2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

 

 

The Jacksonville Jaguars made what seemed to be a safe pick by taking steady linebacker Devin Lloyd at No. 27 in this year's draft.

While Lloyd was relatively old for a first-round prospect and is now 24, he showed plenty of versatility at Utah by defending the run and rushing the passer.

 

Those skills have not translated to the NFL level. Lloyd has been exposed by many of the Jaguars' opponents this year, and it's going to be tough for him to develop into the three-down linebacker he was projected to become if he doesn't show some significant improvement.

 

Lloyd's most glaring weaknesses are his inability to consistently tackle—he's missed a concerning 10.9 percent of his tackles this year—and poor coverage abilities. He's allowed 52 of the 66 passes thrown his way to be completed for 553 yards and four touchdowns.

 

Jacksonville attempted to hide Lloyd's inadequacies by reducing his playing time. He logged nearly every defensive snap during the first half of the season but saw less than a 40 percent snap share in Weeks 12 and 13.

While the team began relying on Lloyd again as an every-down defender starting in Week 14, he hasn't exactly warranted the workload increase. In the last two games, Lloyd missed three tackles while allowing 10 completions on 12 targets to go for 111 yards. He also gave up a passing touchdown in each of those contests.

 

Lloyd's pass-rushing attempts haven't borne any fruit either, as his 35 blitzes have only resulted in three pressures, two knockdowns and one hurry. He's yet to record a sack in the NFL.

With a PFF grade of only 47.4, Lloyd looks like he is on his way to becoming one of the bigger busts in this year's class.

Take the experts and the novices ALL with a grain of salt People! Doesnt mean he’ll suck forever but not a great start. 
 

[Going Commando]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

This **** is ruining CFB.  The sport needs significant reforms or else it's going down the path to significantly diminished popularity and irrelevance that college basketball has experienced since I was a kid.

 

They need to limit the sources of NIL income because this **** is corrupt as Hell, and then they need to end the transfer portal.  And then in addition to this, they need to limit the coaching carrousel.  Go back to having the players sit out a year to end player free agency, and make head coaches sit out a year (without pay) if they take another head coaching position somewhere else.  Make coaches feel some pain for ditching recruits and schools after signing contracts and get some of this ****ing booster money out of the sport.

 

College football is an entertainment industry whose value entirely hinges upon it's appeal of amateurism, school spirit, tradition, and most of all, broad competitiveness.  Having the sport be nothing more than a yearly competition of booster money for free agent coaches and players will ****ing ruin it.

 

Also if you don't like how difficult young QBs are to coach now, imagine how hard it will be when they don't need the NFL any money because they made 10-20 million dollars in college.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

 

The Jacksonville Jaguars made what seemed to be a safe pick by taking steady linebacker Devin Lloyd at No. 27 in this year's draft.

While Lloyd was relatively old for a first-round prospect and is now 24, he showed plenty of versatility at Utah by defending the run and rushing the passer.

 

Those skills have not translated to the NFL level. Lloyd has been exposed by many of the Jaguars' opponents this year, and it's going to be tough for him to develop into the three-down linebacker he was projected to become if he doesn't show some significant improvement.

 

Lloyd's most glaring weaknesses are his inability to consistently tackle—he's missed a concerning 10.9 percent of his tackles this year—and poor coverage abilities. He's allowed 52 of the 66 passes thrown his way to be completed for 553 yards and four touchdowns.

 

Jacksonville attempted to hide Lloyd's inadequacies by reducing his playing time. He logged nearly every defensive snap during the first half of the season but saw less than a 40 percent snap share in Weeks 12 and 13.

While the team began relying on Lloyd again as an every-down defender starting in Week 14, he hasn't exactly warranted the workload increase. In the last two games, Lloyd missed three tackles while allowing 10 completions on 12 targets to go for 111 yards. He also gave up a passing touchdown in each of those contests.

 

Lloyd's pass-rushing attempts haven't borne any fruit either, as his 35 blitzes have only resulted in three pressures, two knockdowns and one hurry. He's yet to record a sack in the NFL.

With a PFF grade of only 47.4, Lloyd looks like he is on his way to becoming one of the bigger busts in this year's class.

 

 

I know he's older but LB like TE is often a slow developing position in the pros.  See our own Jamin Davis.  Rivera talked about it in the context of T. Davis. 

 

As far as the take the experts and novices with a grain of salt.  Yeah part of what makes this thread fun is its not about regurgitating what Kiper or whomever thinks.  we will post it to read for entertainment value but plenty here put their own time and own stamp on their takes on players -- sometimes we nail it, sometimes we miss.  But its entertaining for me to read everyone's takes whether I agree with them or not and appreciate all the content from everyone.

 

The NFL season is short.  And this thread in my favorite one to kill time for a good chunk of the off season.  But as Parcells liked to say the best personnel guys get it right at most 50%.  And we are no professionals so of course we are all going to get some wrong.

 

But bringing this back to Lloyd, i haven't watched his season so I don't have a take on it.  But just in general its tough to write off a rookie after one year especially at LB. 

 

 

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@Skinsinparadise For Sure. I was just pointing out a generally accepted “safe” pick being the potentially being the biggest bust of the first round picks last year.  No Biggie. I understand this whole thing is far from an exact science. I appreciate all the info shared regardless. 

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

This **** is ruining CFB.  The sport needs significant reforms or else it's going down the path to significantly diminished popularity and irrelevance that college basketball has experienced since I was a kid.

 

They need to limit the sources of NIL income because this **** is corrupt as Hell, and then they need to end the transfer portal.  And then in addition to this, they need to limit the coaching carrousel.  Go back to having the players sit out a year to end player free agency, and make head coaches sit out a year (without pay) if they take another head coaching position somewhere else.  Make coaches feel some pain for ditching recruits and schools after signing contracts and get some of this ****ing booster money out of the sport.

 

College football is an entertainment industry whose value entirely hinges upon it's appeal of amateurism, school spirit, tradition, and most of all, broad competitiveness.  Having the sport be nothing more than a yearly competition of booster money for free agent coaches and players will ****ing ruin it.

 

Also if you don't like how difficult young QBs are to coach now, imagine how hard it will be when they don't need the NFL any money because they made 10-20 million dollars in college.

I agree. But honestly it’s just exposing what college football has been for years. The difference was the large sums of cash changing hands was behind the scenes and not up front. The transfer portal is a double edged sword, too. Yes, the fact players can transfer at will pulls talent off of lower end programs and feeds the higher end programs. But the guys on those higher end squads who aren’t playing also want out and transfer so they can get a chance to play. 
 

I don’t love it. But college football has been this for years. They just couldn’t talk about it.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@Skinsinparadise For Sure. I was just pointing out a generally accepted “safe” pick being the potentially being the biggest bust of the first round picks last year.  No Biggie. I understand this whole thing is far from an exact science. I appreciate all the info shared regardless. 

 

Sure, anyone can bust.  I don't know if I felt that the buzz was Lloyd was the ultimate safe pick by the draft media types but agree on the safe side.  The dude that was touted a lot as an uber safe pick was Kyle Hamilton.

 

Michael Mayer seen also safe right now.  But for me personally, them saying he's safe doesn't move the needle at all but if it feeds my confirmation bias I'll mention it.  I feel more comfortable if I like a prospect and a whole bunch of other people like the same player, too.  But plenty of times I am not as high on some players as the draft media so to speak or higher on a player than they are.  I know its the same for some other people on this thread.   

Edited December 23, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

I agree. But honestly it’s just exposing what college football has been for years. The difference was the large sums of cash changing hands was behind the scenes and not up front. The transfer portal is a double edged sword, too. Yes, the fact players can transfer at will pulls talent off of lower end programs and feeds the higher end programs. But the guys on those higher end squads who aren’t playing also want out and transfer so they can get a chance to play. 
 

I don’t love it. But college football has been this for years. They just couldn’t talk about it.

 

I think it's worse now than it ever has been before thanks to the transfer portal.  What Narduzzi is saying happened with Drake Maye wouldn't even be legal in the NFL, it's clear cut tampering and it's corrupt.  But are there even rules against it at the college level?

 

Right now CFB is a feeding frenzy of corrupt booster money and the coaches are trying to sound the alarm on what's happening to the sport and how things are rapidly getting worse.  And IMO, we're not really hearing them.

[KDawg]

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

I think it's worse now than it ever has been before thanks to the transfer portal.  What Narduzzi is saying happened with Drake Maye wouldn't even be legal in the NFL, it's clear cut tampering and it's corrupt.  But are there even rules against it at the college level?

 

Right now CFB is a feeding frenzy of corrupt booster money and the coaches are trying to sound the alarm on what's happening to the sport and how things are rapidly getting worse.  And IMO, we're not really hearing them.

I hear them loud and clear. But the NCAA and major college athletics have been professional sports for years now. I’m just not shocked by literally any of it.

 

I’d like it fixed. Or have a salary cap/tampering rules firmly in place and enforced with NIL limitation punishments and scholarship reductions.

[Zim489]

 

Draft athletes 

[lavar1156]

Give me the best available OL. Drafting a TE in the 1st round would be a luxury given all the weapons we already have.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, lavar1156 said:

Give me the best available OL. Drafting a TE in the 1st round would be a luxury given all the weapons we already have.

 

Depends on what O lineman to me is available. 

 

Drafting an elite level blocking TE who is also a weapon in the passing game is not IMO a "luxury" for a team that plays heavy 12-13 personnel.   Even Joe Gibbs version 1 liked to use a Y TE to supplement both the pass blocking and run blocking. 

 

IMO you don't look at a Y TE like Mayer like an F TE like Jordan Reed who is a glorifed receiver.  

 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

 

Draft athletes 

 

I recall the 2021 draft this team drafted a large number of high RAS guys.

 

It brings me back to the Ryan Anderson pick.

 

Washington fans hated Jon Ledyard for making the case on twitter that the odds that Ryan will be good is almost nill.

 

A.  Bad speed

B.  Really bad agility

C.  Short arms

 

The comibination he thought spells a meh career.  And he was right.  I recall Anderson himself flipped out on him on twitter saying he's not a combine dude.

 

I am not obsessed with RAS but I do like to factor it in the soup, when I post stats of players here post combine I almost always throw the RAS numbers albiet as we know just being a great athlete isn't enough.  But if you got other things cooking for you -- elite athleticism is obviously something that helps.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

RAS is a tool but I really feel like the game is just getting more and more physical. They matter more it seems every single year. 

 

Went through the 2021 All Pro list RAS Scores and just wow...

9.54

9.26

9.46

6.54

5.00

7.91

7.28

9.29

9.64

9.71

9.72

9.64

9.5

9.08

9.74

9.92

9.99

9.66

8.42

9.59

4.9

6.22

9.82

7.91

5.32

9.34

 

Didnt do QBs but that position is getting more athletic as well. Outside of a few outliers it really says a lot.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I don't like how RAS has no penalty or asterisk to show players skip drills that would probably hurt their stock.

 

Devin Lloyd skipped the agility drills, and he's not the smoothest mover while flipping hips on the field. Yet because of that his RAS is over 9.

 

I'm not sure why Jamin Davis skipped agility drills either as his hips look more fluid, but his RAS was almost 10.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Rex Tomb]

I’m guessing Voorhees is gone before our pick given that he’s super versatile and good at both run and pass blocking.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

I’m guessing Voorhees is gone before our pick given that he’s super versatile and good at both run and pass blocking.

 

combine has more influence on the O line than most postions so I think will see some risers-fallers.  Based on most of today's mocks, he should be there with the 2nd round pick.

 

Torrence looks right now as the top guard, depending on the mock, he's late first, early 2nd.  I watched Torrence and talked about him on and off, he looks like a great pass blocker, good run blocker.

 

But will see as we get closer

Edited December 23, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[mh86]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Depends on what O lineman to me is available. 

 

Drafting an elite level blocking TE who is also a weapon in the passing game is not IMO a "luxury" for a team that plays heavy 12-13 personnel.   Even Joe Gibbs version 1 liked to use a Y TE to supplement both the pass blocking and run blocking. 

 

IMO you don't look at a Y TE like Mayer like an F TE like Jordan Reed who is a glorifed receiver.  

 

 

Having bates and Mayer would give us a ton of options. I’d do it in a heartbeat if he were there for our pick.

[KDawg]

I’m lukewarm on picking Meyer. Love the player. Don’t like the pick for us. But of course, that changes based on what’s on the board so the draft may come and I may love a Meyer pick up. 

[Koolblue13]

Mayer is an Eagles pick.

[CommanderDOOM]

2 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

I’m guessing Voorhees is gone before our pick...

 

Around 13

[Forehead]

We need to do that thing, maybe from a year or two ago, where a poster identifies their college team, then posts one player you want, and one player you don't.  That was a ton of fun.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Forehead said:

We need to do that thing, maybe from a year or two ago, where a poster identifies their college team, then posts one player you want, and one player you don't.  That was a ton of fun.

Well, my team is easy. Miami Hurricanes…

 

Want: None.

 

Don’t Want: Yes.

[Forehead]

For me as Penn State guy, the guy I'd love, and it is a position of need, is Joey Porter Jr.  I'm not sure if he'll drop quite to wherever we wind up in the draft but he's a likely 1st round pick, probably between 10-20.  Arguably the top corner in the draft.  He's big, something like 6'1" and around 200 pounds.  He is not afraid of contact and hits like a truck for his size and position.  He has a mean streak, which considering he's the son of former Steeler stud Joey Porter, isn't a surprise.  He's also battle tested, he's held up against the string of receivers Ohio State trots out.  

 

Potential negatives...very few interceptions.  He has a lot of passes defensed but doesn't come down with the ball much.  Wasn't tested much this season as other teams went after our other CBs much more.  His mean/aggressive streak bites him sometimes, he gets flagged for PI a bit much and I'm pretty sure he led the team in personal foul penalties. He started off Penn State's game against Michigan by body-slamming one of Michigan's players on the first play, which drew a 15 yarder and pissed them off.  The rest of the game was ugly.  So some of that needs to be controlled, but between his skill and pedigree, I'd bet on him being a success at the NFL level.

 

Do Not Want: Parker Washington.  Nice kid, he is going to get over-drafted because he went off against Ohio State to the tune of 11-179-1.  Penn State has a good running game and uses their TE's a lot so he doesn't have eye-popping stats, season or career.  The only thing he really has going for him are good hands.  He's pretty undersized so his only real future would be in the slot, except he doesn't have good top end speed or quick twitch moves.  I see him being taken anywhere between the 3rd and 6th but have a hard time imagining him being much more than a returner/special teams guy, which don't require day two picks to obtain.

 

Not sure who else may declare at this point.  Everyone who is out of eligibility (including Covid year) is not worth even talking about, they stayed six years for a reason.  I'm not sure who else is declaring but there's a kid who is a RS-Jr who might, who has played all three interior OL positions well.  I'd be good with him on Day 3, but my two highlights are the ones above.