2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Dotson though didn't get much love here, I recall joking to you if we are the only ones here who liked him.   I know @KDawg liked him too, and one other. 

I think it ultimately ends up because he'll just be a solid contributor. While most people are always happy about getting those I think its a let down with your first rounder. Especially when its looking like theres a good possibility that every single WR drafted around him might be better. Take in the group of 4 in front of him and a handful behind him like Watson Pierce Pickens. Maybe Burks too who was looking really good before getting hurt. Theres a non small chance that he ends up being the worst of the entire group. So while "Yay we got a good player" is nice theres a good chance of buyers remorse. 

 

Yes intangibles are great and Dotson seems to have those in spades theres almost zero concern for any of the group I listed for them being bad eggs in a batch. Maybe pickens but hes probably just a weirdo that doesnt cause any harm. Ultimately skill has to shine through and if youre main selling point is Intangibles I think thats more of a negative than a positive. 

 

Intangibles IMO dont take you from good to great. It can take you from average to good but not that next step.  Bad intangibles take you from Great to average or worse.  

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think it ultimately ends up because he'll just be a solid contributor. While most people are always happy about getting those I think its a let down with your first rounder. Especially when its looking like theres a good possibility that every single WR drafted around him might be better. Take in the group of 4 in front of him and a handful behind him like Watson Pierce Pickens. Maybe Burks too who was looking really good before getting hurt. Theres a non small chance that he ends up being the worst of the entire group. So while "Yay we got a good player" is nice theres a good chance of buyers remorse. 

 

Yes intangibles are great and Dotson seems to have those in spades theres almost zero concern for any of the group I listed for them being bad eggs in a batch. Maybe pickens but hes probably just a weirdo that doesnt cause any harm. Ultimately skill has to shine through and if youre main selling point is Intangibles I think thats more of a negative than a positive. 

 

Intangibles IMO dont take you from good to great. It can take you from average to good but not that next step.  Bad intangibles take you from Great to average or worse.  

You grade draft classes entirely too early. You may wind up right on Dotson vs. the others. But Dotson being injured means his numbers are going to be worse than receivers who have been playing and prominent. 
 

It’s just so early to call it here.

[Zim489]

Just now, KDawg said:

You grade draft classes entirely too early. You may wind up right on Dotson vs. the others. But Dotson being injured means his numbers are going to be worse than receivers who have been playing and prominent. 
 

It’s just so early to call it here.

Yeah im def not calling it yet. But the ceiling was my cause for concern as a prospect. I agree with what @Going Commando was saying about theres a Dotson in every draft. He doesnt feel like a big outlier that screams we need to get this guy this year. 

[Zim489]

7 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

My God it’s going to be painful watching the Eagles turn a top 5 pick into a haul of high value picks from a desperate team in this draft. Or get the stud player in the draft fall to them when several other teams reach at QB. Damn.

Its going to be brutal man... I think they are going to gouge some one for levis or strong. Thankfully there isnt some one in the 12-18 range that needs a QB. 

 

One tank bowl in 2020 has set up their entire dynasty. Its why I love their FO. They didnt care about winning one meaningless game. 

[Ball Security]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I liked Drake London, G. Wilson, Olave a lot and more so than Dotson -- especially London.  I was also one of the higher guys on Watson here. I especially liked Alec Pierce and W. Robinson among the 2nd tier guys.   There were a lot of good Wrs in this mix.  

 

Dotson though didn't get much love here, I recall joking to you if we are the only ones here who liked him.   I know @KDawg liked him too, and one other. 

 

I was one of the rare people on this draft thread high on Terry McLaurin before that draft.  Some hated on the Terry pick at the time, I spent more time defending that pick lol than any pick that I can recall.   Part of why I liked him was his intangibles were special.  I don't think every player has some inherent Rocky like drive to be great with the same level of maturity.  You talked about Terry's physicality but that wasn't what he was known for in college aside from his run blocking and special teams work.  Terry himself talked about having to work and turn that weakness into a strength and becoming a good contested catch player in the pros after that not being his thing in college.

 

I read about Dotson's intangibles but it came to life for me watching the Hey Rookie show from ESPN, seems like a special dude, well grounded, desire to be great.  As Doug Williams mentioned, the dude walks and talks like Terry as far as personality. And he stood out to me among the pack in that show.  I said so on this thread at the time.  Just as I said the same about Micah Parsons who was mostly crapped on this thread for having bad character -- as I said watching that show, Parsons doesn't come like a bad dude, and he seems driven as hell and the players in that show looked up to him as the clear Alpha male in that group.  Granted 5 episodes of watching a player prepare for the combine and interact with fellow players, family, etc -- isn't the be all and end all and could be misleading.  But the two players that really jumped out to me in the last two years was Parsons and ironically his close pal Dotson.

 

As far as a player, his magic weapon is his hands and IMO can get open including in tight space like in the red zone.  Cooley among others watching the receivers over the years believes he's special as a route runner and comes in and out of breaks very smoothly.  He's plenty fast enough albeit not elite speed.   He had a big camp, got off to a good start to the season and then got hurt.  Yeah the players who played the full season naturally have had a better season than the dude who played about half as much but that doesn't concern me. 

 

I think some of the lack of attention for Dotson was due to him being a reach at where we were originally picking and not being around in the second when we picked again.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I think some of the lack of attention for Dotson was due to him being a reach at where we were originally picking and not being around in the second when we picked again.

 

We spent plenty of time on non first round WRs last year, I know I did among others.

[CommanderInTheRye]

I wanted Watson BIG TIME. Said it early and often along with boss man SIP and a few others.

 

I think Jahon was a great find given where he was picked. I just think his skill set meshes better with a strong armed  QB like Wentz over true grit Heiney.

 

 

.

Edited December 13, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, CommanderInTheRye said:

I wanted Watson BIG TIME. Said it early and often along with bossnan SIP and a few others.

 

I think Jahon was a great find given where he was picked. I just think his skillet meshes better with a strong armed  QB like Wentz over true grit Heiney.

 

Freaky size-speed, Watson, had some drops but the dude could seperate vertically. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Freaky size-speed, Watson, had some drops but the dude could seperate vertically. 

 

 

Agreed.

 

BTW your quote permanently memorializes two since edited typing/autocorrect errors-- (skillet for skill set and bosnan for boss man) lol

Edited December 13, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I think it ultimately ends up because he'll just be a solid contributor. While most people are always happy about getting those I think its a let down with your first rounder. Especially when its looking like theres a good possibility that every single WR drafted around him might be better. Take in the group of 4 in front of him and a handful behind him like Watson Pierce Pickens. Maybe Burks too who was looking really good before getting hurt. Theres a non small chance that he ends up being the worst of the entire group. So while "Yay we got a good player" is nice theres a good chance of buyers remorse. 

 

Yes intangibles are great and Dotson seems to have those in spades theres almost zero concern for any of the group I listed for them being bad eggs in a batch. Maybe pickens but hes probably just a weirdo that doesnt cause any harm. Ultimately skill has to shine through and if youre main selling point is Intangibles I think thats more of a negative than a positive. 

 

Intangibles IMO dont take you from good to great. It can take you from average to good but not that next step.  Bad intangibles take you from Great to average or worse.  

 

Coming from a dude who wanted the WRs who are having good years and talked about it aplenty on the draft thread and in detail -- Dotson wasn't my first choice.   For my own takes on the draft, it actually mirrors very closely to how I felt about Jamin Davis the draft before -- I liked Jamin, he wasn't my first choice or 2nd or third for the spot they took him.  I think it was a little reach, not a major one but I was OK with it because I like the player even if he wasn't who i wanted.  Dotson identical but the reason why I like this better is the trade down.

 

I know from other posts you see a DT in the 2nd and RB in the third as a waste of early picks, ditto taking a Qb out of the first round.  But I don't.  Most non first round picks are outright busts.  I want BPA.  Roll the dice.  50% give or take if I recall of first rounders from about 15-32 are busts.   As Kiper liked to say if you get 3 major contributors in a draft, you've done well.  More picks flame out than succeed. 

 

Robinson was one of the three guys I touted wanting right before our third round pick came up -- I preferred Pierce but i do like Robinson.  I think Cole Turner has a shot.  I like Howell.  So for Dotson, i liked that chain of players that were part of that deal. 

 

I think Dotson has the skill set to be very good.  But will see.  It's early.  If I recall early this season you graded Rivera's draft and had Darrick Forrest as a miss.  He certainly doesn't look like a miss now.  You got to give a draft some time.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

DT in the 2nd

No issue with DTs in the second. My issue was with Mathis as the selection and what he represented. If we didnt draft Mathis this year I would be hoping and praying Siaka Ika from Baylor would be our pick in the second.

 

I think you have a lot of me misconstrued 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

No issue with DTs in the second. My issue was with Mathis as the selection and what he represented. If we didnt draft Mathis this year I would be hoping and praying Siaka Ika from Baylor would be our pick in the second.

 

I think you have a lot of me misconstrued 

 

Tough to forget you telling me how Ron was old school in a bad way and that you don't take a DT in the 2nd round.  I recall that crystal clear.  Maybe you were saying run stuffing DT?

 

I recall you also saying a third round for a RB is a mistake.  I saw you repeat the point on this thread.

 

You've said multiple times that taking a Qb outside of the first round is a waste especially in the 5th.

 

What else do i have wrong about your takes?

[Ball Security]

8 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

No issue with DTs in the second. My issue was with Mathis as the selection and what he represented. If we didnt draft Mathis this year I would be hoping and praying Siaka Ika from Baylor would be our pick in the second.

 

I think you have a lot of me misconstrued 

I will say passing on Mathis for the hope that you can get a guy a year later with a second rounder when, if things went right, you wouldn’t have a second round pick is quite the strategy.

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

No issue with DTs in the second. My issue was with Mathis as the selection and what he represented. If we didnt draft Mathis this year I would be hoping and praying Siaka Ika from Baylor would be our pick in the second.

 

I think you have a lot of me misconstrued 

What did he represent? A potential replacement for Payne at worst and in the best case scenario cheap depth who proved he can play at Alabama?

 

It’s tough to play the, “yeah but if we didn’t take him here we could have him here” game. Nothing says the stars align for that. 

[Going Commando]

I had two problems with the Phidarian Mathis pick:

 

1 - I thought we reached by a full round on him plain and simple.  I had him at 82 on my board and he was widely projected to be a third round pick, and even he was surprised to come off the board in the second round.

 

2 - I thought reaching on him was a desperation move fueled by a lack of interest/faith in signing Payne to an extension, or an effort to drive his cost down by weakening his negotiating position.  It hasn't worked and not only has Payne proven indispensable this year, he's gotten much more expensive.

 

I like Mathis, I just think we picked him a round too early, and I definitely think we should have had an extension with Daron done before the season started.

 

Really I wish we hadn't made the disastrous Carson Wentz trade and just rolled into the season with Heinicke, some cheap vet like Mayfield, and a rookie prospect as our options.  That's basically where we are at anyway, but instead we're out two third round picks and a ton of cap dollars.  If we don't make that trade, then I bet we get a Payne extension done on time and we have a draft class of something like:

Rd 1 - Dotson

Rd 2 - Mathis

Rd 3 - Dean

Rd 3 - Robinson

 

And in that situation, I'm not sweating a reach on Mathis.

[HigSkin]

They're going through McShays first mock on NFL Live and he has us drafting #21 and taking Kelee Ringo.  Meanwhile is also has 4 QBs going in the top 11 picks.

[Ball Security]

2 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

They're going through McShays first mock on NFL Live and he has us drafting #21 and taking Kelee Ringo.  Meanwhile is also has 4 QBs going in the top 11 picks.

Quite the run on CBs from 16-26.

[HigSkin]

13 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Quite the run on CBs from 16-26.

 

Yep they were discussing how college CBs are so much more NFL ready then in past.  McShay didnt think there was a Sauce or Stingly this year but plenty of talent there.

[FLSkinz83]

I don't see Ringo being a star.

 

I'm a bit iffy on Porter Jr.   I like Christian Gonzalez, Cam Smith and Clark Phillips better than Porter and Ringo.

[Koolblue13]

CB/DB is the one area this FO has shown to be pretty good at drafting later, so I doubt that corner is the pick in the first.

 

And unless some major talent makes it to our pick, I'm good with that. 

 

I'm guessing the pick will be IOL or LBer in the first if we stay where we're at. This FO will absolutely draft for need again.

[Panninho]

If Jaxon Smith-Njigba is there when we pick, boy that would be tough pass. WR ain't a need obviously but him working out of the slot alongside Dotson and Terry would be ridiculous. 

 

I also think there is no chance the Eagles pick a RB with a top 10 pick.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Panninho

[Rex Tomb]

20 minutes ago, Panninho said:

If Jaxon Smith-Njigba is there when we pick, boy that would be tough pass. WR ain't a need obviously but him working out of the slot alongside Dotson and Terry would be ridiculous. 

He seems big on tape.  Doesn't seem very quick though; I'd worry about separation at the next level.

[Koolblue13]

23 minutes ago, Panninho said:

If Jaxon Smith-Njigba is there when we pick, boy that would be tough pass. WR ain't a need obviously but him working out of the slot alongside Dotson and Terry would be ridiculous. 

 

I also think there is no chance the Eagles pick a RB with a top 10 pick.

They have almost no holes coming up next year, since they started drafting Cox and Kelce's replacements last year, so if they want to use a draft pick on luxury like that, they totally can.

 

I'd assume they'll trade out of 5 for another couple 1rsts though, to a QB hungry team.

 

and they'll still have another 1rst around 32.

[method man]

On the Dotson discussion, if he learns how to beat press more consistently, he’ll be unstoppable. All his peers in the first round are #1 receivers on their teams (except Jamo) and his QB is the worst passer of that bunch.

 

With a better QB and more of a passing attack, he can be Tyler Lockett

[Going Commando]

I like Clark Phillips's instincts and aggression the best of the corners but he's a fringe first round pick because of his size.  He'll get punked in man coverage on the outside in the NFL because he is short and has no length.  Fantastic instincts and ball skills though, he'll be a terror in zone, especially playing overhang.