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The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle


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53 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

People were trying to get a QB into round 1 this past draft but the ones who do the multi year watching we’re struggling to get one in. It’s why Willis “rose” during the process. 
 

Tua was still a top option. Of course some guy that was under recruiting had some massive growth spurt late senior year. There’s about 1 a year that rises. Sometimes more but rarely. Sometimes less. 

I don’t know how many times I’ll have to list out the names for you to get it. The top guys are known years in advance now. 

sorry but you’re 100% wrong 

I’m not so sure. Google “way too early 2022 mock draft” to look at some of the forecasts from right after the 2021 draft. They aren’t even close to what actually happened.

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Again it was forcing of a guy to the top of the crop because we know the NFL will get a guy at the top. It played out as a no one worthy of being forced. Like so many anticipated. That this was going to be the worst draft class in a decade. It played out as so. 

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5 hours ago, NickyJ said:

The Eagles landing Bradberry gives them the best CB roster since Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Nnamdi Asomugha. And the Eagles haven't had such a promising QB since they got Vince Young. They're going to be an awesome team. Some might even call it a "dream team". There's no way they can be overrated.

Who are the Eagles safeties? 

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2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Again it was forcing of a guy to the top of the crop because we know the NFL will get a guy at the top. It played out as a no one worthy of being forced. Like so many anticipated. That this was going to be the worst draft class in a decade. It played out as so. 

Except literally nobody said that.  And you don’t force a 5th round guy to the #1 overall pick to have a QB in the first.    All the experts had multiple QBs going in the first round.  And they weren’t just picking a guy to pick a guy.  
 

None of the experts have any idea.  None do the GMs have any idea.  
 

Hell, it’s almost damn near impossible to get the evaluation right for the current draft class.  How many QBs have been busts?  And that’s with the benefit of all the film, combine, senior bowl, interviews, pro days, in-site visits.   And still, Mitch Trubisky is picked second overall and Goff is picked #1 overall.  
 

With the batting average being so low on the current class, the batting average a year out is damn near impossible to figure out.  
 

The Eagles haven’t been heading towards the 2022 draft for 2 years.  They drafted Hurts in the second round of the 2020 draft while they still had Wentz.  
 

You are the only one with the crystal ball that can see the future of a draft class before the season.  Absolutely nobody else in the world can.  I grant there will be some guys who are obvious and they will stick.  Trevor Lawrence was a guy who went into the year as the probable #1 pick and it worked out that way.  That happens sometimes.  But not all the time.  And you can’t tell when it is going to happen and when it won’t.  
 

And don’t give me the physical traits bull***.  By that measure, Haskins is the top prospect across the board and Willis is off the board in the first.  There is SO much more to playing QB than physical traits.  They are table stakes.  Yeah, you’ve got to have a good arm and some mobility. Size would be helpful.  Maybe this is why you like Fields so much? He has great physical tools.  But you’ve also go to have accuracy, quick decision making, experience, leadership and be able to read a defense.  And no serious injury history.  


Fields was a good prospect.  Even though his physical tools are off the charts.  He wasn’t a great prospect.  And nothing he did in his rookie year shows the “good but not great” label was wrong.  Burrow had a great rookie year until his ACL injury.  Herbert was also a “good not great” prospect and had a great rookie (and second) year.  If you re-drafted that class, Burrow goes 1 and Herbert goes 2.  But Herbert went 6, and after Tua.  Who might not go in the top 10…
 

Unless you’re talking about a 4 year starter, you really can’t tell anything until their final year playing.  
 

Which means, yes, you should peek ahead to see what’s available.  But you do not make determinations on strategy based on that. 
 

Also, as I’ve said, the experts and the “consensus big boards” are all ****.  They’re looking at tape and combine numbers.  They don’t see medicals, meet with players, have white board sessions when them, do scheme fits, have onsite visits, interviews, talk to their coaches, talk to their HS coaches, girlfriends, ex-girlfriends, etc.  The draftnik cottage industry was created by Mel Kiper, with a huge assist from Colts GM Bill Tobin who called him out on his bull**** in 1994 (and was eight, FWIW). 
 

And the “way too early” stuff is even less relevant than the day before the draft stuff, which is also irrelevant.  

 

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6 hours ago, NickyJ said:

The Eagles landing Bradberry gives them the best CB roster since Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Nnamdi Asomugha. And the Eagles haven't had such a promising QB since they got Vince Young. They're going to be an awesome team. Some might even call it a "dream team". There's no way they can be overrated.

I had completely forgotten Vince Young played for the Eagles for a year.  

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10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And don’t give me the physical traits bull***.  By that measure, Haskins is the top prospect across the board and Willis is off the board in the first.  There is SO much more to playing QB than physical traits.  They are table stakes.  Yeah, you’ve got to have a good arm and some mobility. Size would be helpful.  Maybe this is why you like Fields so much? He has great physical tools.  But you’ve also go to have accuracy, quick decision making, experience, leadership and be able to read a defense.  And no serious injury history.  

This sounds like a defense of TH? TH checks off several of the boxes where you list traits of a good NFL QB....most notably he won games against better QB's all with a depleted offense because he's a competitor and good leader. Well done, good to see you are coming around and that there's more to QB play than just arm strength. 

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35 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Not as much as you are, I see you’re still at it :)

 

Sure but tough to ignore the narrative when its a running theme moving foward versus a one and done type of narrative.  It's talked about consistently now from many directions, heck even Galdi threw it out there on his podcast today, 4 mentions from different people yesterday.

 

It would be one thing if media narratives about Dan typically prove to be BS over time and he has a strong record of being vindicated.  But its been pretty much the opposite with rare exceptions.  I've done better betting on narratives that bet against Dan than bet with him.  And it hasn't been close.   So between that and his obvious unique challenges with paying a big loan and potentially financing the stadium, I won't give him the benefit of the doubt that his cash flow is no different than any other point in his tenure.   People are bringing up the question for a reason.

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35 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

This sounds like a defense of TH? TH checks off several of the boxes where you list traits of a good NFL QB....most notably he won games against better QB's all with a depleted offense because he's a competitor and good leader. Well done, good to see you are coming around and that there's more to QB play than just arm strength. 

At what point did you become a subscriber to the line of thought that a player needs to be either physically fit or mentally fit, not both?

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1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

This sounds like a defense of TH? TH checks off several of the boxes where you list traits of a good NFL QB....most notably he won games against better QB's all with a depleted offense because he's a competitor and good leader. Well done, good to see you are coming around and that there's more to QB play than just arm strength. 

Actually, if you read the full thing you quoted, I said "Yeah, you’ve got to have a good arm and some mobility. Size would be helpful."

 

The phrase that I've used for ages is NFL arm talent is "table stakes" to be a starting NFL QB.  You have to have it, or else nothing else matters.  If you do have it, then you can proceed to the next level.  JUST BECAUSE you have a good arm, does NOT mean you will be a good QB.  I've said that over and over.  Jeff George had a cannon.  Terrible QB.  Leaf had a great arm.  Terrible QB.  In our own history, Heath Shuler, Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Robert Griffin and Dwayne Haskins (RIP) all had monster arms, and all were bad QBs. (Griffin gets an exception for his rookie season, when he was outstanding.) 

 

Once you have established you have an NFL arm, you progress to the next phase, which is what I stated: decision making, ability to read a defense, leadership, durability, accuracy, throwing with anticipation, etc.  

 

TH does not have an NFL arm.  Ergo he can't be a starting NFL QB.  It's that simple.

 

I've also posted a dozen times that there are plenty of reasons why I like TH as a backup: he knows the offense, he's respected in the locker-room, he is a super competitor, and is going to give you his best effort. He also has really good mobility, and can escape pressure. These are all traits you love to see in an NFL backup.  

 

His biggest negative is lack of arm strength which removes certain types of plays from the offense.  Ron, Martin and Scott Turner all like TH.  Especially Scott Turner.  However, all of them have said during this off-season the team was limited offensively by what TH could and could not do.  None of them said it maliciously.  And neither have I.  It just is what it is.  

 

You seem so fixated on the fact I, and literally everybody else except Sabah, says he can't be an NFL starting QB you miss the fact we almost unanimously say we like him as a backup.  At least for this year. We'll see what happens with Howell after that.  But for this year, he's a great backup.  He's the only QB in the room who knows the offense.  I argued against posters who said we should release him to save ~$3M in cap savings this year. Which is not nothing, it's a pretty good amount of savings.  But I still think it's worth keeping him around.  I'm not hating on the guy.  I just see what he is.  So does everybody else.  And in fact, so does he.  He has said it himself, he's happy to be on a roster. He said he was happy being a backup.  He knows.  

 

As ab aside, I really do think you should drop the "he beat better QBs than him" narrative. It's just stupid. TH isn't suiting up for the defense, he isn't facing Tom Brady directly.  Or Russell Wilson, or any of the other QBs. Mahomes didn't beat Josh Allen in the AFC Divisional game.  Allen had nothing to do with Mahomes managing to get into FG range in 16 seconds to tie the game.  And he had nothing to do with the Bills defense not being able to stop the Chiefs in OT.  That loss isn't remotely on Allen.  Mahomes didn't beat Allen.  The Chiefs beat the Bills.  Mostly because of bad coaching on the part of the Bills at the end of the game, somewhat on luck, and some on the fact Mahomes can be a magician.  But that's not on Allen.  He played brilliantly and still lost.  

 

I said this during the Manning vs. Brady battles.  The guy who Manning was battling wasn't really Brady.  It was Belichick, who for the longest time, had his number from the defensive side.  Brady was the opposing QB, but Peyton wasn't playing against Brady.  He was playing against the Patriots defenses, which in the 00's (especially the early 00's) was absolutely outstanding.  And totally had his number.  Brady gets credit for that, and sure, he was the opposing QB. But he had to go up against an (at best) average Colt's defense while Peyton went up against an outstanding Patriots defense.  

 

The whole "this QB beat that QB" is just an absolutely terrible position to take.

 

The TEAM has to beat the opposing TEAM.  There's a ton that goes into it.  The QB play is very important, to be sure.  But you need good QB play every week regardless of who the opposing QB is. 

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14 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Except literally nobody said that.  And you don’t force a 5th round guy to the #1 overall pick to have a QB in the first.    All the experts had multiple QBs going in the first round.  And they weren’t just picking a guy to pick a guy.  
 

None of the experts have any idea.  None do the GMs have any idea.  
 

Hell, it’s almost damn near impossible to get the evaluation right for the current draft class.  How many QBs have been busts?  And that’s with the benefit of all the film, combine, senior bowl, interviews, pro days, in-site visits.   And still, Mitch Trubisky is picked second overall and Goff is picked #1 overall. 

 

 

Also almost every year some dude emerges out of the blue in a draft class.  Kyler Murray.  Mac Jones.  Zach Wilson.  Joe Burrow, etc.

 

Also some dudes that are projected to be studs can fade later in their college career -- Matt Barkley, Jake Locker, etc.

 

I post probably more mock drafts on the board than anyone.  I love listening to draft podcasts.  Very entertaining.  But these guys aren't the be all and end all.  Kiper said years ago he was so sure Clausen would be a good Qb that he's quit if he ended up wrong.   Most mock draft types are awful at predicting QBs.

 

https://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=4059528

Kiper: Easy. JaMarcus Russell is their guy. He has one of the strongest arms the NFL has ever seen.

McShay: They will take Russell because the smart move is to draft the QB of the future. But Calvin Johnson is the top player on my board.

 

02. LIONS

McShay: I know this will drive their fans crazy, but the Lions will select Johnson. They should take Brady Quinn, but you get the sense they don't like him.

Kiper: If the Lions pass on Quinn, it would be yet another in a long line of questionable decisions. I think they will, although not for Johnson. They'll take Clemson DE Gaines Adams, a Simeon Rice-type edgerusher.

 

03. BROWNS

Kiper: For the same reasons the Lions should take Quinn, Cleveland actually will. They need a franchise face.

McShay: When you can draft a franchise QB, you do it. People say Quinn can't win the big game. They said that about Peyton, too.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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It's not only me about Sheehan going off the deep end.  Need the old Sheehan back. :ols:  I used to say Sheehan and Galdi were the best but with an edge towards Sheehan.  i'd go Galdi now #1.  Galdi is at least balanced.  If there is any news article or some dude who rips the team, you know Sheehan is getting him on his show or will do a feature about the article.  And when he gets them on his show he likes to lead them into the negative narrative.  Galdi is the reverse.  He doesn't ignore the negative but if there is some dude who touts the team, Wentz, whatever he seems to go out of his way to get him on his podcast.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

This sounds like a defense of TH? TH checks off several of the boxes where you list traits of a good NFL QB....most notably he won games against better QB's all with a depleted offense because he's a competitor and good leader. Well done, good to see you are coming around and that there's more to QB play than just arm strength. 

This post is exactly why everyone gets mad at the Heini Holers. Nobody was talking about anything that has to do with a decent career back up that everyone knows who he is and yet you still drop in just to bring him up. This is why people get annoyed and bash him.

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5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kiper said years ago he was so sure Clausen would be a good Qb that he's quit if he ended up wrong. 

Last I checked he didn't quit.

 

I think of all the ****amamie theories I've seen on this board, and there have been many, with folks who have a hard-on for some particular player or philosophy, the theory you can project what a draft class can be ahead of it's year has to be the most crazy, ill-advised, simply wrong and fraught with error I have ever seen.

 

The simple fact is teams screw up the CURRENT draft year so much, looking a year out, if it's not completely meaningless, then it's close.  It's like looking at the weather report a month out.  I mean, I guess if you lived in the North Pole, you could do that.  "Cold, with a chance of snow."  But if you lived in/around DC, the weather people predict the past pretty well. They mostly get "today" somewhat close to right.  The extended forecast? Total bull****.  They have no idea what's going to happen in 7 days.  Somebody is spinning a wheel of fortune style wheel at the National Weather Service and making a guess.  It's the same with the draft.  Predicting this year is really hard.  Predicting next year is impossible.  Making a franchise defining decision based on that analysis is lunacy.  

 

Sure, I guess you can project that there will be 3 or 4 guys who should be at the top of the class, and they might still be good prospects.  

 

But you have really no idea if:

a) they're going to remain there

b) if they are going to fall out

c) if somebody else will come from nowhere

d) even if they do get there, they will be any good in the NFL.

 

Mel, who again, I like, and invented this cottage industry, has been LOUD WRONG on so many QBs through the years.  The reason I like Mel is his willingness to BE loud wrong.  Sometimes he'll get it right too.  I have no idea what his ratio of right to wrong is, but it doesn't matter. That's basically all luck.   Because his opinion is meaningless, he's just there for theater.  I also like that he has a photographic memory, if you say a name, he can immediately tell you everything he knows about the guy.  He's wicked smart.  Terrible hair, but that's part of the appeal.  In fact, I find the fact he has softened over the years, like he really doesn't want to offend anybody anymore, he is losing appeal.  I liked the feisty, arrogant, self righteous Mel.  This kinder, gentler version is less appealing.  

 

Let's just do a little "you don't know what you don't know" exercise:

 

At Ohio State, Dwayne Haskins (RIP) red-shirted in 2016, played in 8 games in 2017, limited action.  Played pretty well, but very limited action.  Nobody could have predicted the 2018 season which was upcoming from Haskins, where he threw for 4,800 yards, 50 TDs, 8 INTs, completion percentage of of 70%.  It was one of the best QB seasons in college football history.  

 

If you looked 2 years out, there's not way after the 2016 season you would have put Haskins into a first round conversation in 2019.  You might not even put him in a second or third round conversation, because the sample size was so small.

 

Then his 2018 season happens.  There were some pundits who thought he should have been the first QB off the board because of his physical traits and record.  There are others that thought he was SO raw because of his lack of experience, he was more of a second round guy. Even the year of his draft, his placement was all over the map.  

 

Forget what Snyder did.  There's a really good chance Haskins goes in the first round at some point, even if we didn't pick him.  There were 17 picks in the first round after ours. I think there's a very, very good chance, with his Ohio State pedigree, his season and physical skills, somebody takes him in the first.

 

Now look at Fields.  He looked really good his first year starting in 2019, 2020 was the COVID year.  He went at #9 to the Bears.  Which seemed about right.  However, when he got to the NFL, he did nothing to immediately show he was a top-flight prospect.  He still might.  But not yet. But the 2 year look-ahead for Fields was actually about right.  

 

Burrow:  Joe Burrow played sparingly at Ohio State his first 2 years.  Then he was beaten out for the job in 2018 by Dwayne Haskins.  (Again, Haskins went on to have a phenomenal 2018 season.) 

 

Burrow transferred to LSU.  His 2018 season was totally ho-hum.  57% completion percentage, 2800 yards, 16 TDs, 5 INTs. Somebody can go back and look, but I doubt Burrow, after 2018, was projected higher than the 4th round.  He had lost the Ohio State job to Haskins, and then had a "meh" season at LSU. He's a good athlete, but nothing truly spectacular.

 

Then in 2019, he toasts the competition.  5600 yards.  60 (60!) TDs.  6 INTs.  70% completion percentage.  Undefeated national champion.  

 

Goes #1 overall.  There isn't a person alive who isn't Joe Burrow, his mom, dad or girlfriend who thought that was going to happen in January of 2018, after LSU's season was over.  Maybe not even his girlfriend.  Hell, maybe not even Joe.  

 

All this to say, it's absolutely impossible to predict 2 years out.  Some years a "way too early" look will be closer than other years. Others it will be completely off. And it's impossible to know which is going to happen what year.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am hoping all this hype jinxes them.  I genuinely would feel the same if this team got the hype, instead.  This stuff often ends up a curse. 

 

 

 

I was just watching a video of Slay and Smith practicing together. Now they'll also have AJ and Bradberry doing the same. They replaced Cox and Kelce, even though their both still on the team, added White, Riddick and Dean to their front 7.

 

Eagles are the team to beat even if Hurts doesn't take a step. They're gonna be really good.

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I love all the Eagles hype. Bradbury's best days are behind him and the dude they drafted, Davis, is a lazy fat guy. AJ Brown is solid and Reddick is a good player- big deal!

Despite their moves, I really don't see them being much better, if at all.

 

At the end of the day, Jalen Hurts is their QB. Yeah, he's had a few good games here and there, but he has stunk up the joint in a bunch of games. The more he puts on film, the more he's going to struggle because DC's now have a really good idea how to defend him. If anyone is bored, pop in the tape of Philly's playoff game against TB- that's the real Jalen Hurts.

 

They took away his running and made him into a one dimensional pocket passer and boy was it ugly! I would imagine that's what D's are going to do to him moving forward and I'll be surprised if he lasts the season as Philly's starter. 

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17 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

I love all the Eagles hype. Bradbury's best days are behind him and the dude they drafted, Davis, is a lazy fat guy. AJ Brown is solid and Reddick is a good player- big deal!

Despite their moves, I really don't see them being much better, if at all.

 

At the end of the day, Jalen Hurts is their QB. Yeah, he's had a few good games here and there, but he has stunk up the joint in a bunch of games. The more he puts on film, the more he's going to struggle because DC's now have a really good idea how to defend him. If anyone is bored, pop in the tape of Philly's playoff game against TB- that's the real Jalen Hurts.

 

They took away his running and made him into a one dimensional pocket passer and boy was it ugly! I would imagine that's what D's are going to do to him moving forward and I'll be surprised if he lasts the season as Philly's starter. 

 

Come on man.  Don't slander AJ Brown & Hassan Reddick like that.  AJ Brown is a legit Top 5 WR in the league, and Hassan Reddick is better than any Linebacker on our team times a dozen.  The Eagles are getting hyped, but it is deserved in this case, because they have the best roster in the division hands down.  The only question mark currently is the QB position, but Hurts playing just solid (not even good) can get that team to 11 wins, which should easily win this division.  If Hurts does not impress this upcoming season, then the Eagles have the ammo to trade up and select a QB in a loaded draft class  They have 4 picks in the top 60 next year.  They're well suited to be a legitimate contender for the foreseeable future.

 

We, on the other hand had a subpar offseason to say the very least.  Not many people like the Wentz trade (can't say I'm one of them either), and we're dragging out feet for some unknown reason trying to sign T-Mac to an extension.  Our offseason wasn't very impressive, and I don't think we'll win the division next year.  We might be fighting for a wild card, but that's being generous.  No one knows what we're trying to do exactly with this front office, and to be frank, Rivera and Co. don't get the benefit of the doubt.  I'm not impressed with this FO, and I have a feeling that the NFL world feels the same.  Year 3 better be a success, or Ron & crew should be out.

Edited by samy316
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Are we really complaining about the draft pick of Howell? He is a 5th round pick. Who cares?  Typically 5th round picks are usually meh but if he turns out to be something, then it was a good pick. 31 other teams found passed over him numerous rounds before we picked him. 
 

With that said, I like the fact that he played 3 full seasons in college. I believe qbs who only have one or two years under their belt usually turn out to be a flash in the pants and can’t acclimate to the NFL well. I also like the adversity he faced last year where he lost so many skilled players from the year before. Last I like that he played under Mack Brown who I respect more than other college coaches. 

 

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1 hour ago, samy316 said:

 

Come on man.  Don't slander AJ Brown & Hassan Reddick like that.  AJ Brown is a legit Top 5 WR in the league, and Hassan Reddick is better than any Linebacker on our team times a dozen.  The Eagles are getting hyped, but it is deserved in this case, because they have the best roster in the division hands down.  The only question mark currently is the QB position, but Hurts playing just solid (not even good) can get that team to 11 wins, which should easily win this division.  If Hurts does not impress this upcoming season, then the Eagles have the ammo to trade up and select a QB in a loaded draft class  They have 4 picks in the top 60 next year.  They're well suited to be a legitimate contender for the foreseeable future.

 

We, on the other hand had a subpar offseason to say the very least.  Not many people like the Wentz trade (can't say I'm one of them either), and we're dragging out feet for some unknown reason trying to sign T-Mac to an extension.  Our offseason wasn't very impressive, and I don't think we'll win the division next year.  We might be fighting for a wild card, but that's being generous.  No one knows what we're trying to do exactly with this front office, and to be frank, Rivera and Co. don't get the benefit of the doubt.  I'm not impressed with this FO, and I have a feeling that the NFL world feels the same.  Year 3 better be a success, or Ron & crew should be out.

Okay, all good points. But my point is that they really don't concern me as much as they do most people. They beat us in our first match-up last year when we were decimated by COVID and injuries- including us having to play QB that got to us a few days before the game. We had them beat in our 2nd game, but blew it in the 4th quarter.

 

I know we haven't made many moves, but I do think we're improved. Our QB situation alone should = a few more wins than last year and getting some guys back on offense will help as well. Playing without Thomas and McKissic down the stretch last year buried us. The gap between us and Philly is not big, in my opinion. What Philly might or might not do in the upcoming drafts was not a thought I had in my post. I'm strictly talking about this upcoming season.

Edited by fearlessNelms
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On 5/18/2022 at 12:23 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

I will say too much love can sometimes jinx a team.  Eagles seem to be the darling of the off season and the national media.    Winning the divison already a forgone conclusion to some of them, I am waiting for the slam dunk SB winner talk coming. :ols:

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I will say too much love can sometimes jinx a team."

 

This is especially true for young teams that don't understand that there is no automatic carryover from one season to the next.

 

Every year is a new campaign and the sacrifice it takes to prevail only becomes more challenging the more often one wins.

 

Praise in all but the most driven humans naturally fosters a sense of complacency, comfort and acceptance.

 

It is more often than not the internal quest to prove one's essential worth and not the external praise for being worthy that fuels a champion's spirit to endure the brutal crucible of the eternal arena.

 

 

Edited by CommanderInTheRye
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