Next Day Thread: Dallas and their Benches vs. WFT

[hail2skins]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

McCarthy is legit one of the worst coaches in the league. He rode Rodgers coattails for a decade and is now riding on Dak's.

I always wondered if Packers fans were too tough on him, much like Steelers fan seem to be with Tomlin. But his time so far in Dallas hasn't really impressed. I don't think he's much of, if at all, an upgrade from Jason Garrett.

[NickyJ]

50 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Playcalling is a popular thing to criticize but a coach can only call plays based on the personnel he has and the matchups that are being provided to him. The Cowboys brought a lot of pressure and played tight press man. Our receivers couldn't win matchups and get open consistently. We tried a screen and it got picked. We tried running it and averaged like 1 YPC on 1st downs.

To quote a famous Redskins philosopher's Instagram post:

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by NickyJ

[MrJL]

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Sure do hope TH is healthy too! He is a warrior out there, one that got bloodied bad yesterday

I don't think Cosmi is eligible to come off the 21 list until next week

 

Cosmi went on IR on Nov 29.  Assuming that day counts Dec 19th is 21 days exactly and it's also three weeks of NFL games, Seattle, Las Vegas and Dallas.  So, no practice but probably technically available

[KDawg]

29 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

To quote a famous Redskins philosopher's Instagram post:

 

Who is that? 

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Who is that? 

DeSean Jackson. I think he said that in 2014. 

[88Comrade2000]

I erase this game and the one in 2 weeks from my memory. I expect a similar result in 2 weeks. This season rests on how we do against Philly and New York.

1 hour ago, hail2skins said:

I always wondered if Packers fans were too tough on him, much like Steelers fan seem to be with Tomlin. But his time so far in Dallas hasn't really impressed. I don't think he's much of, if at all, an upgrade from Jason Garrett.

Kellen Moore will be the eventual coach in Dallas.

[PlayAction]

18 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

Cosmi went on IR on Nov 29.  Assuming that day counts Dec 19th is 21 days exactly and it's also three weeks of NFL games, Seattle, Las Vegas and Dallas.  So, no practice but probably technically available

 

Any critiques of the individual performance for the OL?  I can't keep track of who was playing where anymore.  Even a mobile QB like Heinecke couldn't evade the pressure.  I know that Ismael is the 4th string Center but he was getting bulldozed and I think he was the one that fell onto Heinecke.  Did S. Charles play?  If so, where?  I hope Cosmi can come back soon so that the OL juggling can slow down.

 

I agree with other posters that putting too heavy a workload on Gibson is leading to reduced output.  Hopefully, McKissic comes back soon and other RBs can pick up the load.  Fumbling is correctable so i'm not down on Gibson. 

 

It's interesting to see which WRs have chemistry with the different QBs.  Cam Sims seemed to step up when Heinecke went down but I think he should always be viewed as a 4th or 5th WR.  I had high hopes for the rookie WR but I can't think of his name.  That says a lot.  It's not uncommon for rookie WRs to struggle with the transition but I hope it's just temporary.    

 

    

[Dan T.]

This should have been 15...

 

 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Playcalling is a popular thing to criticize but a coach can only call plays based on the personnel he has and the matchups that are being provided to him. The Cowboys brought a lot of pressure and played tight press man. Our receivers couldn't win matchups and get open consistently. We tried a screen and it got picked. We tried running it and averaged like 1 YPC on 1st downs.

Isn’t conventional wisdom that you run pick plays all day vs man?  Can also run short option routes to take advantage of defensive leverage.  Guys with good burst - Humphries, Carter, Samuel and McLaurin - would be great options there.  To your point though, not having Thomas and McKissick - two guys that are often mismatches for defenders - really hurt.

 

I was a little bothered by the fact Allen came in and his 1st play was a designed qb run for a 1st.  Turner did call some of the things coaches typically dial up to alleviate a pass rush, like screen plays (which we have not been very successful with) and PA passes, but I didn’t feel like he did a very good job overall (even with the personnel limitations).  

[MrJL]

29 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

This should have been 15...

 

 

 

I agree.  I can only assume that the official considers it to be plant leg only and since he basically contacted his entire body he couldn't be said to just get the plant leg

[Ball Security]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

I do find it interesting that people say they don't see it with Patterson but seem to think Gibson has played well. 

 

Patterson is 3.6 yards per carry (not good). GIbson is 3.9 yards per carry (not good). I think Gibson's issue is mostly usage % related. But still. Interesting paradox. 

If 3.9 ypc is not good, do you find N. Harris and his 3.7 ypc disappointing or should we still have used our first pick on him?

35 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

Any critiques of the individual performance for the OL?  I can't keep track of who was playing where anymore.  Even a mobile QB like Heinecke couldn't evade the pressure.  I know that Ismael is the 4th string Center but he was getting bulldozed and I think he was the one that fell onto Heinecke.  Did S. Charles play?  If so, where?  I hope Cosmi can come back soon so that the OL juggling can slow down.

 

I agree with other posters that putting too heavy a workload on Gibson is leading to reduced output.  Hopefully, McKissic comes back soon and other RBs can pick up the load.  Fumbling is correctable so i'm not down on Gibson. 

 

It's interesting to see which WRs have chemistry with the different QBs.  Cam Sims seemed to step up when Heinecke went down but I think he should always be viewed as a 4th or 5th WR.  I had high hopes for the rookie WR but I can't think of his name.  That says a lot.  It's not uncommon for rookie WRs to struggle with the transition but I hope it's just temporary.    

 

    

Charles played a little LT when Leno was out.  But I don’t think it was too many.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

If 3.9 ypc is not good, do you find N. Harris and his 3.7 ypc disappointing or should we still have used our first pick on him?

 

It is disappointing. I think he's more cut out for the workload, though. So yes, I'd have still taken him. 

 

But really I would have traded up for Fields... or Mac Jones. But probably Fields. 

[MrJL]

33 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

Any critiques of the individual performance for the OL?  I can't keep track of who was playing where anymore.  Even a mobile QB like Heinecke couldn't evade the pressure.  I know that Ismael is the 4th string Center but he was getting bulldozed and I think he was the one that fell onto Heinecke.  Did S. Charles play?  If so, where?  I hope Cosmi can come back soon so that the OL juggling can slow down.

 

    

 

I'm afraid I'n not enough of an expert to tell.  I think Larsen might have been playing hurt cause the OL didn't really seem to have much push up the middle.  I can tell you that it was not Ismael who got pushed into Heinicke, cause Larsen got hurt by being pushed back into Heinike.  They talked about the cart coming out for him as Heinike was limping off.  Charles played at LT for Leno

[Inigo Montoya]

Taylor throwing into triple, quadruple and worse coverage was mind boggling. Watching Aaron Rodgers last night, he gets pressure and throws a hot route, evert ****ing time. Why cant we do that? 

I wanted N Harris in the first, Davis is just ok. and I dont like Gibson, I dont like his attitude, I dont think he's anything special and when they show him in the top 5 in the NFL for yards its because we are literally running more than anyone and most of those dudes have had injuries (Henry, Cook, etc. If we want to play ball control offense, we had better have a McKissic, Gibson and N Harris type of backfield. 

McLaurin and Samuel ( plus our other receivers) havent beaten man coverage in forever... thats a real problem 

 

We totally wasted a great def effort with 4th string DEs in there. 

 

Hopefully that was a hiccup and not foreshadowing for the last 4 games, 'cause I cant handle it 

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Taylor throwing into triple, quadruple and worse coverage was mind boggling. Watching Aaron Rodgers last night, he gets pressure and throws a hot route, evert ****ing time. Why cant we do that?

Are you asking why our UDFA career backup QB can't play as good as a future HOF-er?

[DEASkins]

6 hours ago, fearlessNelms said:

What really pisses me off about this loss is how McCarthy guaranteed a win- basically unheard of out of a coaches mouth and how Dallas brought in their own benches as an @#$% you and we let them make good on it. Usually when stuff like that happens, the team that talks ends up looking like fools after they get beat down. The Raiders had a team gathering on the Chiefs logo at midfield yesterday before the game and the Chiefs said that was major motivation for the whoopin' they put on the Raiders. 

 

We got chumped and I hope we're pissed about it. 

The entire Dallas organization punked us. It started with their owner bringing in their own benches, their coach guaranteeing a victory, their fans outnumbering ours, the Dallas front seven manhandling our O line and the overall contempt and lack of respect for Wash having any chance of winning the game. Dallas was leaving 10-15 seconds left on the play clock in the 2nd half at times. That's flat out an F you and punk job. Washington better kick their ass in 2 weeks and reclaim their manhood

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, DEASkins said:

The entire Dallas organization punked us. It started with their owner bringing in their own benches, their coach guaranteeing a victory, their fans outnumbering ours, the Dallas front seven manhandling our O line and the overall contempt and lack of respect for Wash having any chance of winning the game. Dallas was leaving 10-15 seconds left on the play clock in the 2nd half at times. That's flat out an F you and punk job. Washington better kick their ass in 2 weeks and reclaim their manhood

How do you propose we do that without getting better players? You think the Chiefs will lend us Mahomes and the Saints lend us Kamara and the Cardinals lend us Hopkins etc. etc.?

[Inigo Montoya]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Are you asking why our UDFA career backup QB can't play as good as a future HOF-er?

Clearly not. I'm no idiot, been here a long time and I coach football.

 

Why aren't we simplifying the game for Taylor when there's the kind of pass rush we saw yesterday , or is he doing it to himself? I'll never understand why we continued to have him sit in the pocket and get blasted all day. Move the pocket, quick passing game, hot route to a back or TE... I dont get it

 

I remembered why I hardly post after reading this and all of your other smart ass replies... tough loss after high hopes yesterday I guess. I'll go back to reading and searching for answers after another letdown. 

[dyst]

Micah Parsons - teams really should gameplan against him, that way he could be contained like Chase. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by dyst

[MrJL]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

How do you propose we do that without getting better players? You think the Chiefs will lend us Mahomes and the Saints lend us Kamara and the Cardinals lend us Hopkins etc. etc.?

 

we beat Dallas twice last year and there's only two significantly different players on their roster right now.  Unfortunately we are a bit depleted but maybe we'll have some better players back

[dyst]

15 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Taylor throwing into triple, quadruple and worse coverage was mind boggling. Watching Aaron Rodgers last night, he gets pressure and throws a hot route, evert ****ing time. Why cant we do that? 

I wanted N Harris in the first, Davis is just ok. and I dont like Gibson, I dont like his attitude, I dont think he's anything special and when they show him in the top 5 in the NFL for yards its because we are literally running more than anyone and most of those dudes have had injuries (Henry, Cook, etc. If we want to play ball control offense, we had better have a McKissic, Gibson and N Harris type of backfield. 

McLaurin and Samuel ( plus our other receivers) havent beaten man coverage in forever... thats a real problem 

 

We totally wasted a great def effort with 4th string DEs in there. 

 

Hopefully that was a hiccup and not foreshadowing for the last 4 games, 'cause I cant handle it 

We still have major issues drafting elite talent. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I'm going to start with the defense.  Given the situation they were put in, I think they played extraordinarily well.  Given both the injury/COVID situation it was put into, when you look at the overall defensive performance, I think it was solid.  Was it perfect?  No.  But I also don't think you can expect it to be perfect in the situation it was put in.

 

Special kudos to:

Curl, who is everywhere, and is clearly a "core" player they need to build around

Fuller, who has had as much of a "lightswitch" season as I have seen, going from "off" for 6 game to "on" for 5 games

L. Collins, who in his new role, has become the impact player we pay him to be.

Holcomb, who is inconsistent at times, but plays a ton, and rarely makes big boo-boos.  And does (and did) in this game make some really good plays.

Allen, who really should have been the defensive captain over Chase.  He is the leader they should be following.  

Jack, who gets a lot of credit for coordinating this assembly of mis-matched toys into a solid group. 

 

I didn't see JDavis at all on Sunday, so I don't know if he even played.  If he did, then I don't think he made an impact.   

 

Now to the offense.  The offense was offensive for most of the game.  

 

If I was creating a "Blame Pie Chart" I would go:  (This is based on advanced stats, multiple re-watches of the tape, is extremely scientific, and cannot every be argued with.)  

TH: 34%

Scott Turner 26%

OL 20%

Skill Position Players (WR/TE/RBs) 20%.

 

TH had just ab absolutely horrendous game.  It was mostly his decision making.  He only had the 1 pick and the 1 fumble.  However, he struggled to complete anything, he was late, he got flustered, and kept double/triple clutching on his throws, which made them late.  He also didn't have the arm strength to get the ball out to Terry a couple of times who was open deep, but Terry had to turn around and come back for a 50-50 ball.  Which should have been a wide-open play.

 

What became clear is in order for TH to win, so far, there has been exactly one way for it to happen:  The team has to run the living hell out of the ball, and he has to be exceptional on 3rd downs. If the run is taken away, he is not going to be able to consistently overcome that.  They don't attack down-field on second down and medium because they always want to make sure they just pick up the first down, an keep the train moving.  They run as much as they do on first down to try (often unsuccessfully) to get to at lease 2nd and 6, where they feel comfortable picking up a 3rd and short.  

 

Dallas figured this out.  They stopped the run and pressured the receivers, and the whole thing fell apart.  I'd be willing to bet the Eagles will try it next week.  

 

Now, what would be a real feather in TH's cap if he can prove otherwise, but I'm not sure he can.

 

Scott Turner: I'm going to keep this brief.  I like Scott, I think in general there is a lot to like.  This wasn't one of his better games, even in just adjusting to the constant rush.  Using something creative, getting the ball out to playmakers in space, fly-sweeps, moving the pocket, going max-protect, whatever.  It didn't seem like he really adjusted well to what Dallas was doing.  They kept doing the same thing with the same results, which were bad.  At one point in the second quarter they had a net of 15 yards.  It was B-A-D.

 

OL: It's tough to complain when you are playing your 3rd string center, your second string RT, and then your center gets hurt, your LT gets hurt, I mean, it's tough.  but the OL really had no answer for the Dallas front 7.  Again, I think TH didn't help them, nor did Turner.  But they also got whipped 1:1 enough that they get part of the blame chart.

 

Skill position players:

Gibson needs to get no more than 10-15 touches a game, preferably 10 runs and 5 catches.  

They need another RB.  For now, it's Patterson.  

When McKissic comes back, he should also get 10-15 touches a game, similar distribution.

McLaurin needs 5-10 touches, so you're looking at 7-12 targets.

Hump needs 3-5 touches

Samuel needs 5-7 touches.

 

That's what the distribution for this group should be.  Gibson has to stop fumbling.  Reducing his workload might help that.  

 

Carter needs to catch the deep ball.  That was devistating.  

 

I like what Hump is doing.  

 

That's all I got. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Clearly not. I'm no idiot, been here a long time and I coach football.

 

Why aren't we simplifying the game for Taylor when there's the kind of pass rush we saw yesterday , or is he doing it to himself? I'll never understand why we continued to have him sit in the pocket and get blasted all day. Move the pocket, quick passing game, hot route to a back or TE... I dont get it

 

I remembered why I hardly post after reading this and all of your other smart ass replies... tough loss after high hopes yesterday I guess. I'll go back to reading and searching for answers after another letdown. 

This is the same old song and dance every week we lose though.  Every time we lose the OC was supposed to simplify the game for Taylor, and every time we lose the All 22 shows there was plenty out there to be had and it just didn't happen.  As a coach, you should know how hard it is to game plan your beat up, short handed, less talented team to win a ball game.

[zCommander]

What set the tone of the entire game was when we get the INT in the 1st QT and then two plays later we give it right back to them with our own INT. At this point they were only up by 3 and we didn't give ourselves any chance to respond back with our own points. 

 

TH was rattled early and stayed like that for the 1st half. Getting banged up didn't help either. 

 

Was hoping to Sammy taking over the TE role a little bit yesterday but understand for right now he is on special teams but it wouldn't have hurt to put him in to pass block since he looks like a beast. 

 

I wanted us to win but knew it was a tall order. Just win the next 4 games. 

[Inigo Montoya]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is the same old song and dance every week we lose though.  Every time we lose the OC was supposed to simplify the game for Taylor, and every time we lose the All 22 shows there was plenty out there to be had and it just didn't happen.  As a coach, you should know how hard it is to game plan your beat up, short handed, less talented team to win a ball game.

 

It is, thats right.

though I didnt go into yesterday thinking our O was "that" beat up. Missing Thomas and McKissic at the start, plus some O Line injuries that we've played through during this stretch. Add what should be a healthier 30mil receiver and I had hopes of some offensive output yesterday. The late injuries to T Mac and Larsen, and Heine arent what I'm talking about. Dallas' D really got a lot healthier at the wrong time for us, you can see things like the screen game where it's just one assignment or missed cut block away from something big. Everything went wrong yesterday and we still had a shot. This one stings