2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Warhead36]

The 2021 QB class was supposed to be godly too. Well Trevor Lawrence has mostly been "meh" (played great today though), Zack Wilson has already been benched, Trey Lance is hurt and sucked the little bit he played, Justin Fields can run but can't pass worth a lick(and is also hurt), and Mac Jones is also kinda just "meh"(and has also had injuries).

 

The 2020 class is kicking butt though. Man that was our window and we effed it up. Imagine this team with Tua or Herbert at QB(or I guess Hurts but nobody had him pegged as a 1st rounder). This current roster with one of those QBs is a potential NFC dynasty.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Warhead36

[Zim489]

18 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I guess it depends on what "people" you're reefing to. Definitely the consensus was this one was going to be better than last year's. Even a good class. But no one I listened to has been talking up the class for years or acting like it was anything historic. 

Yeah not a single person has put it close to the 2021 level and was unlikely to reach 2020. 

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The 2021 QB class was supposed to be godly too. Well Trevor Lawrence has mostly been "meh" (played great today though), Zack Wilson has already been benched, Trey Lance is hurt and sucked the little bit he played, Justin Fields can run but can't pass worth a lick(and is also hurt), and Mac Jones is also kinda just "meh"(and has also had injuries).

 

The 2020 class is kicking butt though. Man that was our window and we effed it up. Imagine this team with Tua or Herbert at QB(or I guess Hurts but nobody had him pegged as a 1st rounder). This current roster with one of those QBs is a potential NFC dynasty.

As a prospect class you still dont change how you view 2021. 

[Rex Tomb]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

The 2021 QB class was supposed to be godly too. Well Trevor Lawrence has mostly been "meh" (played great today though), Zack Wilson has already been benched, Trey Lance is hurt and sucked the little bit he played, Justin Fields can run but can't pass worth a lick(and is also hurt), and Mac Jones is also kinda just "meh"(and has also had injuries).

 

The 2020 class is kicking butt though. Man that was our window and we effed it up. Imagine this team with Tua or Herbert at QB(or I guess Hurts but nobody had him pegged as a 1st rounder). This current roster with one of those QBs is a potential NFC dynasty.

From what I remember Tua was a fringe top 10 pick mostly because of his hip situation. Also no one saw using a top 10 pick on Herbert, certainly not top 5.  It’s easy to play the hindsight game but at the time we made a pick that was widely regarded as “can’t miss”.

[KillBill26]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35132143/top-nfl-draft-prospect-olu-fashanu-return-penn-state

 

OT Fashanu to return to school next year.  Bummer. One of the top tackles, and I'm intrigued by the idea of drafting a RT and kicking Cosmi in to RG.  We probably won't be drafting high enough to have landed Fashanu, but thinning out the position for the top prospects just means the next best guy or two won't fall to us either.  

 

Every top CB needs to declare!!

[Warhead36]

23 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

From what I remember Tua was a fringe top 10 pick mostly because of his hip situation. Also no one saw using a top 10 pick on Herbert, certainly not top 5.  It’s easy to play the hindsight game but at the time we made a pick that was widely regarded as “can’t miss”.

For sure. I advocated for Young as much as anyone so I can't say anything. I'm just playing the what if game. Its scary how good we'd be right now with Tua or Herbert. I think we'd be in line for an NFC Championship game against the Eagles or Cowboys this year. 

[method man]

2 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35132143/top-nfl-draft-prospect-olu-fashanu-return-penn-state

 

OT Fashanu to return to school next year.  Bummer. One of the top tackles, and I'm intrigued by the idea of drafting a RT and kicking Cosmi in to RG.  We probably won't be drafting high enough to have landed Fashanu, but thinning out the position for the top prospects just means the next best guy or two won't fall to us either.  

 

Every top CB needs to declare!!

This needs to be the way. Get a quality RT and you get a good guard too in Cosmi. Add a center too and you have a much better line next year. Would be great to also upgrade Norwell

 

The other benefit of this strategy is you would also then have 4 guys who can competently play tackle vs 3 today

Edited November 29, 2022 by method man

[DazedSkinsfan]

So when it comes to QBs the one name I never see mentioned is Stetson Bennett from Georgia.  I'm not football smart enough to pick out strengths and weaknesses but this guy plays against the top talent in college and all he does is win. What's missing with his game? Footwork? Arm strength? Size? Maybe I'm wayyyy off but something about him reminds me of Romo a little bit,  especially how he moves in the pocket.  I know he's a walk on but I'm just trying to figure out what's missing and why his name doesn't come up more often with regard to the draft.

[frontline205]

It might not happen cause dudes playing like a can’t miss 1st overall pick, but I’m all for trading this pick for ammo in the 2024 draft. Using the extra pick for ammo to draft…. Caleb Williams. 
that’s always been my plan, but now the dude is getting too hot. If he can get USC into the bowl playoff and win a Heisman we might have absolutely no way of getting a team to give him up.

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, frontline205 said:

It might not happen cause dudes playing like a can’t miss 1st overall pick, but I’m all for trading this pick for ammo in the 2024 draft. Using the extra pick for ammo to draft…. Caleb Williams. 
that’s always been my plan, but now the dude is getting too hot. If he can get USC into the bowl playoff and win a Heisman we might have absolutely no way of getting a team to give him up.

The issue is we, at bare minimum, need to get 2 new OL, possibly 3. Wouldn’t be mad at a fourth but Rome wasn’t built in a day. 
 

The other issue is that, despite what Heinicke has done, going into another full season with him as the starter is worrisome. 
 

Howell would need to show he can do it for me to be comfortable with Howell/Heinicke. Then again, here’s the issue there: there may not be a viable alternative to that scenario.

[philibusters]

On 11/27/2022 at 5:45 PM, Warhead36 said:

The 2021 QB class was supposed to be godly too. Well Trevor Lawrence has mostly been "meh" (played great today though), Zack Wilson has already been benched, Trey Lance is hurt and sucked the little bit he played, Justin Fields can run but can't pass worth a lick(and is also hurt), and Mac Jones is also kinda just "meh"(and has also had injuries).

 

The 2020 class is kicking butt though. Man that was our window and we effed it up. Imagine this team with Tua or Herbert at QB(or I guess Hurts but nobody had him pegged as a 1st rounder). This current roster with one of those QBs is a potential NFC dynasty.

 

 

Last year there were rumors we may trade for Tua (back when Miami was in the Deshaun Watson conversation).   A lot of posters thought giving up a second rounder was way too much.  That shows  you how perception can change fast as now Tua is looked at as a success now.  In terms of Tua, this is the first year he has had a serviceable O-Line and I think his playcalling has improved.  Last year his O-line was in the conversation for worse pass blocking line in the league.  This year they are serviceable, not good.   But its made a big difference.  Last year he actually had decent pass catchers, but this year he has a pass catching unit that is probably in the conversation for the top 5 unit in the league.   Last year they were running a more college type offense, running the highest % of rpo's in the league.   Whether that was scheme preference or a way to mitigate a bad pass blocking O-Line is difficult to say (and it may have been a bit of both), but this year I do think they got an upgrade to the x's and o's.

Edited November 29, 2022 by philibusters

[DazedSkinsfan]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

The issue is we, at bare minimum, need to get 2 new OL, possibly 3. Wouldn’t be mad at a fourth but Rome wasn’t built in a day. 
 

The other issue is that, despite what Heinicke has done, going into another full season with him as the starter is worrisome. 
 

Howell would need to show he can do it for me to be comfortable with Howell/Heinicke. Then again, here’s the issue there: there may not be a viable alternative to that scenario.

Between FA and the draft I feel like we can fix the oline rather quickly and fill in some needs on defense.  So that leaves us once again trying to figure out the QB situation.  Obviously the way this team is built we're not going to be bad enough to get a high enough draft pick, which in my opinion is a good thing,  it proves we're that one key piece away from being a elite team.  Do we think about throwing big bucks at a Lamar Jackson,  or do we go into the 24 draft looking at a big trade up to get one of these QBs?? 

[Ball Security]

For all you tape gurus, talk to me about LBs Drew Sanders (Ark) and Jake Campbell (Iowa) as potential 2nd/3rd rounders to run with Davis.

[Zim489]

5 hours ago, frontline205 said:

It might not happen cause dudes playing like a can’t miss 1st overall pick, but I’m all for trading this pick for ammo in the 2024 draft. Using the extra pick for ammo to draft…. Caleb Williams. 
that’s always been my plan, but now the dude is getting too hot. If he can get USC into the bowl playoff and win a Heisman we might have absolutely no way of getting a team to give him up.

I seriously doubt anyone is trading out of 1.1. If it some one like Jax or Chicago that has Fields or TL they are more likely to trade one of those guys and pass up another great prospect that is cheaper for longer. This team also wont be able to trade from pick 16 or what ever to number 1. It would need more than the RG3 level trade to do. 

 

They are firmly in the middle. They need to go hard one way or the other. If Lamar makes it to the tag give up the world for him (im not super high on lamar myself) or blow it up and tank. The middle sitting can not continue. 

[philibusters]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I seriously doubt anyone is trading out of 1.1. If it some one like Jax or Chicago that has Fields or TL they are more likely to trade one of those guys and pass up another great prospect that is cheaper for longer. This team also wont be able to trade from pick 16 or what ever to number 1. It would need more than the RG3 level trade to do. 

 

They are firmly in the middle. They need to go hard one way or the other. If Lamar makes it to the tag give up the world for him (im not super high on lamar myself) or blow it up and tank. The middle sitting can not continue. 

 

Jax or Chicago would be interesting.  I still think of Lawrence as a better QB prospect than anybody in this class.  By contrast I would rate Byrce Young as a better prospect than Fields (though my thoughts on Fields have changed over the past couple months, two months ago I saw him as a likely bust, now I see him as a guy who can likely be a franchise QB along Kyler  Murray lines).  I would rate Fields in the same class of prospect as Levis and Stroud.

[Zim489]

Just now, philibusters said:

I still think of Lawrence as a better QB prospect than anybody in this class.

I do too but if they end up at 1.1 its because TLaw hasnt panned out. Same with fields. I put it at a non zero chance right now that some one trades out of the top 2 spots in 2024 if Maye and Williams seasons go like this years. 

[philibusters]

On 11/25/2022 at 12:17 AM, Rufus T Firefly said:

You're reading this numbers wrong. He has a Cap number of 12.87 mil with a dead cap hit of 5.1 mil, for a net savings of 7.77

 

FYI.

 

You are correct and that does somewhat negate my point.   A healthy Chase Roullier is definitely worth 7.77 in my mind, but if the front office thinks there is an high probability that he won't remain healthy based off those numbers, I could understand them moving on.

[Zim489]

15 hours ago, DazedSkinsfan said:

So when it comes to QBs the one name I never see mentioned is Stetson Bennett from Georgia.  I'm not football smart enough to pick out strengths and weaknesses but this guy plays against the top talent in college and all he does is win. What's missing with his game? Footwork? Arm strength? Size? Maybe I'm wayyyy off but something about him reminds me of Romo a little bit,  especially how he moves in the pocket.  I know he's a walk on but I'm just trying to figure out what's missing and why his name doesn't come up more often with regard to the draft.

Small. Small arm. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

I'm interested in that ND State OT prospect SIP, but skeptical.  Doesn't help that we're probably not going to get to watch a lot of snaps of his pre-draft.  I don't agree with Brugler, Joe Haeg and Billy Turner isn't really a strong NFL tradition at tackle, more like an average starter and a solid career back up tradition.  I think Trevor  Penning has a chance to be good, but the truth is pretty much none of the top FCS offensive linemen coming into the NFL the past decade have been that good, and pretty much all of the FCS guys who have made waves in the NFL have been skill position players and defenders.  I need to see an FCS OL hit big in the NFL before I can buy into the potential translation of other FCS OLs, because right now it feels like you get much more of a ceiling off of drafting and stashing a former rugby player like Jordan Mailata than you do with FCS guys.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I'm interested in that ND State OT prospect SIP, but skeptical.  Doesn't help that we're probably not going to get to watch a lot of snaps of his pre-draft.  I don't agree with Brugler, Joe Haeg and Billy Turner isn't really a strong NFL tradition at tackle, more like an average starter and a solid career back up tradition.  I think Trevor  Penning has a chance to be good, but the truth is pretty much none of the top FCS offensive linemen coming into the NFL the past decade have been that good, and pretty much all of the FCS guys who have made waves in the NFL have been skill position players and defenders.  I need to see an FCS OL hit big in the NFL before I can buy into the potential translation of other FCS OLs, because right now it feels like you get much more of a ceiling off of drafting and stashing a former rugby player like Jordan Mailata than you do with FCS guys.

 

I haven't studied him yet but I notice some project him to guard. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I haven't studied him yet but I notice some project him to guard. 

 

I really like the way he paced his steps and his feet when getting into space, lets him connect well with defenders at the 2nd level. One thing our OL noticeably lacks is the Guards connecting with anybody at the 2nd level. Screens, stretch runs, counters, etc aren't as functional right now.

 

If he does move to Guard, he becomes pretty interesting.

[Koolblue13]

Who are looking like the top centers? Would love to get a great one for our future and we should be picking close to where the top one, if there is a standout, usually goes.

[KillBill26]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10057267-penn-state-cb-joey-porter-jr-declares-2023-nfl-draft-will-skip-bowl-game.amp.html

 

Joey Porter Jr, CB from Penn St, declared for draft.   Could be a first round target for us.

On 11/29/2022 at 11:43 AM, Zim489 said:

Small. Small arm. 

Bennett is also older, he is already 25.  Doubt he makes it deep into August if he even gets that far.  USFL here he comes.

 

[Ball Security]

Jalen Kitna comes off of anyone’s 2025 board.  Whew boy. 🤢

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Who are looking like the top centers? Would love to get a great one for our future and we should be picking close to where the top one, if there is a standout, usually goes.