2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Zim489]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

This draft feels absolutely loaded with center prospects. This Tippman guy seems to have athleticism that the bigger center prospects like Schmitz and Avila don’t have.

 

I think the play is to bring Roullier back one more year (his net cost for keeping vs cutting is < $3M). One of these bigger guys can learn the center position and compete for one of the starting G spots in year 1 with Paul and a vet like Norwell.

 

The other key move on OL has to be to find a starting RT to move Cosmi inside. If they keep the first and don’t use it on a QB and don’t find an RT answer in FA, that would be the pick I’d make

Center is def one of the deepest and best positions in the draft. Pick one in the second round and Im happy. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

33 minutes ago, method man said:

I think the play is to bring Roullier back one more year (his net cost for keeping vs cutting is < $3M). 

The savings in 2023 would be 7.7 for cutting him. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Rufus T Firefly

[Est.1974]

Roullier should be gone on his current deal. Hopefully he takes a salary cut to stick around. If the draft is considered deep at that position, got to think you get great value in the mid rounds.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Warhead36]

I liked what I saw from Armani Rogers earlier and Cole Turner is supposed to have some upside. I'd like to upgrade TE too but we might have some candidates in house.

 

Logan Thomas is washed though.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I liked what I saw from Armani Rogers earlier and Cole Turner is supposed to have some upside. I'd like to upgrade TE too but we might have some candidates in house.

 

Logan Thomas is washed though.

 

Armani and Cole has potential, and I'll grant that the TE is a slower developing position but i am not banking on it.

 

 

My main interest in a TE is I don't forsee they solve their QB situation and they will major in 2-3 TE sets some more to run the ball.  If so, adding one of the best Y-TEs to come out in the draft in years is tailor made.   Plus adding great players is the name of the game -- PBA not need. 

 

https://www.si.com/college/notredame/football/notre-dame-football-replace-and-reload-michael-mayer-will-be-hard-to-replace

Notre Dame lost one of the program's best ever players when junior Michael Mayer announced his decision to leave for the NFL Draft. This was an expected move for Mayer, who has been college football's best tight ends the last two seasons.

Notre Dame now has to go through the monumental task of replacing Mayer. The Irish program has gotten used to replacing big time tight ends over the years, but not since Tyler Eifert left following the 2012 season has the program had to replace a player this good, and this productive.

The Irish return a talented group of pass catchers, but there isn't one player that will be tasked with replacing Mayer. The reason is simple, there isn't one player on the roster, and perhaps in all of college football, that can single handedly replace Mayer.

Notre Dame will need to get the offense to make a big jump next season without its best player. It won't be easy, but that's the task for the Irish.

WHAT WAS LOST

Notre Dame loses a lot with Mayer, and it goes beyond his production, but the conversation has to begin with the production.

Mayer was without question Notre Dame's top receiving option in 2022, and at times it looked as though he was the only option. The Kentucky native finished the season with 67 catches for 809 yards and nine touchdowns. Those nine touchdowns are a program record for a tight end, and the catches and yards marks are second all-time for a season single, behind only Mayer's 71 catches and 840 yards from a season ago.

He ended his career as Notre Dame's all-time tight end leader with 180 catches for 2,099 yards and 18 touchdowns. 

Mayer improved his blocking in 2022, which also must be replaced.

Beyond the on-field production, Mayer was a team captain and a tremendous leader for the Irish last season. I've heard impressive stories about how he encouraged and challenged younger players, and his tremendous work ethic is well known.

 

[Koolblue13]

Bates I'm a bit disappointed in, but his blocking is top notch. As much as I'd love to invest in a TE. Hell, I wanted to trade a first for OJ Howard.

 

We have an elite top 3 WRs and 3 RBs who can clearly excess at pass catching.

 

IOL, LBer and CB are such huge needs though. 

 

Look what happened when Roullier went down. I mean QB and Center are the top two positions to address, not a TE.

[method man]

3 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Center is def one of the deepest and best positions in the draft. Pick one in the second round and Im happy. 

Given the depth, they could probably wait until the comp pick if they want. Because of the power scheme they run, they are limited regarding the types of centers they can get. It likely has to be these 320ish pound guys

[Ball Security]

Oluwatimi from Michigan via UVA could be an option in the third/fourth.

[Skinsinparadise]

The Minkah Fitzpatrick of this draft

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Bates I'm a bit disappointed in, but his blocking is top notch. As much as I'd love to invest in a TE. Hell, I wanted to trade a first for OJ Howard.

 

We have an elite top 3 WRs and 3 RBs who can clearly excess at pass catching.

 

IOL, LBer and CB are such huge needs though. 

 

Look what happened when Roullier went down. I mean QB and Center are the top two positions to address, not a TE.

 

You can upgrade both TE and O line.  But my main point and main reason why I am stressing a Y TE versus an F-TE is the Y-TE is an extension of your blocking scheme.  Doc Walker for example is considered a Hog for a reason.

 

The Ravens which prides itself on its O line play, smash mouth style and running game -- run multiple TE sets and like to collect TEs who can block. 

 

A 265 pound Y-TE is closer to the theme of the O line IMO and Marty Ball style of play versus looking at it as another sub 200 pound WR.   

Edited December 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The Minkah Fitzpatrick of this draft

 

 

 

 

You can upgrade both TE and O line.  But my main point and main reason why I am stressing a Y TE versus an F-TE is the Y-TE is an extension of your blocking scheme.  Doc Walker for example is considered a Hog for a reason.

 

The Ravens which prides itself on its O line play, smash mouth style and running game -- run multiple TE sets and like to collect TEs who can block. 

 

A Y-TE is closer to the theme of the O line IMO and Mrty Ball style of play versus looking at it as another WR.   

I feel like we've spent the last 10 years arguing about this the other way. I always want the TE early and you're always turning me on t picks later in the draft. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I feel like we've spent the last 10 years arguing about this the other way. I always want the TE early and you're always turning me on t picks later in the draft. 

 

I'll sum it up for me like this.

 

 I am a BPA guy.  But I am a BPA on steroids if I am picking in the late teens-20s.  The bust rate is about 50% in that range.   If the Kyle Hamilton of the TE spot falls to our pick and he's the BPA, I am taking him.

 

I haven't studied many of the prospects yet.  But for now, I do like Torrence a lot at guard, I studied him.  And Mayer I studied accidently over the years from studying Tremble and Kmet.

 

The PFF guy who is a Commanders fan swears that Leno has been solid this year, with last week being his worst game and isn't the weak link on the O line.  I have to go back and watch and make up my own mind.  But for now I am more fixated on fixing the interior O line than I am the tackle spot.    And typically you can get top guards and centers in the 2nd-4th round range.  Plus FA typically has interior O line opportunities.  i haven't really dived deep but maybe Ben Powers?

 

If the top BPA is an O lineman take him.  But no way if Mayer is tops on the board I am passing on him because he plays TE.  And to me a Y-TE actually helps with pass protection-run blocking.  

 

 

 

[method man]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

Oluwatimi from Michigan via UVA could be an option in the third/fourth.

He should be a Day 1 starter for the team that drafts him given all the experience he has and his football IQ but his athletic and length limitations probably cap his upside to average starter. Not totally sure he is a schematic fit here either

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll sum it up for me like this.

 

 I am a BPA guy.  But I am a BPA on steroids if I am picking in the late teens-20s.  The bust rate is about 50% in that range.   If the Kyle Hamilton of the TE spot falls to our pick and he's the BPA, I am taking him.

 

I haven't studied many of the prospects yet.  But for now, I do like Torrence a lot at guard, I studied him.  And Mayer I studied accidently over the years from studying Tremble and Kmet.

 

The PFF guy who is a Commanders fan swears that Leno has been solid this year, with last week being his worst game and isn't the weak link on the O line.  I have to go back and watch and make up my own mind.  But for now I am more fixated on fixing the interior O line than I am the tackle spot.    And typically you can get top guards and centers in the 2nd-4th round range.  Plus FA typically has interior O line opportunities.  i haven't really dived deep but maybe Ben Powers?

 

If the top BPA is an O lineman take him.  But no way if Mayer is tops on the board I am passing on him because he plays TE.  And to me a Y-TE actually helps with pass protection-run blocking.  

 

 

 

I don't know why Leno gats bashed either. I like him. If Paul and Cosmi can grow into that right side, that just means we need a G and C. I'm all for a heavy investment in Oline this draft and FA.

 

I'm not devaluing the YTE at all eithr.

[method man]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll sum it up for me like this.

 

 I am a BPA guy.  But I am a BPA on steroids if I am picking in the late teens-20s.  The bust rate is about 50% in that range.   If the Kyle Hamilton of the TE spot falls to our pick and he's the BPA, I am taking him.

 

I haven't studied many of the prospects yet.  But for now, I do like Torrence a lot at guard, I studied him.  And Mayer I studied accidently over the years from studying Tremble and Kmet.

 

The PFF guy who is a Commanders fan swears that Leno has been solid this year, with last week being his worst game and isn't the weak link on the O line.  I have to go back and watch and make up my own mind.  But for now I am more fixated on fixing the interior O line than I am the tackle spot.    And typically you can get top guards and centers in the 2nd-4th round range.  Plus FA typically has interior O line opportunities.  i haven't really dived deep but maybe Ben Powers?

 

If the top BPA is an O lineman take him.  But no way if Mayer is tops on the board I am passing on him because he plays TE.  And to me a Y-TE actually helps with pass protection-run blocking.  

 

 

 

I think a lot of folks see the “chess move” fix to repairing the interior OL is to find a RT to allow Cosmi to move inside, where he has a chance to be an elite player at guard. We do have three OL positions to fill and a center draft pick + a RT draft pick solve for two of them. 
 

You are likely not going to solve all three in one offseason so I’m fine with letting Paul and the drafted center (if he is a bigger guy) compete with Norwell in camp.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I don't know why Leno gats bashed either. I like him. If Paul and Cosmi can grow into that right side, that just means we need a G and C. I'm all for a heavy investment in Oline this draft and FA.

 

I'm not devaluing the YTE at all eithr.

 

Brian Branch and Michael Mayer scream the exact type of players you love.  

 

I've been right behind you pushing TE and safety.  I think safety for a change is fine.  But TE still a need.

 

 

 

 

Just now, method man said:

I think a lot of folks see the “chess move” fix to repairing the interior OL is to find a RT to allow Cosmi to move inside, where he has a chance to be an elite player at guard. We do have three OL positions to fill and a center draft pick + a RT draft pick solve for two of them. 
 

You are likely not going to solve all three in one offseason so I’m fine with letting Paul and the drafted center (if he is a bigger guy) compete with Norwell in camp.

 

I've thought of that and I am OK with moving him to guard but I don't want to force a pick.  For example, RT Anton Harrison who is seen by mock drafters as a fringe first rounder, I haven't studied him yet but if I agree that he's a fringe first rounder, I am not taking him over Mayer.   

 

But again, my opinions will evolve over time like always.  I haven't really studied guys yet, I am just paying attention to who is touted.  But when the season is over, I always dive in. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[shemp nixon]

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I don't know why Leno gats bashed either. I like him. If Paul and Cosmi can grow into that right side, that just means we need a G and C. I'm all for a heavy investment in Oline this draft and FA.

 

I'm not devaluing the YTE at all eithr.

I like the idea of going LT in the first round. Kick Leno over to RT, and move Cosmi inside with Paul. Grab a C in round 2.

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, shemp nixon said:

I like the idea of going LT in the first round. Kick Leno over to RT, and move Cosmi inside with Paul. Grab a C in round 2.

Does Leno have a lot of success at RT?

 

Paul is a RT I believe.

[Zim489]

7 hours ago, shemp nixon said:

I like the idea of going LT in the first round. Kick Leno over to RT, and move Cosmi inside with Paul. Grab a C in round 2.

Unfortunately LT is one of the weakest in years. The best option might not even measure out to a Tackle in the end. 

[Koolblue13]

20 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Unfortunately LT is one of the weakest in years. The best option might not even measure out to a Tackle in the end. 

This has already been corrected, but that's just your opinion. There isn't any top 10 elite types (precombine), but there are tackles in this draft. It's not an awful year.

[Zim489]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

This has already been corrected, but that's just your opinion. There isn't any top 10 elite types (precombine), but there are tackles in this draft. It's not an awful year.

Its still the worst class in years. Theres some guys but my statement still stands. 

[Warhead36]

Leno is a fine LT but he's nothing special. Against the really good Edge guys he's gonna need help and our division has a whole bunch of them. If there is an opportunity to upgrade you take it, but the interior is a bigger priority, especially C. I think Roullier is done at this point with back to back seasons ended by injury and his cap # is quite high. 

[Koolblue13]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Leno is a fine LT but he's nothing special. Against the really good Edge guys he's gonna need help and our division has a whole bunch of them. If there is an opportunity to upgrade you take it, but the interior is a bigger priority, especially C. I think Roullier is done at this point with back to back seasons ended by injury and his cap # is quite high. 

That along with his cap hit vs release price makes it hard to not address the position. 

 

I would be completely happy if we drafted a large Center/ who can play G on day one or two AND brought back Chase. I think that would be best. He was a top 5 center and that addresses a couple situations. 

 

But I understand releasing him as well.

[Going Commando]

There are only two players in this OT class that I've liked so far.  The class has no depth and if we miss out on Skoronski or PJJr, then I highly doubt we're getting a rookie starter.  Cosmi would pretty easily be the #3 OT in this class I think, and he was a rough prospect.  I don't think we're getting an upgrade over him unless we can snag one of those top two.

 

We need a better athlete at LT than Leno.  He gets smoked by dominant athletes and has basically given up game-losing plays.  We have zero margin for error with him and he's just not good enough to be the anchor of a high end line IMO.