Welcome to the Washington Commanders Phidarian Mathis DT Alabama

[CommanderInTheRye]

9 mother loving sacks from the defensive tackle slot against the big nasty behomeths of the SEC is worthy of day 2 consideration on general principle alone.

 

Now they tell me that his pass rush is the WEAKNESS of his game??!? 

 

Sign me up for  a front seat spot on the Mathis bandwagon right here and right now!

 

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Edited May 1, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[shemp nixon]

2 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

Just an impartial observer, chronicling the phsychology of battered fan syndrome.

 

Its gone from being almost unanimously viewed as a reach to an exciting pick in 2 days.

 

He may turn out to be a fine player but it’s a big reach by all accounts.

If they drafted him where they had him rated and he turns out to be a fine player he was not a reach.

[86 Snyder]

I’m so old I remember when Ryan Anderson had 8.5 sacks in his senior year.  This is pretty much exactly the same thing all over again.

[CommanderCarson]

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Because everything we do is complete **** all the time.  Since Snyder owns the team, no good decision can actually be made. It’s physically impossible.  Everything is bad.  Every pick is bad. 
 

And it’s better to trust a bunch of media pundits who rank players and then evaluate teams based on how close they came to their rankings than to let things play out and see what happens.  
 

The cycle of negativity around this team and it’s coverage is absolutely shocking.

And all it does is trickle into the locker room and effect the 53 guys and coaching staff that have NOTHING to do with poor Snyder teams from 15 years ago. 
 

Ron’s job is to roll a boulder up a mountain. It’s hard to create a positive and motivating environment when you walk out to boos in your own stadium. And the worst part about it is that people actually think that helps. That if they aren’t supporting Snyder they are helping the cause. Unless Snyder is ousted which I just can’t see, it just hurts what the team is trying to accomplish. I am praying praying praying they find a way to win at least 10+ games this year. They have the horses to do it.

2 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

I’m so old I remember when Ryan Anderson had 8.5 sacks in his senior year.  This is pretty much exactly the same thing all over again.

Ryan Anderson played a position that requires far more bend and burst to succeed. And he actually had less sacks his final year than the big lumbering dude we are all crapping on. From the DT spot. Not a good comparison, Anderson made me queasy from the start he would be just a guy. Don’t get those vibes from this pick. I get more pre Jarvis Jenkins injuries vibes.

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

I’m so old I remember when Ryan Anderson had 8.5 sacks in his senior year.  This is pretty much exactly the same thing all over again.

Anderson didn’t fit our scheme.

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I was a huge Tomlinson guy. Still am really. Zero pass rush. Awesome DT.

 

 

 

I studied our backs one off season and watched 2 games versus the Giants and from what I saw Tomlinson was an animal against the run, actually better than Allen and Payne on that front, he doesn't shoot the gap better than Allen/Payne but as a run stopper he was immovable.   4 sacks last year and 4 the year before -- and 70 plus pass rush grades so he's evolving some as a pass rusher, he's not killer on that front but solid. 

 

Jarren Reed who was supposed to be a pure run stopper, has 25 career sacks, and had 10.5 one season.

 

59 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Allen wasn't really looked at as much of a pass rusher two years ago and he blew up.

 

Allen has now had two really good sack years and the one year where he didn't the season before but he was rated highly by PFF as to pressure rates, etc.

 

59 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

We have majorly respected lines on this team and despite having Payne for the rest of 22 at least and them to go draft a DT from their brotherhood makes me think something good is up there. I seriously doubt they really dangled Payne for a trade and if they did, they we not getting low balled at all.

 

 

the impression I got is they put out feelers about what they'd get if they moved Payne but that's all.  I personally do buy they weren't offered more than the comp pick or even less than that.

 

But the reason being isn't that Payne isn't a good player but teams have become so stingy with draft picks unless its used for a star or QB or they are desperate.  The reason being is money.  Draft picks = cheap talent.  It's not that Payne isn't better than the standard 3rd round pick.  It's that he's about to get paid.  So do you want a cheap talent or pay the price of both losing out on getting a cheap player in the draft and also get hit with 15 million or whatever it would take to take on Payne's new contract.

 

Typically when some people argue back with me on this point they center on the idea of money is irrelevant to the trade and instead just look at it straight -- Payne versus a 3rd round pick.   As if the cheapness of both the draft and the big expense of the player are irrelevant to the trade.  The thing is the money aspect is the central plot let alone irrelevant to the how teams value trades.  And its not like its my pet theory pulled out of the sky -- this is born from observing the trade market and listening to ex-agents and ex-GMs talk about this.

 

What's my point?  I would bring back Payne and roll the dice.  Sacks do matter as for price tag of players whether it should be or not for the D line.  And Payne has been OK on that front but he hasn't had that breakthough season on that front.  So either he has a big season and explodes or has that usual season where he has 3-5 sacks.  

 

If I recall Standig is skeptical that he'd fetch more than a 4th round comp pick because of his lack of sack production.  If so I get the logic of letting Payne hit the market and he might not get what he or his agent expects.  DTs who aren't big sack guys don't get big money typically in FA.   Tomilinson for example got 10 million a year and only 16 million guaranteed. 

 

I seriously doubt Payne gets a contract similar to Allen on the open market unless he has a breakout season pass rush wise.  Personally I am skeptical he does.  Don't get me wrong, i love him against the run and that he brings some pass rush too ala Tomlinson but I genuinely don't think he has Allen's saviness to become his level of a pass rusher.  But will see.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Forever A Redskin]

Don't teams like the Ravens get praised all the time for drafting at positions of strength prior to their starters departure... Creating a pipeline of talent while simultaneously recouping compensatory draft picks every year?

 

We drafted like smart teams do. Smart teams don't follow Mel Kipers/McShays top 100 board. They follow their own. Grading a pick because some random online mock drafter had them available later in a fake draft is silly. 

 

Phidarian wouldn't have been available in the third. I initially wanted him in the 3rd as well... But that wasn't reality. There weren't a lot of good 1-techs this draft and we got arguably the best one.

 

Mock drafters got this draft wrong worse than any other year. Look at where Nakobe Dean went. Look at the run on Wide Receivers. Look at us getting Howell in the 5th.

 

We came out of the draft with very few holes. I wish we could have gotten a Mike and Buffalo but you can't win them all. Keeping my fingers crossed for Landon to return and a solid vet LB to be cut.

 

We nailed this draft.

 

If we didn't trade for Wentz and took Howell in the first or 2nd and still got the players we did people would be praising us.

 

The way I see it:

 

1. We got insurance for Wentz not being the long term solution at QB. Howell could be the real deal in a couple years.

2. Got the #1 1-tech DT

3. Got the #1 power back

4. Got the #1 FS

5. Got a red zone threat for Wentz after missing on Drake London.

[KDawg]

Just now, Forever A Redskin said:

Don't teams like the Ravens get praised all the time for drafting at positions of strength prior to their starters departure... Creating a pipeline of talent while simultaneously recouping compensatory draft picks every year?

 

We drafted like smart teams do. Smart teams don't follow Mel Kipers/McShays top 100 board. They follow their own. Grading a pick because some random online mock drafter had them available later in a fake draft is silly. 

 

Phidarian wouldn't have been available in the third. I initially wanted him in the 3rd as well... But that wasn't reality. There weren't a lot of good 1-techs this draft and we got arguably the best one.

 

Mock drafters got this draft wrong worse than any other year. Look at where Nakobe Dean went. Look at the run on Wide Receivers. Look at us getting Howell in the 5th.

 

We came out of the draft with very few holes. I wish we could have gotten a Mike and Buffalo but you can't win them all. Keeping my fingers crossed for Landon to return and a solid vet LB to be cut.

 

We nailed this draft.

 

If we didn't trade for Wentz and took Howell in the first or 2nd and still got the players we did people would be praising us.

 

The way I see it:

 

1. We got insurance for Wentz not being the long term solution at QB. Howell could be the real deal in a couple years.

2. Got the #1 1-tech DT

3. Got the #1 power back

4. Got the #1 FS

5. Got a red zone threat for Wentz after missing on Drake London.

I was pretty close to you for awhile there. I think we got the #2 1-tech but eh, we can call that a wash.

 

#1 FS is hyperbole, right?

[Forever A Redskin]

Just now, KDawg said:

I was pretty close to you for awhile there. I think we got the #2 1-tech but eh, we can call that a wash.

 

#1 FS is hyperbole, right?

 

Not at all. I think Percy is the real deal. I went to school at UL and have some first hand reports from friends on him. But even if you're right, worse case scenario we got a developmental McCain replacement and a lights-out ST player. He might not be ready to start year 1 but he's a legit talent. 

 

I think he will push for McCains job or Buffalo nickel out of the gate. Depends on where we view his best fit. I think it'll be at FS over McCain. Rivera seems high on Percy as well.

 

 

[Die Hard]

44 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

It took less than 48 hours for the board to talk themselves into thinking this was a good pick lol

 

Amazing

It’s usually 24 hours. And it’s happened every year since this community’s inception.
 

It’s awesome to watch all 5 stages of grief (loss of expectations) in 24 hours.

 

But being part of the hive community in the early shift of an emotional (energetic) tidal wave is quite a rush.

[KDawg]

Again, I had him 50 overall, we took him at 47. My reservation was, and is, with Travis Jones on the board and going 30 picks later we reached. The talent is there. 
 

But by all means, keep the negativity pulsating through your veins.

Edited May 1, 2022 by KDawg

[Est.1974]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Again, I had him 50 overall, we took him at 47. My reservation was, and is, with Travis Jones on the board and going 30 picks later we reached. The talent is there. 
 

But by all means, keep the negativity pulsating through your veins.

Based on that, we didn’t reach on Mathis. Jones just fell didn’t he?

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Based on that, we didn’t reach on Mathis. Jones just fell didn’t he?

Kind of. My board isn’t set up for value. It’s just overall best players.

 

If my 1T1 is on the board, that technically becomes a reach. And he went 30 slots later.

 

Now, nothing says my rankings are right. And player wise… he went close to where he should have. But in the real draft certain positions are drafted higher than rating due to position.

 

So, your statement is true. Travis Jones fell. And Mathis was a reach because Travis fell.

 

But… that doesn’t mean Mathis can’t play ball.

[Forever A Redskin]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Again, I had him 50 overall, we took him at 47. My reservation was, and is, with Travis Jones on the board and going 30 picks later we reached. The talent is there. 
 

But by all means, keep the negativity pulsating through your veins.

 

 I'd rather "reach" 5-10 pots for a guy our scouts are banging the table for (Dotson and Mathis both apply here) instead of taking a player we know the fans will be jazzed about.

 

I will trust our scouts that had conviction about these players. They've earned the benefit of the doubt with me. Everyone acts like it's Snyder making our draft picks when it's not the guy they want. In reality, we've done an incredible job the last 5 years in drafting and player development.

[Skinsinparadise]

Doesn't matter what the mock draft experts think ala he's a third rounder but not a 2nd rounder or whatever.  but for those who do care about that stuff, both draft magazines i had suggest where they took him made sense.  McGinn's scouts mostly liked Mathis, too. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Doesn't matter what the mock draft experts think ala he's a third rounder but not a 2nd rounder or whatever.  but for those who do care about that stuff, both draft magazines i had suggest where they took him made sense.  McGinn's scouts mostly liked Mathis, too. 

 

 

 

 

 

SIP, what did McGinn say about Dotson & Robinson (i.e. will you post those in their threads)?

[Forever A Redskin]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Kind of. My board isn’t set up for value. It’s just overall best players.

 

If my 1T1 is on the board, that technically becomes a reach. And he went 30 slots later.

 

Now, nothing says my rankings are right. And player wise… he went close to where he should have. But in the real draft certain positions are drafted higher than rating due to position.

 

So, your statement is true. Travis Jones fell. And Mathis was a reach because Travis fell.

 

But… that doesn’t mean Mathis can’t play ball.

 

So just to be devils advocate. The fanbase would be doing cartwheels right now if we took Nakobe Dean at 47 over Mathis. Because 1) Bucky Brooks told them he's a better player and "couldn't believe he fell out of the 1st round" and 2) the fanbase viewed MLB as the bigger need over DT.

 

But we now know that Nakobe Dean didn't get drafted until late 3rd. So it would have been a reach. Mathis' own agent said he wouldn't have lasted another 7 picks if we didn't take him at 47.

 

Just funny to me what would've made the fanbase happy over what we actually did that caused such outrage. Lol.

 

The public's view on what's a reach or value pick matters zero. The only thing that matters is our scouts opinion. And we have tangible proof that they know what they're doing in the mid rounds.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Forever A Redskin

[Renegade7]

50 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Anderson didn’t fit our scheme.

 

He didn't fit anyone's scheme in the NFL, he was a bust.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Renegade7

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

SIP, what did McGinn say about Dotson & Robinson (i.e. will you post those in their threads)?

 

I'll look it up soon, its rare where there is consensus from them on a player, there is typiclaly a negative one among the scouts even with big time prospects, so they are often interesting but those who are positive on the player will find something in them to like and those who are negative on the player will just about always find enough in those reviews to cling to the negative.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

So just to be devils advocate. The fanbase would be doing cartwheels right now if we took Nakobe Dean at 47 over Mathis. Because 1) Bucky Brooks told them he's a better player and "couldn't believe he fell out of the 1st round" and 2) the fanbase viewed MLB as the bigger need over DT.

 

But we now know that Nakobe Dean didn't get drafted until late 3rd. So it would have been a reach. Mathis' own agent said he wouldn't have lasted another 7 picks if we didn't take him at 47.

 

Just funny to me what would've made the fanbase happy over what we actually did that caused such outrage. Lol.

Dean’s torn pec made him untouchable in the second. That’s why he fell. If we drafted him in the second as soon as our fanbase figured it out 3 weeks from now they’d be livid and say how much of a failure this FO is.

 

And who are you devil’s advocating? You know I’m on Mathis’ side, right?

Edited May 1, 2022 by KDawg

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll look it up soon, its rare where there is consensus from them on a player, there is typiclaly a negative one among the scouts even with big time prospects, so they are often interesting but those who are positive on the player will find something in them to like and those who are negative on the player will just about always find enough in those reviews to cling to the negative.

Cool, thanks!

[Forever A Redskin]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Dean’s torn pec made him untouchable in the second. That’s why he fell. If we drafted him in the second as soon as our fanbase figured it out 3 weeks from now they’d be livid and say how much of a failure this FO is.

 

And who are you devil’s advocating? You know I’m on Mathis’ side, right?

 

Haha. I was kinda just continuing on the defending Mathis train. I meant playing devil's advocate to the posters who are bashing the pick 

 

What I can say for sure is that the fanbase would be livid with just about anything we do, despite a damn good track record in the draft.

 

People act like we're still trading all our picks for washed up vets and don't know how to draft. It's kinda tired of you ask me. We had a damn good draft, and I know you agree with me Kdawg.

[KDawg]

Just now, Forever A Redskin said:

 

Haha. I was kinda just continuing on the defending Mathis train. I meant playing devil's advocate to the posters who are bashing the pick 

 

What I can say for sure is that the fanbase would be livid with just about anything we do, despite a damn good track record in the draft.

 

People act like we're still trading all our picks for washed up vets and don't know how to draft. It's kinda tired of you ask me. We had a damn good draft, and I know you agree with me Kdawg.

I liked most of it. There are some picks I don’t know about. But… hey, let’s see what happens.

 

Mathis isn’t one of them. We got a good player.

[Est.1974]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

both draft magazines i had

You’re secret is out SIP. Retro research techniques. Forget the web, magazines all the way.....

[Skinsinparadise]

If someone told me at the beginning of the off season this would happen

 

A.  We'd get arguably a top half of the league QB and to boot IMO one of the top 3 QBs in this draft as a dude to groom...

 

B. We'd arguably fix our RB situation and get one of the best backs in this draft -- a power back to complement Gibson who is more zone...

 

C.  We'd get one of the top WRs to complement Terry

 

D.  We'd add another Alabama DT to play 5 man front and be covered if Payne left

 

E.  In theory added a speedy safety, an F TE to complement our Y TE

 

I'd be pretty happy.  And I don't think they are done.  I think they add LB depth and get that big nickel -- maybe by bringing Landon back.

 

I see on twitter and by some malcontents in the media that the criticism is they have no plan.  I think that's nuts, to me the plan is evident is heck.  They wanted to go code red at QB.  And they did that.  They wanted to add weapons for that Qb.  They did that.  They want to maintain a top D line and a top O line without being crippled by the cap.  I think they've done that, too.

 

As for doing more to fix the secondary.  I wish they did more but you can't fix everything in one off season.  Maybe Butler helps and the corner they drafted and or will sign someone.  Also their secondary played much better in the 2nd half when McCain and Jackson's play improved.   And Fuller was moved more outside and Danny Johnson to slot.  And Collins to big nickle. St. Juste should be healthy.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise