Next Day Thread: WFT Jedi Mind Tricks the Evil Empire (No, not the Yankees, the Raiders)

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 hours ago, duffy said:

It's truly a shame the defense hasn't lived up to the preseason hype. I think the offense can be good enough to move the ball and get enough points including those with our 4th kicker. Now imagine that coupled with a top 5 defense and you have a legit contender. Maybe we get that next year? 

I would chalk up this 4 game winning streak primarily to the defensive performance.  Yes, we've ran the ball well on offense and limited mistakes - credit for that.  But the primary reason we have 4 W's is the defense playing much, much better than they did early in the season.  I'm sure part of that is on the offense running the ball effectively and keeping the ball out of the opposition's hands as well.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Good post and I generally agree. My only real issue with Turner is not utilizing Gibson more as a receiver and trying to use him as a grinder/powerback a bit too much. And sometimes we fall in love with that shotgun draw play. But that's a bit nitpicky and as you said every playcaller in the league has some WTF moments.

 

 

 

I've complained specficially to Gibson as for not using him more in the passing game.  As for the grinder part -- they don't really have a dude who can play that role and they can't for example lets say have the RB run outside zone all the time, gets a bit predictable, so someone has to run inside (A-B gap) from time to time.  I think this team needs that type of runner -- a N. Harris type to complement the RBs we got.   

 

Also I don't like it when Turner just keeps riding Gibson at times on consecutive plays until he gets stopped.  That's something his dad would do at times, too.  Old school football, we will stop running down your throat until you stop us, etc.  But the problem with that is Gibson eventually wears down and some of his fumbles have happened after that -- in particular the fumble against the Chargers after Gibson was running non-stop it seemed. 

 

But I'll say Turner does Gibson plenty of favors, too.  All the misdirection is really confusing, so some of the defenders assigned to stop the run have to readjust their positioning and by the time they do Gibson already has 3 yards, etc. 

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 

You're absolutely right. Sweat and Young are nowhere near Crosby's level. But Crosby might legit be the third best DE in the league(I'd only put Watt and Garrett above him and its close).

 

Yeah I was blown away by him.  I don't think the Raiders overall looked too hot on Sunday -- it felt at times that he alone was helping make this a game.   He was unbelievable.  It was play after play after play. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

Humphries is such a slick route runner.  Like a very poor man's Doug Baldwin.  He's a fun player but you can never use him as a workhorse at his size.

 

Toohill really sucked on Sunday.  He got no pressure, made zero impact against the run, and committed a costly penalty.  We're struggling to get pressure from outside and we're missing Sweat and Young, and this is not something that will get better without them coming back.

 

Io was not good either.  Very limited impact and he blew a fit so bad late in the game that Jacobs had a massive crease to run through.  I guess he was thinking pass and got funneled right into the wrong gap.  He doesn't look like the player he used to be.  It feels like the bottom is falling out on our IDL depth even as our top two guys are entering their prime.  And it'll be worse when Settle walks to get a starting job.  This is something we need to address in the draft or in free agency.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Toohill really sucked on Sunday.  He got no pressure, made zero impact against the run, and committed a costly penalty.

 

I think it was Toohill at fault on a play that made Jamin Davis look bad.  Davis was filling his run fit, and would've hit Jacobs behind the LoS.  But Toohill lost contain, Jacobs saw Davis and bounced to the Edge and picked up an easy chunk.  If Toohill had contain, Jacobs can't bounce, and Davis makes a good play.  But from the replay it looks like Davis just had a bad angle.  I'd rather Davis stays aggressive if his read says that's the hole Jacobs should be going through.  Make the play you're supposed to and trust your teammates to do what they're supposed to.

 

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

We're struggling to get pressure from outside and we're missing Sweat and Young, and this is not something that will get better without them coming back.

 

I think we're all so curious what Sweat does when he comes back.  Same old before the injuries?  Does he collapse the edge better?  How's his run defense?  He should be another boost that lets our LB group play faster.  I hope he is that.

[PolarExpress]

9 hours ago, duffy said:

It's truly a shame the defense hasn't lived up to the preseason hype. I think the offense can be good enough to move the ball and get enough points including those with our 4th kicker. Now imagine that coupled with a top 5 defense and you have a legit contender. Maybe we get that next year? 

Did you watch the game?  The defense is the reason we won.  The offense was sluggish.  Both units working together would make us a much better team.

[skinny21]

10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Humphries is such a slick route runner.  Like a very poor man's Doug Baldwin.  He's a fun player but you can never use him as a workhorse at his size.

 

Toohill really sucked on Sunday.  He got no pressure, made zero impact against the run, and committed a costly penalty.  We're struggling to get pressure from outside and we're missing Sweat and Young, and this is not something that will get better without them coming back.

 

Io was not good either.  Very limited impact and he blew a fit so bad late in the game that Jacobs had a massive crease to run through.  I guess he was thinking pass and got funneled right into the wrong gap.  He doesn't look like the player he used to be.  It feels like the bottom is falling out on our IDL depth even as our top two guys are entering their prime.  And it'll be worse when Settle walks to get a starting job.  This is something we need to address in the draft or in free agency.

That’s interesting, ‘cause Logan Paulson had Io as his man of the the match, though that was without the benefit of a re-watch.  Drew a holding penalty and had 1 of the 2 sacks.

[method man]

52 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Humphries is such a slick route runner.  Like a very poor man's Doug Baldwin.  He's a fun player but you can never use him as a workhorse at his size.

 

Toohill really sucked on Sunday.  He got no pressure, made zero impact against the run, and committed a costly penalty.  We're struggling to get pressure from outside and we're missing Sweat and Young, and this is not something that will get better without them coming back.

 

Io was not good either.  Very limited impact and he blew a fit so bad late in the game that Jacobs had a massive crease to run through.  I guess he was thinking pass and got funneled right into the wrong gap.  He doesn't look like the player he used to be.  It feels like the bottom is falling out on our IDL depth even as our top two guys are entering their prime.  And it'll be worse when Settle walks to get a starting job.  This is something we need to address in the draft or in free agency.

Good call on Io. Noticing the same thing with him too. The guy has been banged up over his career. The biceps injury did him no favors. He is a good backup at this point. They definitely need to draft a DT or two to rebuild the depth for the future

[Skinsinparadise]

PFF for the whole season thus far...

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I did mention I typically trust my eyes more in a live game versus on TV as for Qb arm strength.  I've seen Heinicke in camp too so that wasn't my first rodeo watching him. 

 

I am cool with all the superlatives people throw at Heinicke but at the same time I am not bending on the arm strength.  IMO he doesn't have it.  I watched Kyle Allen and Heinicke throw before the game close to my seats.  Allen actually has an NFL arm, he doesn't have a rocket but he has enough zip from what I saw.   I mentioned during the game day thread that a Raiders fan sitting behind me -- kept going Heinicke can move but he can't throw.  And he's a dink and dunk QB.  Personally, I think that's hyperbole.  But Heinicke's arm strength IMO will likely limit him from ever being a franchise type Qb. 

 

But I do think he's a bonafide NFL QB -- love the moxie and his clutch gene.  But I am not in the we got our QB of the future so lets throw away the key and relax group.   And the atmosphere at the game was so loud and hostile that I was impressed with his composure.  The PA doesn't shut up there.  They are constantly egging on their fans to pour on the noise.  Just about every third down.  They got different bands playing during the breaks from different points in the stadium.  They got a dude banging the drums.  It's non-stop noise and energy in that stadium.  It felt almost like that Living in America scene from Rocky 4 -- going on at different times during the game.  So I'll give Heinicke and the whole team props -- for dealing with all of that.  I've never seen such a relentless show coming from the PA at a game.  It fit the vibe of the city. 

 

As far as Derrick Carr went.  Wow, that deep ball that he threw in that last drive, went so far, and with so much velocity, I didn't know his arm was that good.    But the defense was set for the deep ball and that obviously frustrated him.  Desean was coming in and out of the game.  It was clear he wasn't 100%.  They seem to use him mostly as a decoy.  My eyes were glued to Desean every time he was in the game.  But the ball usually went in the opposite direction.  Our corners though respected Desean they gave him a nice cushion -- off coverage. 

 

I watched the LBs some.  Holcomb plays like his hair is on fire, but he also often seems a beat behind the play.  Also, he needs to look back for the ball when he's in coverage. 

 

Jamin Davis needs to stop lunging with his tackles.  They got to fix his technique IMO.  He had a really nice tackle when he hit the player squarely in the waist.  I hope he learns from it.  But he often seems to love to try to take a player down by his ankles but because he's aiming so low unless he really gets a firm grasp of the player's ankle, he either whiffs on the tackle or the offensive player breaks loose. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

I've seen enough, I'll say it.

 

O-line play continues to be downright elite in pass pro. No other word for it at this point. Top 3 in win rate and grade.

Its not a hot streak or an anomaly. They are simply an elite unit, even in the wake of injuries

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by FootballZombie

[Warhead36]

It is funny how the best OLs tend to have the best QBs...

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

It is funny how the best OLs tend to have the best QBs...

 

Yeah that's a feather in Heinicke's cap, bc I thought the OL was pretty porous in pass pro against LV. I mean, that was to be expected with all the injuries and going against Crosby & Co, but Taylor was really under pressure a lot.

[kingdaddy]

23 hours ago, markmills67 said:

So proud of the way we have played in this 4 game winning streak, Heinicke and his low round picks and journeymen coming up trumps again. And also a massive shout out to Allen, Payne and Loannidis, we have to keep these 3 DT together full stop. 

 

Also in my opinion, for our Skins to win against the Cowboys I think we'll need to score at least 27 points, I'm hopeful but this weekend is going to be very, very hard to get a win. 

 

Bus here's hoping 🙏🙏🙏🙏

 

HTTR 

I think RR is geeked up for Dallas this week and I think he's gonna have the men ready to roll....I expect to see some new stuff this week on offense too. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

I've seen enough, I'll say it.

 

O-line play continues to be downright elite in pass pro. No other word for it at this point. Top 3 in win rate and grade.

Its not a hot streak or an anomaly. They are simply an elite unit, even in the wake of injuries

 

 

They typically are very good in pass pro.  Didn't feel that way last game though, they couldn't contain Crosby from my eyes.  But generally this O line is something to build on.

 

They've killed it on some of their moves on that front.  Leno. Schweitzer.  Flowers. Lucas.  Brilliant. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

I think RR is geeked up for Dallas this week and I think he's gonna have the men ready to roll....I expect to see some new stuff this week on offense too. 

Low key, I think he's playing a Jedi mind trick trying to conserve the playbook until then. Like they're afraid of Gibson right now but Heinicke is his secret weapon that he may unleash just to make them mad. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Going through some clips, just wanna say that Ionnidas had a nice game.

[JSSkinz]

I think I'm most impressed by the coaching staff.  This is a team full of misfits and throwaways with a small handful of true impactful talent but once again Ron and the crew have found a way to coach this team into believing they can do great things.

 

This is what coaching is all about.

Hail!

[kingdaddy]

14 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I think I'm most impressed by the coaching staff.  This is a team full of misfits and throwaways with a small handful of true impactful talent but once again Ron and the crew have found a way to coach this team into believing they can do great things.

 

This is what coaching is all about.

Hail!

If we can beat Dallas this week the heat will really be on them because they're gonna feel our boots all over their ass. A win this week and we can start thinking bigger things...lets get it.

[The Rook]

3 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Yeah that's a feather in Heinicke's cap, bc I thought the OL was pretty porous in pass pro against LV. I mean, that was to be expected with all the injuries and going against Crosby & Co, but Taylor was really under pressure a lot.

 

Agree - he took a beating last game.  Without his evasiveness, it could have been real bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[WilberMarshall]

21 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 I agree with McCain, there are times where he looks lost.

There was one play in the 4th where Carr missed a TD throw, and McCain was, well I don't what he was doing, but there wasn't anyone around for him to cover. He should have been alot closer to the WR in the endzone, but he just did a little ' i'm not gonna bother' cut across the 3 yd line. 

This secondary has been fortunate in these last 4 games, but this week there's 3 good WRs and the DC needs to lay off the soft zone stuff; these guys are so used to it they run to their spot and almost come to a stand still at times, waiting to see what happens, and those WRs will streak by them. 

 

McCain without a doubt is the weakest link. He will cost them games. How does a Deep Safety not do what a Deep Safety is supposed to do? 

 

He is Akpe 2.0 without the speed.

[duffy]

14 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I would chalk up this 4 game winning streak primarily to the defensive performance.  Yes, we've ran the ball well on offense and limited mistakes - credit for that.  But the primary reason we have 4 W's is the defense playing much, much better than they did early in the season.  I'm sure part of that is on the offense running the ball effectively and keeping the ball out of the opposition's hands as well.

 

13 hours ago, PolarExpress said:

Did you watch the game?  The defense is the reason we won.  The offense was sluggish.  Both units working together would make us a much better team.

No, I totally agree the defense has been playing really well lately. I just feel like they could be even better, and the record would be be way better, too, had they played this well early on and Young and Sweat had taken another step. But the fact that the Team is doing so well now is awesome and very promising. It was a rough start to the year, but we're back in it. Super pumped 

[steve09ru]

The Gibson usage for me, I'm fine with - I agree that he's probably getting used a little bit more than what we would like to see but I think with his limited RB/touches experience that this will help him build up that stamina.  Even with the heavy usage, he's been a key on our end of game drives to burn the clock.  Averaging 4.4 yards per carry on carries 20-29.

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

The Gibson usage for me, I'm fine with - I agree that he's probably getting used a little bit more than what we would like to see but I think with his limited RB/touches experience that this will help him build up that stamina.  Even with the heavy usage, he's been a key on our end of game drives to burn the clock.  Averaging 4.4 yards per carry on carries 20-29.

Its not so much how often we use him but how we use him. I'd like to split him out wide more and use him more as a receiver like the Saints and Panthers use Kamara and McCaffery. Take say 5 of those up the middle hand offs and instead have em line up out wide to run 5 pass routes.

[Skinsinparadise]