ntotoro Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 If they wanted Payne back, they'd take the extension and another year on the cheap. Why is that not obvious to anyone and everyone? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderInTheRye Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) On 5/20/2022 at 10:03 AM, Skinsinparadise said: Keim's latest podcast. A ton of sunshine in the mix. A. AGG moving to TE, he's already bulked up and at least looks the part. It is probably his best shot to extend his career vs WR. B. He mentioned Kelvin Harmon didn't want to move to TE. And he said he's heard he looks good from what they've seen in the off season, got his speed back (post ACL) and he thinks he might have a good shot to make the roster. Personally, I liked Harmon as a late round flier at WR in that draft. Yeah he wasn't fast but he had good hands and can seperate well in college, really good blocker too, maybe great as a blocker. So IMO he'd be a solid backup. He flashed more IMO in his rookie season than someone like AGG. C. He somewhat implied they liked Bradberry but didn't love him so there is a limit to what they'd give. And they are still intrigued by St. Juste. D. They've already seen that Percy Butler is a compulsive-fanatic level studier with major drive to make an impact this season. There is optimism he plays in their 3 safety sets this season among other things. E. He talked again about them wanting to keep their nucleus in house, keep their own and it influences their salary cap moves. F. He had Chris Paul's coach on talking up Paul. He talked up Paul saying he's a smart guy, mega talented, their big leader in the locker room. A bit of a renassiance guy, good student, musician, etc. He's been around college O lineman who have played well in the NFL, Paul is cut from that same cloth. He thinks he can play tackle or guard but is a better guard. He thinks he should gone way earlier in the draft. He thinks he will be a starter in the NFL and it will happen fast for him. One of my draft magazines rated Paul if I recall as a third rounder and if I recall McGinn's scouts had him ranked higher than where we took him. I think Brugler had him in the 5th? For a dude who is 323 pounds, a 4.89 40 is really good. Masko is maybe the best O line coach in the league and can mold players well. Feels like Paul has some upside potential "AGG moving to TE, he's already bulked up and at least looks the part." AGG spent his off season training at Laron Landry's "Muscle Man Academy" in Jasper, Wyoming, throwing steel, taking daily supplements and receiving special "vitamin" injections from professor Laron himself. He is ready to beast folks now... Check out his before pic... And here's what AGG looks like after spending 2 weeks at Laron's "Muscle Man Academy"... . Edited May 21, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, Die Hard said: Why would you tell any player on your roster that you don’t like them and don’t want them back?!? Of course they want him back. But at the $$ they want to pay…. not what the player wants. If the player has to go into a contract year… then he’s going to go to the highest bidder. Of which this team is no longer willing. Daron is not a public/expressive person. He’s never given any indication of how he feels about the organization/city. I don’t know if he has any ties here or built any roots. Doesn’t seem so. The only way he returns is if he gives the team a hometown discount. I just don’t see it. When Keim talks about them wanting Payne back, he's referencing what he's being told privately as opposed to their public stance. So I do think there is something to it for real. And I agree money is the X factor so I think it can end up going either way for that reason. Personally, I think if Payne has the typical season he's had thus far next season, he won't break the bank in FA. Some used to argue (haven't seen it recently) that Payne > Jonathan Allen. I never thought so, I still don't and I think with the longer sample size now, its clear IMO that Allen > Payne. And Allen also brings more leadership than Payne, too. So to me Allen is a clear peg ahead of Payne. Payne is a good player and I do think he has the potential to have an explosive season where he's actually talked about for the first time as at least a marginal pro bowler caliber player even though it hasn't happened for him thus far. But if that type of season doesn't come this year, then I don't see why he gets paid much more than his old Alabama teammate, Dalvin Tomlinson. He probably gets a little more because its 2 years after Dalvin's contract. But I think he ends up closer to 12 million a season then he does 20 million unless he has a breakout season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Daron is going to be pissed his extension wasn’t exercised. He’s being made to gamble this year and prove it. And as a result, he’s not going to do this franchise any favours. You see Allen’s face on all the team media?!? Daron isn’t in the plans here. Even if the money is equal, he’s gone. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 42 minutes ago, ntotoro said: If they wanted Payne back, they'd take the extension and another year on the cheap. Why is that not obvious to anyone and everyone? I like to speculate myself. Anything is possible. But speaking for myself, I don't bet against Keim. Whomever his sources are, they haven't misled him much over the years. Among a ton of other things, Keim was on their interest on Wentz when no one else was. Dotson seems to come out of the blue to some but Keim mentioned him in his podcasts probably at least 5 times. He mentioned Gibson before we drafted him. Fitzpatrick was mentioned close to FA that season. On and on and on. So if he's saying there is some interest in bringing back Payne, I buy it. the fact that money can influence it one way or another, I buy that too. I don't think Payne is a do whatever it takes to keep him in the fold kind of player like lets say Terry or Jonathan Allen, etc. So its potentially grey type of situation like it is with most players. The 5th year option cost them about 8.5 million. That's nothing killer. And they did that. As far as signing Payne to a new contract, which is the place they are at now, its obviously tied to what Payne's agent wants. To franchise tag a DT next year it would cost 18 million. Some agents like to use that as the anchor in a negotiation. Vea just got over 18 million a year in his new contract/extension. But he IMO is a better player. If the 18 million is an anchor, they likely think their agent perhaps is overpricing their client, and if so I get the idea of let it play out and let the market dictate it and if the market dicates Payne gets big money then let him go. This part is pure speculation on my end -- nothing to do with Keim. Good example might be Flowers. According to Keim among others they were high on Flowers. Good player. Good locker room guy, etc. They wanted him back. They talked with his agent about an extension to help their cap situation and apparently his agent wanted a big raise and they decided to let him go. And as some beat guy said (I think it was Keim but I don't recall 100% for sure) the Flowers camp might regret how they played things now because he might end up playing for less money than his contract at the time let alone them shooting for more. So for Payne, I can totally see some sort of grey situation like Flowers which is they genuinely want the player back but want him back purely at their price. Dalvin Tomlinson got paid 10.5 a year 2 years ago, I don't see why Payne is on another level, I think they are very comparable. I'd bump Payne up to 12 million because its 2 years after the Tomlinson contract but I think the two are almost perfect comps. Edited May 20, 2022 by Skinsinparadise 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Die Hard said: No. They already declined his 5th year extension. He’s in a contract year now. He should be motivated to stay healthy and play. The team is saying all the right things about wanting to keep him and nothing is ruled out. But we all know what that means…. I’m not really following this. Fifth year extension, what is that? As a first rounder, they exercised his fifth year option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ball Security said: I’m not really following this. Fifth year extension, what is that? As a first rounder, they exercised his fifth year option. Yep. They could trigger the 5th year option and they did -- that's what Payne is playing on now. Now, unless i am missing something, its purely about a full new contract, probably a 3 year deal give or take and i gather Payne's agent has let the FO know what they are looking for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, Ball Security said: I’m not really following this. Fifth year extension, what is that? As a first rounder, they exercised his fifth year option. You are correct. This season is his 5th, and they exercised the option on it. Time flies 😊 And let’s not forget Standig reported the team also quietly let teams know he might be available for trade during this draft. https://nfltraderumors.co/commanders-gauged-trade-market-for-dt-daron-payne/ Doesn’t sound like a cornerstone player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Die Hard said: No. They already declined his 5th year extension. He’s in a contract year now. He should be motivated to stay healthy and play. The team is saying all the right things about wanting to keep him and nothing is ruled out. But we all know what that means…. Payne is playing on his 5th year option this year at 8.5m I believe. Rivera wants to keep him I expect a LTD for Payne soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Should have traded Payne for a couple of mid rounds picks if he was effectively gone. Especially when we targeted DL in the second round. 8 minutes ago, markmills67 said: Payne is playing on his 5th year option this year at 8.5m I believe. Rivera wants to keep him I expect a LTD for Payne soon. I don’t, we drafted DL in the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, markmills67 said: Payne is playing on his 5th year option this year at 8.5m I believe. Rivera wants to keep him I expect a LTD for Payne soon. You are correct. Rivera also wanted Stafford, but not more than the Rams. Payne has a big say too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Die Hard said: No. They already declined his 5th year extension. He’s in a contract year now. He should be motivated to stay healthy and play. The team is saying all the right things about wanting to keep him and nothing is ruled out. But we all know what that means…. https://sports.yahoo.com/report-commanders-not-expected-offer-003951364.html This year is his 5th year option. They simply haven't extended. Edit: clearly addressed already... 1 hour ago, Ball Security said: I’m not really following this. Fifth year extension, what is that? As a first rounder, they exercised his fifth year option. The value is set to the same as the transition tag (at least it used to be). So 8.5nill for Daron, but it'd be more for QB or others. Edited May 20, 2022 by CommDownMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderInTheRye Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: Yep. They could trigger the 5th year option and they did -- that's what Payne is playing on now. Now, unless i am missing something, its purely about a full new contract, probably a 3 year deal give or take and i gather Payne's agent has let the FO know what they are looking for. "...i gather Payne's agent has let the FO know what they are looking for..." I suspect they let the front office know that Snyder should be prepared to accept the financial equivalent of a raw dog double fisting (and I aint talkin' bout no emojis) if he hopes to resign Daron. . Edited May 20, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Well, I'm trying really hard to not work today, so let's search the intricacies of the 5th year option and it's relationship to the transition tag!! Payne was 13th overall, so he actually falls into the bolded below (which makes sense because the transition tag for DTs was near 15mil). This negates the highest 2 salaries, adds in 15 more lower salaries and uses some formula to get to the 8.5mill value. While we didn't draft at 11 this year, there is some interesting thought behind the value of 10th vs 11th picks. For Daron, it basically made a 6.2mill difference, near double what his 5th year option gets him. Wilson (10th) vs Olave (11th) in 4years will likely be ~18-19mill vs ~13-14mill. Mental note to self: decide who has the better 4 year deal vs production, to match that up with what they are owed... 2020 NFL CBA Explained: 5th Year Option in Rookie Contracts – Front Office Football (frontofficenfl.com) For players selected in the top 10 picks of the 2016 or ’17 drafts, the fifth-year option will pay a base salary equal to the transition tag for the position at which he played the most plays in his fourth season (the season prior to the option year). For those selected from picks 11 to 32, the option will be equal to an amount calculated by using the formula for the transition tag but with the third- through 25th-highest PYS in the player’s fourth season rather than the top 10 such salaries. The tender for the 2016 and ’17 classes is guaranteed for injury only and becomes fully guaranteed for skill, cap and injury if the player is on the active roster at the start of the league year of his fifth (the option) season. NFL franchise tags, explained: Meaning, deadlines, updated position values & rules for tags in 2022 | Sporting News 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 With all the Daron Payne talk the one some are forgotten about is Sweat. I hope this team resigns Sweat to an extension. He is more important than Payne, IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 hour ago, RWJ said: With all the Daron Payne talk the one some are forgotten about is Sweat. I hope this team resigns Sweat to an extension. He is more important than Payne, IMO. His 5th year option was picked up, which means it's a 2 year from now FA issue. I'm assuming that's why it's less talked about, but locking in now may be a good idea as well. Same draft as Terry, so clearly it is now an option to start those talks. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 hour ago, CommDownMan said: His 5th year option was picked up, which means it's a 2 year from now FA issue. I'm assuming that's why it's less talked about, but locking in now may be a good idea as well. Same draft as Terry, so clearly it is now an option to start those talks. Payne is a free agent after the 2022 season unless he re-signs either now or next off-season. We could also use the franchise Tag in 2023. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffy Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 I think they'll wait and see what they have in Mathis before they go LTD with Payne. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrshadow008 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 Kinda surprised no one has brought this up yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said: Kinda surprised no one has brought this up yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 6 hours ago, markmills67 said: Payne is a free agent after the 2022 season unless he re-signs either now or next off-season. We could also use the franchise Tag in 2023. The quote I responded to was talking about Sweat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) Game vs Indy just added a few new herbs n spices. Nick Foles expected to sign w/ Indy https://www.nfl.com/news/qb-nick-foles-expected-to-sign-with-colts-reunite-with-frank-reich I honestly am not sure which is more appealing from a revenge angle, playing Ryan or Foles... The guy who replaced you... or the guy who gave you the ring on your finger... Dang good TV either way I guess. Edited May 21, 2022 by FootballZombie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Mrshadow008 said: Kinda surprised no one has brought this up yet. He stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: He stinks. At the very least he's a good guy to bring into camp to compete with Danny Johnson for a spot. If he doesn't make the active roster, he can sit on the practice squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philibusters Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said: He stinks. I thought he was an okay role player here. Can play the slot corner and can play zone coverages. Probably not a NFL starter, but he should have a place in the NFL. Edited May 21, 2022 by philibusters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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