the first dude talking?

Mike Daniels

[Skinsinparadise]

I've defended Del Rio a little, based more on his pedigree than anything I've seen here.  But I'll say two things we saw in that preseason game that dovetails off of the season.

 

A.  The first drive the defense gets carved -- both in the first and 2nd half.

 

b.  Third down defense.

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[NeverSurrender]

The amount of TH hate on this board just baffles me.  I like the guy and there are times where I loved him last year there were also times I didn't want to watch the team because of him.  That being said some people on here are just off the wall hateful of this guy.  I try to be objective about him as a player, there are things he does very well and things that he does at very below average rate, however It was entirely possible for us to go 3-15 last year after Fitz went down.  TH was a big reason we didn't and not just for his talent but his mentality spilled over into our depleted offense and they fought like hell to keep us in it.  Those that cant see it probably didnt play sports at any real competitive level.  

 

Now Im going to shock the TH haters...... I love the Sam Howell pick, I was super happy when I saw it like most I said "might be the steal of the draft"  Told my girl as we were eating at Wongs Tacos.  Yes I remember where I was when we made the pick.  I was super excited to see him play on Saturday and boy did he not dissapoint.  Love the way he played Kinda reminded me of TH with his escapability, his arm looked live and I think he has HUGE upside.  I can see a situation where Wentz dosent work out and we have Howell as a starter and TH as a back up in the next few years.
 

Having said that, I think Wentz looked good and thought he was about to really get in rythm there before he came out.  Overall im happy about our QB situation.  1-3. 

 

People freaking out about preseason 3rd down defense need to chill.  I also believe the JDR hate goes beyond football here.  I hope they make good adjustments and have a much better season. 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

The amount of TH hate on this board just baffles me.  I like the guy and there are times where I loved him last year there were also times I didn't want to watch the team because of him.  That being said some people on here are just off the wall hateful of this guy.  I try to be objective about him as a player, there are things he does very well and things that he does at very below average rate, however It was entirely possible for us to go 3-15 last year after Fitz went down.  TH was a big reason we didn't and not just for his talent but his mentality spilled over into our depleted offense and they fought like hell to keep us in it.  Those that cant see it probably didnt play sports at any real competitive level.  

 

Now Im going to shock the TH haters...... I love the Sam Howell pick, I was super happy when I saw it like most I said "might be the steal of the draft"  Told my girl as we were eating at Wongs Tacos.  Yes I remember where I was when we made the pick.  I was super excited to see him play on Saturday and boy did he not dissapoint.  Love the way he played Kinda reminded me of TH with his escapability, his arm looked live and I think he has HUGE upside.  I can see a situation where Wentz dosent work out and we have Howell as a starter and TH as a back up in the next few years.
 

Having said that, I think Wentz looked good and thought he was about to really get in rythm there before he came out.  Overall im happy about our QB situation.  1-3. 

 

People freaking out about preseason 3rd down defense need to chill.  I also believe the JDR hate goes beyond football here.  I hope they make good adjustments and have a much better season. 

 

To be fair there's one guy who absolutely despises TH, a great many of us who like him for what he is but understand he is so limited that he doesn't give us much of a chance with his arm strength and then people who adore him beyond words.

 

So in other words its a typical forum that is wrought with extremes and in betweens. 

 

My 3rd down % stance has nothing to do with Del Rio off the field and it's not even totally ON Del Rio.  But Del Rio is part of it. Our players aren't living up to the hype and cash they cost in many ways at this point. But it IS preseason. So we'll see.

Edited August 15, 2022 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[CommanderCarson]

37 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

To be fair there's one guy who absolutely despises TH, a great many of us who like him for what he is but understand he is so limited that he doesn't give us much of a chance with his arm strength and then people who adore him beyond words.

 

So in other words its a typical forum that is wrought with extremes and in betweens. 

 

My 3rd down % stance has nothing to do with Del Rio off the field and it's not even totally ON Del Rio.  But Del Rio is part of it. Our players aren't living up to the hype and cash they cost in many ways at this point. But it IS preseason. So we'll see.

It’s not just one person. Many are absolutely dismissive of TH, which is fine. But then on the flip side will argue we aren’t guaranteed to win more games to cover their ass if we do only win the same amount or one or two more games with Wentz. I get things are outside of a QBs control and who knows maybe the defense sinks to historically bad lows (I think they will be much better, give me a break about first pre season game) but in theory a huge upgrade at the most important position in the game will lead to a sizeable uptick in wins. Cause if heineke is half as bad as people clamor in here, we wouldn’t have won a game last year. Many teams struggle to win a game once their starter goes down. Or it’s a testament to the coaching and rest of the roster, in which case people should confidently believe we win at least 10 games. I suppose the reason for the disconnect is we just never win that many games, so it’s hard to confidently predict that. But there is a disconnect for sure..

 

To be clear, Heineke is limited and is best suited as a backup. And I’m pumped for Wentz. But please do not sugar coat it by saying it’s just one guy. Many threads turn into a heineke bash sesh, and it’s definitely not just one person.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, CommanderCarson said:

It’s not just one person. Many are absolutely dismissive of TH, which is fine. But then on the flip side will argue we aren’t guaranteed to win more games to cover their ass if we do only win the same amount or one or two more games with Wentz. I get things are outside of a QBs control and who knows maybe the defense sinks to historically bad lows (I think they will be much better, give me a break about first pre season game) but in theory a huge upgrade at the most important position in the game will lead to a sizeable uptick in wins. Cause if heineke is half as bad as people clamor in here, we wouldn’t have won a game last year. Many teams struggle to win a game once their starter goes down. Or it’s a testament to the coaching and rest of the roster, in which case people should confidently believe we win at least 10 games. I suppose the reason for the disconnect is we just never win that many games, so it’s hard to confidently predict that. But there is a disconnect for sure..

 

To be clear, Heineke is limited and is best suited as a backup. And I’m pumped for Wentz. But please do not sugar coat it by saying it’s just one guy. Many threads turn into a heineke bash sesh, and it’s definitely not just one person.

 

I don't think we'd win more games with Heinicke this year. A lot of his stuff was his fortitude and escapability. Now that there is film of the way defenses stopped him he's not all that difficult to force to make mistakes. The magic shine is off of him. 

 

I'm not sure we win more with Wentz, either, though. But I know Wentz is a better quarterback than Heinicke. Question is: Does he have the fearlessness that Heinicke does when it comes to extending plays. He is better across the board at everything else. But that fearlessness is the one thing that makes Heinicke tick. And it can't carry a NFL team. 

[Koolblue13]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

41 minutes ago, CommanderCarson said:

Many threads turn into a heineke bash sesh, and it’s definitely not just one person.

Literally one dude proudly hates Heineke.  @Koolblue13

 

Most everyone else, while critical of his abilities as a player, doesn't hate him. Acknowledging that Howell actually has the physical skills necessary to play the position and being intrigued to see more of him rather than Heineke is not bashing him.

 

The reason it appears to be a bash session is because of basically two posters that can turn any thread into a Heineke thread, that feel the need to either bring him up themselves or defend his honor at every turn.

[NewCliche21]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't think we'd win more games with Heinicke this year. A lot of his stuff was his fortitude and escapability. Now that there is film of the way defenses stopped him he's not all that difficult to force to make mistakes. The magic shine is off of him. 

 

I'm not sure we win more with Wentz, either, though. But I know Wentz is a better quarterback than Heinicke. Question is: Does he have the fearlessness that Heinicke does when it comes to extending plays. He is better across the board at everything else. But that fearlessness is the one thing that makes Heinicke tick. And it can't carry a NFL team. 

 

Exactly this.

I feel like TH also knows who he is and is always running a 2:00 drill for his career. He's got nothing to lose so that fearlessness is necessary for him to survive. Wentz doesn't have that experience, Philly paid a lot to move up to draft him at #2. Heinicke had several appearances as a back up wherein he was injured before being out of the game for a couple seasons.

None of this is Wentz's fault, but he won't have a need to put it all out there like his career depends on it because he's never had to.

[NoCalMike]

It's not about hating Heinicke, it's about realizing his ceiling and I think the fanbase is on the cusp of being back to the belief that being a winning team is possible and not just in the random, luck of the draw ways they have been in during isolated seasons over the past 30 years, but in order for that to happen you need a QB that can do things that he can't and I'm sorry but when you go into the season with him as the starter (2021) it takes a certain amount of wind out of your sails regarding the season as a whole.   I wouldn't be that down if he had to play a game or two in 2022, but if the situation ends up where he is playing a month or more, it is going to feel like another lost season where we are just evaluating the good players to hold onto for the future. 

[skinsfan93]

It’s great to see Samuels out there. Yes Wentz loves his tall targets like Alshon or Pittman but he loves his tight ends too. Ertz was a pro bowler under him. Hell even Mo Cox had like 10 tds last year.
 

One guy Wentz relied on his last year in Philly was Greg Ward. Similar in size to Samuels and was a safety valve for Wentz. Hopefully Samuels turns to him when he needs those 5-6 yards for a first. Of course JD is an option as well. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[skinsfan93]

Darn it! There goes another vet I would have liked to sign as depth for our backers. 
 

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/08/broncos-to-sign-lb-joe-schobert

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Bifflog]

One of my low-key like's from the preseason game was Dyami Brown, dunno if anyone else liked his work in the middle of the game.  Hope he's coming on some...

 

 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Bifflog said:

One of my low-key like's from the preseason game was Dyami Brown, dunno if anyone else liked his work in the middle of the game.  Hope he's coming on some...

 

 

Yeah, he's looking good. Even took a Heini murder ball and then made a nice catch the next play.

[Skinsinparadise]