Koolblue13 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Going Commando said: I loved Metchie as a prospect but I've never heard of a player coming back from something as serious as Leukemia before. We're probably going to be better off with Jahan. You're speaking my language with Linderbaum though. Probably my favorite OC prospect I've ever watched. Just using him as an example. It was a crazy deep WR draft. We didn't need to use a 1rst for a WR2/3 when we could have added so many other quality players and still come away with a WR. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 The only thing I can think of is that they had Dotson and Forbes doing a lot of one-on-one drills at camp, and the suck was contagious. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Conn said: James Conner, right? He had Hodgkins disease, but I don't know if that's better or worse than Leukemia. It seems miraculous that Metchie is playing football at all again, but I doubt he'll be the same kind of athlete he was before his knee injury and cancer diagnosis. Pulling for him. I love watching him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinscub Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 On 10/18/2023 at 10:13 PM, Dan T. said: What to make of this??? Hopefully he is our new kicker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) I am sure i am alone but will stick to my guns. The routes EB has Jahan running are terrible for him IMO. Jahan sprinting straight out of bounds is not how best to utilize him. Then the pass behind him probably thrown at 50mph... I know it hit his hand reaching back so he has to catch that every time. I saw a pass to TMC on the right sideline earlier in the game, and the route curled back so he could face the QB, making it MUCH easier to catch the pass. Why aren't we doing that with Jahan, is it because we think he is too small and thus cannot shield the defender? We aren't using him in the center of the field and he is invisible. Is it because he is outside, never getting slot reps or ? His routes often seem to be him sprinting straight towards the sideline. He needs to be able to face the QB to drop the drops. Edited October 23, 2023 by RandyHolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 He's never open and can't catch the football. He's a smaller Josh Doctson. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 It's disturbing how badly we failing our player development. Dotson looked ready to pop off the screen last year, now we talking about cutting him? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: It's disturbing how badly we failing our player development. Dotson looked ready to pop off the screen last year, now we talking about cutting him? Yep its a tribute to coaching. Look at Monken the new Ravens OC. Lamar Jackson, who has already won an MVP, might be even BETTER now. Coaching matters. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mh86 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Yep its a tribute to coaching. Look at Monken the new Ravens OC. Lamar Jackson, who has already won an MVP, might be even BETTER now. Coaching matters. Agreed. Coaching and scheme are a huge factor in why we aren’t seeing growth in some of our players. Funny how they run around screaming “do your job”, yet they’ve taken almost no blame and are probably the prime reason. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 39 minutes ago, mh86 said: Agreed. Coaching and scheme are a huge factor in why we aren’t seeing growth in some of our players. Funny how they run around screaming “do your job”, yet they’ve taken almost no blame and are probably the prime reason. Yup take no blame, almost arrogantly to date. Then adopt the "do your job" message and expect that to somehow help. That is not good leadership but hey, this isn't the right thread for me to continue down this rant road... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) I know i am beating a dead horse here but I HATE this route for Jahan. Let him turn inside and face the QB vs the sideline and viola the drops will go away. I guarantee it. He didnt forget how to catch folks. Lead him inside and loft it up so he can adjust to an under/over throw. I am probably alone but think Sam has been overthrowing some of his deep throws. You can see Jahan has jumped, arms straight, and you can see the white of the sideline between his black gloves and the ball. Sure he got a finger on it or whatever but that does not always equate to "he should catch every ball that hits his finger"; a reminder to no one he is not a 6'3 big sticky one hand grab WR type. He looks all of 5'10 in this grab. No pun intended. Edited October 23, 2023 by RandyHolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, RandyHolt said: I know i am beating a dead horse here but I HATE this route for Jahan. Let him turn inside and face the QB vs the sideline and viola the drops will go away. I guarantee it. He didnt forget how to catch folks. I am probably alone but think Sam has been overthrowing some of his deep throws. You can see Jahan has jumped, arms straight, and you can see the white of the sideline between his black gloves and the ball. Sure he got a finger on it or whatever but that does not always equate to "he should catch every ball that hits his finger"; a reminder to no one he is not a 6'3 big sticky one hand grab WR type. I see 25 different WRs make a catch on that route on Redzone every week. The throw, maybe it could’ve been more perfect, it’s not important to my point here bc I’m really just responding to disagree with your point about the route concept. You’re getting deep into the weeds the last couple of days trying to rationalize for yourself why Dotson has the drops right now. Yes these catches can be difficult. Yes he still needs to be capable of running and executing a catch on this route (in general—again I’m not engaging on whether this was a perfect throw as it’s not important to the point you’re trying to make about the routes they’re asking Dotson to run). The guy is in his own head right now and they need to scheme him up some easy plays to get him confident and in a rhythm again. But in a macro sense, he needs to be able to make a play on this route. The answer to eliminating his drops isn’t to eliminate the more difficult part of the route tree for him. He’s a first round pick. “I hate this route for Jahan” like he needs to be protected from this route is silly as hell. Edited October 23, 2023 by Conn 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) Wait, do you call that a drop ALL Jahan's fault? If so read on. 25 heh that the WR only get their finger tips on - ok finding me one from yesterday will be easy then. I watch red zone too. Again one that bounced off a sub 6 foot WRs fingers that they caught running full speed while jumping arms out, again that was slightly overthrown 30 yards downfield over the shoulder led to the sideline. Not all WRs can run every route tree as you know. End zone fade. Curious if you think that is in Jahan's route wheelhouse and does he excel in all? The same ones that got us enamored with him in the first place. It's tough outside for short WRs in the NFL. I'd like to see him in the slot far more than he is. Regardless EBs offense is a hot mess and we all you know it. He doesn't even call hot routes for Sam vs obvious blitzes. We faced heavy press all day - most all year per TMC. I heard EB didnt even call the routes best called vs press but cannot recall what they are. Sam tried to loft that pass vs Atlanta but it was slightly overthrown. It's ok to say it was overthrown. He wasn't under pressure. You wont convince me that was a great throw. Maybe he could have dove but he did jump and get the arms out at the correct time. Embedded extra tweet see below. Edited October 24, 2023 by RandyHolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 @RandyHoltplease read my post before responding next time. I (twice!) specified that I didn’t care about the throw because I wasn’t addressing whether that was specifically a drop or not or whatever. I was only addressing your assertion that he shouldn’t be running that route, or that it’s a route you “hate for him”. There are plenty of ways I’d be getting the ball into his hands that EB isn’t seemingly interested in, that isn’t why I responded to your post. That route needs to be one he can execute on, so I don’t agree with your idea that it’s not something he should be asked to do. That’s all. You’re trying to shield him from something that is well within his job parameters. He’s perfectly capable of catching the ball on that route (again—I do not care about that one rep, I’m addressing your larger point about his usage on that route at all, in a macro sense. You keep using this as a jumping off point for more writing about Howell’s various throws when it’s not the point I’m responding to) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) Jahan was ranked in ALL fantasy circles 30-35 ranked top WR league wide before week 1. I saw him as low as 29th. I think most all here ranked him our 2nd best player on offense. I bet @Conn did as well. So what happened? Eric Bieniemy is the elephant in the room. The problem is far more than debating bad passes or complaining that he is not being utilized in the middle of the field. EBs entire offense is in shambles. The OL is woeful, at full health. EB cannot run the ball and doesn't try. Pass pro and run blocking are terrible. Stunt and blitz pickup, terrible. His schemes are failing miserably. He is on pace to let his QB get RamseySacked - yep another horrific futility historic record is happening to us yet again. Jahan is the same guy he was last year. His usage is the bigger problem. What is at the root of his usage? His routes. I am a Jahan defender. Peace! Edited October 24, 2023 by RandyHolt 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) This is where you get into an evaluation of him as a player and even a draft pick. If that's not a route that he can run routinely, win on, and make a difficult catch (regularly, not every time), then he can't really be your #2 WR unless you have an elite QB or some other basis of having an outstanding offense and shouldn't have been a 1st round daft pick. If you are going to be a really good NFL WR (not pro-bowl), that's something you need to be able to do. If that's not something he can do, then he shouldn't have been a 1st round pick and can't really be your #2 WR unless there's something else that stands out. Because if you can't use your #2 WR on that type of route, it really limits your offense and makes it predictable where the defense only has to defend a limited number of routes. Looking at one time, doesn't mean much. But to say, that's not something he should be doing (regularly), tells me he was badly misdrafted, and we don't have a really good #2 WR. Edited October 24, 2023 by PeterMP 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, PeterMP said: This is where you get into an evaluation of him as a player and even a draft pick. If that's not a route that he can run routinely, win on, and make a difficult catch (regularly, not every time), then he can't really be your #2 WR unless you have an elite QB or some other basis of having an outstanding offense and shouldn't have been a 1st round daft pick. If you are going to be a really good NFL WR (not pro-bowl), that's something you need to be able to do. If that's not something he can do, then he shouldn't have been a 1st round pick and can't really be your #2 WR unless there's something else that stands out. Because if you can't use your #2 WR on that type of route, it really limits your offense and makes it predictable where the defense only has to defend a limited number of routes. Looking at one time, doesn't mean much. But to say, that's not something he should be doing (regularly), tells me he was badly misdrafted, and we don't have a really good #2 WR. Good points. Your post brings it back to draft day to me. I didnt like the pick - nothing against the player as usual - just that based on his size i projected him optimally as a slot guy. You don't need to draft slot guys in the first round per unnamed draftniks. So that leads me to, where is he getting his snaps? I think its usually outside R. Maybe its time to figure out our XYZs - notably absent from any posts I have perused. I'll share fantasy data showing L R Slot snap %s when i find it next. More than the routes i **** about maybe it's more the position. With 4 and 5 wide so often now, is XYZ even relevant. Was Jahan maybe more often in the slot in Turners offense - they all move around but stats don't track where they kill defenses. I think Samuel is the primary slot guy thus far. Edited October 24, 2023 by RandyHolt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 EB isn't the reason Dotson is dropping balls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 8 hours ago, Warhead36 said: EB isn't the reason Dotson is dropping balls. The scheme and game plans aren't helping him though. If you want receivers to get into rhythm, you've got to scheme them some quick and easy stuff early in the game. They finally started doing that with Terry the past two games, and it's worked well. They need to do it for Jahan too. He's the second best weapon in the offense and we're throwing 40-50 times a game. Why is he seeing so few targets? The kid has electric speed, why isn't he getting YAC opportunities? We can't pass protect long enough for all of our concepts to be breaking 15+ yards down field anyway. I'm beyond pissed about the way our coaches have run the D this year, but the most disappointing thing about this season for me has been how bad a job Eric Bieniemy has done. This guy is supposed to be a fantastic coach, but his schemes, gameplans, and playcalling have been awful. He was supposed to be a star and instead he looks like the OC job is too big for him. Churning through OCs is so detrimental to the long term success of a team build that it makes me hope the next head coach is an offensive guy who can come in and establish one consistent system and call the plays himself if needed. But as we've seen in the past, someone needs to be above those guys on the org chart who prioritizes defense and makes sure to have high quality player and coaching personnel on that side of the ball. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 That's fair and I agree we gotta scheme some more early looks for Dotson. But when he has a chance to make a big play he's mostly failed. I blame EB for a lot but Dotson's issues are mostly on him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) WRs need to stop trying to turn backwards while running full speed and just try to catch that ****ty pass behind them using one hand, pinning on their bullocks if needed. Bijan did it and now Pitts as well. Twice in 1 year... analytics will now support trying this more often. I wonder if 1970s era coach Arthur Smith coached them up or RIdder's passes suck so often they have adjusted on their own. https://x.com/BleacherReport/status/1716148287374524847?s=20 Bijan Pre Headache Edited October 24, 2023 by RandyHolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) Jahan and TMC both credited with 1 drop last week per some dude. I like the catchable stat. Which was Jahan's drop - our final play on the 1 yard line? I don't remember all his other missed connections to know for sure. I was clearly too busy rage posting on ES. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z-wyQ14IG-GB6eC3fXNefeX4TVwo-A9nwf_flkqDYYA/edit#gid=2007397408 Edited October 24, 2023 by RandyHolt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 Didn’t see these struggles coming with Jahan at all. Thought having safe hands was a given with him. Hopefully it’s a short term dip and he recovers form soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 (edited) I know I know dont bother telling me Jahan's just in a funk e.g. his fault. The handful of All 22 replays I see? Our wideouts are running straight at DBs. Edited October 25, 2023 by RandyHolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, RandyHolt said: I know I know dont bother telling me Jahan's just in a funk e.g. his fault. The handful of All 22 replays I see? Our wideouts are running straight at DBs. Dude, yes. The scheme is not helping. The playcalling is not helping. Dotson is also in a slump dropping passes he shouldn’t. Both things can be true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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