Welcome To The Washington Commanders Jahan Dotson WR Penn State

[IrepDC]

6 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I know I know dont bother telling me Jahan's just in a funk e.g. his fault.

 

Our route tree is limted by the OL. I hate to scapegoat them for so much but it's true. We have to scheme everything around our OL and if we try anything that takes time to develop, our WRs will be covered because our QB is sacked in 2 seconds.

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

I know I know dont bother telling me Jahan's just in a funk e.g. his fault. The handful of All 22 replays I see? Our wideouts are running straight at DBs.

 

Do we know where they ranked last year?

Okay, last year Datsun was given a value of 46 and McLaurin a 51.

 

McLaurin is a 47 and Dotson is a 46.  So Datsun is the same is McLaurin is slightly worse (though that seems consistent with him having turf wo problems).

 

But over all not a big change.  It doesn't look like Dotson is getting less open than in the past.

Edited October 25, 2023 by PeterMP

[RandyHolt]

10 hours ago, IrepDC said:

Our route tree is limted by the OL. I hate to scapegoat them for so much but it's true. We have to scheme everything around our OL and if we try anything that takes time to develop, our WRs will be covered because our QB is sacked in 2 seconds.

I kind of feel like its the opposite??

 

EB seems to ignore our OL woes and blindly calls play after play with his head down expecting the OL to hold up on the next 7 step drop en route to calling 68% pass plays. Do we ever see a simple hot completed, or even attempted? Lots of screens? Jets or outside zone runs vs running into the teeth of the D?  THAT would be scheming around the OLs obvious issues IMO. We did see him add an extra OL last week - thats clear scheming around OL failures. Max Protect - get extra TEs in there over Dyami that can leak out when they whiff.

 

Almost begrudgingly do we see EB finally adjust in the 2nd half. In his defense, JDR takes months to adjust.

 

I am no expert but dammit I may need to get All 22 and start tracking these routes myself. I want heat maps of routes. Only 70 plays a week it cannot be hard at all. Mind boggling how it took so long for analytics to even become a thing. I remain convinced the Manders largely ignore valuable data out there. Ron certainly doesnt. EB had no idea of Sams ramSacked record totals. /rant

Edited October 25, 2023 by RandyHolt

[RandyHolt]

10 hours ago, Conn said:

Dude, yes. The scheme is not helping. The playcalling is not helping.

 

Dotson is also in a slump dropping passes he shouldn’t. Both things can be true.

 

We never stopped to define a drop. A guy running a hook that turns his head to run before securing the ball after it hit both hands right in his face, and drops it?  That is a drop in my book. Old school and we all remember that one well. No excuse.

 

A throw well behind a WR running the opposite direction is not a drop in my book because it hit his desperation attempt to catch it with an outstretched hand. I admit that is a drop for the NFL fan base at large because we all heard announcers say for decades a receiver should catch any ball he can get his hand on. Not me. I finally called BS on that long ago and push back at WRs with no history of drops being the lightning rod for fans. If their team lost.

 

I wont change my opinion on what an accurate throw is... I think all here know what an accurate throw is and its the same as mine. Difference with me is that I hold QBs to the same high standard others hold WRs when grading pass plays. My grading always starts with the throw.

 

Hopefully Jahan has his breakout game this week so we can get back to talking about what a stud he is.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

 

We never stopped to define a drop. A guy running a hook that turns his head to run before securing the ball after it hit both hands right in his face, and drops it?  That is a drop in my book. Old school and we all remember that one well. No excuse.

 

A throw well behind a WR running the opposite direction is not a drop in my book because it hit his desperation attempt to catch it with an outstretched hand. I admit that is a drop for the NFL fan base at large because we all heard announcers say for decades a receiver should catch any ball he can get his hand on. Not me. I finally called BS on that long ago and push back at WRs with no history of drops being the lightning rod for fans. If their team lost.

 

I wont change my opinion on what an accurate throw is... I think all here know what an accurate throw is and its the same as mine. Difference with me is that I hold QBs to the same high standard others hold WRs when grading pass plays. My grading always starts with the throw.

 

Hopefully Jahan has his breakout game this week so we can get back to talking about what a stud he is.

Sorry, it’s still a drop. The blame can be on the QB for a non-perfect (or even poor!) throw while the blame is also on the WR for not catching a pass he needs to catch. The beautiful thing is that blame isn’t a zero sum situation. Howell can throw some of these balls better. Dotson still needs to catch them if he is to live up to a first round pedigree.

 

We are talking about Jahan Dotson. Not some random hypothetical replacement-level WR. Dotson. He needs to catch these balls if he’s the playmaker he’s supposed to be, period. I wouldn’t make this comment about Dyami Brown or Byron Pringle or somebody. I’d say you can’t build an offense around expecting them to make that play, the throw needs to be perfect and you’re probably expecting too much for your random 5th WR to make the game winning catch on a non-perfect throw (although good teams have guys up and down the depth chart who can make those plays). But we aren’t talking about those JAGs, we’re talking about Dotson who is supposed to be an explosive, reliable 1st round playmaker on the ascent. 

 

You need to examine where your own biases are while you’re talking about other peoples’, btw. You expect a perfectly thrown dot downfield in order to blame the playmakers for a drop, but don’t consider that part of grading these guys’ skillsets is how well they can corral imperfect throws. It’s part of the value a guy like Dotson is supposed to bring. You’re grading the WR’s on such a curve like you feel they need to be protected, but look around the league. Good WR’s make those plays every week. The throws aren’t (and can’t!) always be perfect, that’s part of the ecosystem you’re bringing these WR’s into and plays into how valuable they are to you. Of course perfect throws all the time would be ideal. The QB should be held responsible for his half of the exchange, completion or incompletion. But the QB not placing the ball perfectly doesn’t erase the incompletion from the WR’s ledger—there’s an overlap in responsibility there, playmakers need to make plays in imperfect situations to be worth their pedigree (and eventual future contracts). 

Especially in high-leverage situations. 
 

These are drops, even if they are not great throws. 

[Warhead36]

You have to make tough plays to win in the NFL. Look at some of the best QBs in the league, even they get bailed out by their receivers. How many times does Diggs bail out Allen with a tough catch for example? Look at some of the catches DJ Moore made against us. etc. etc.

 

Its just frustrating when our guys have a shot but can't bring them down. It reduces our margin of error so much.

[skinsfan66]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:42 PM, RandyHolt said:

Jahan was ranked in ALL fantasy circles 30-35 ranked top WR league wide before week 1. I saw him as low as 29th. 

 

I think most all here ranked him our 2nd best player on offense.  I bet @Conn did as well.

 

So what happened?  Eric Bieniemy is the elephant in the room. The problem is far more than debating bad passes or complaining that he is not being utilized in the middle of the field.  EBs entire offense is in shambles. The OL is woeful, at full health. EB cannot run the ball and doesn't try. Pass pro and run blocking are terrible. Stunt and blitz pickup, terrible. His schemes are failing miserably. He is on pace to let his QB get RamseySacked - yep another horrific futility historic record is happening to us yet again. Jahan is the same guy he was last year. His usage is the bigger problem. What is at the root of his usage? His routes. I am a Jahan defender. Peace!

 

Jahan had the drops last year too, that has not changed no need to blame EB for this. He was supposed to have these great hands and come down with it when it is in the air. His drop at the 3 was a game changer and it was going across the field. Even though we did not belong in the game. 

[IrepDC]

10 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I kind of feel like its the opposite??

 

EB seems to ignore our OL woes and blindly calls play after play with his head down expecting the OL to hold up on the next 7 step drop en route to calling 68% pass plays. Do we ever see a simple hot completed, or even attempted? Lots of screens? Jets or outside zone runs vs running into the teeth of the D?  THAT would be scheming around the OLs obvious issues IMO. We did see him add an extra OL last week - thats clear scheming around OL failures. Max Protect - get extra TEs in there over Dyami that can leak out when they whiff.

 

Almost begrudgingly do we see EB finally adjust in the 2nd half. In his defense, JDR takes months to adjust.

 

I am no expert but dammit I may need to get All 22 and start tracking these routes myself. I want heat maps of routes. Only 70 plays a week it cannot be hard at all. Mind boggling how it took so long for analytics to even become a thing. I remain convinced the Manders largely ignore valuable data out there. Ron certainly doesnt. EB had no idea of Sams ramSacked record totals. /rant

I have noticed a few hot routes. A quick screen to #17 and a quick hitch to #4 among others. I haven't noticed hot routes to #1. 

 

I think as fans we oversimplify the idea of scheming around the OL when 4 out 5 of our OL are in the bottom 10 of all 160 starting OL across the league.

[kingdaddy]

Between our three WR's and TE, one or more of them should be running a crossing route on every passing play called so Sam has that option. Every passing play called. 

And Sam should almost never drop straight back to pass..he should be rolling out on every pass play. 

Also, how bout some two and three TE looks for better pass protection? 

[Conn]

jahan 😔 

[Going Commando]

He's going to bust in this offense.  He needs to be a featured player getting 7+ targets every week.

[tmandoug1]

Jahan has to make those catches....has to.

[RandyHolt]

I would like to see Jahan get a few extra slot reps. Get rhythm when you get the blues. Make him a primary on Josiah Scott vs Slay or Bradberry. Stats say Philly's vulnerable outside - just like us.

 

I have to say I am surprised we don't see jets sweeps... at all. Especially with Samuel.  Our WRs can help in the run game... anything can help our run game.

 

Interesting to see Jahan's efficiency rate is the same as last year ~ 57%. I ASSumed it was much worse this year.

 

Look at Tyreek off the ****ing chart

Edited October 28, 2023 by RandyHolt

[method man]

As much as I like Samuel and what he has done, one of the arguments for not resigning him are to let Jahan play in the slot. They need a bigger receiver on the outside to complement Terry and Jahan

[moondog]

Memba when people were dogging Dotson? Oh yeah, I memba. 

[Warhead36]

He redeemed himself today…until he dropped that last pass. But he was still outstanding so I wont dog him.

[RandyHolt]

I loved his routes today - EB used the middle of the field and let him turn his body towards the throw which made all his catches look easy.  I missed Jahan's last pass drop... I must have been in the red zone. We are all still stinging from seeing Terry have some bounce off his hands today. 

[JSSkinz]

He got off the schneid but man, you bobble the most important ball of the day and leave it up to the refs which is never good.

 

Good day with a hint of sour.

[RandyHolt]

It seemed many in the GDT think the Jahan drop review was a bad call. I need to watch that again.

[JSSkinz]

14 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

It seemed many in the GDT think the Jahan drop review was a bad call. I need to watch that again.

It looked like a catch, I think the argument is why the refs said it was a catch and then changed their minds, the replay was too difficult to overturn whatever call was made on the field.

[Rex Tomb]

54 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

It looked like a catch, I think the argument is why the refs said it was a catch and then changed their minds, the replay was too difficult to overturn whatever call was made on the field.

Yeah, if anything they should have been reviewing to be sure it was a catch and not a drop.  It was initially ruled that way on the field, but it looks sketchy as **** when they overturn it without even a conversation about it.

Someone didn’t want us to cover the -7 spread. At least it appeared that way.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Rex Tomb

[RandyHolt]

Anyone find a link/gif oh the Jahan "drop" please share - surprised Jahan's tweet didn't have it in the comments... only see Devonte's drop...

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by RandyHolt

[RandyHolt]

Crappy camera angle but its the best I have found.

 

 

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

44 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Crappy camera angle but its the best I have found.

 

 

Someone posted a different angle, showing the ball indeed hitting the ground. I'm still furious with Ron for not challenging the Smith " completion. " He says he didn't see it on the screen. I say who cares. If was clearly a very possible incompletion, which is why PHI ran up to the line. Considering it was 4th down, the magnitude alone tells me that you gotta throw the red flag. So disappointing.

[Warhead36]

Drop or no drop aside it was good to see Dotson involved in the offense. Him not being able to catch anything made no sense so it was good we didn't just completely put him in the doghouse and actually fed him.

 

I'd love to see a heavy McLaurin/Dotson based offense. There is basically no reason to ever let Dyami Brown touch the ball. Heavy McLaurin and Dotson and sprinkle in some Samuel and TE plays.