The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Well, personnel wise. QB would be the #1 priority.

 

Here’s what the new owner will do upon being approved.

 

He will have a meeting with Ron and tell Ron that he will be coach only. He will tell Ron he’s bringing his own GM immediately and firing his Gm crew. If Ron doesn’t like that, he can leave. As for any long term at coaching; 23 would be an evaluation year and the new Gm will decide if Ron remains.

 

I am record of saying Ron should be gone in 24 but I also know reality says 23, Ron will be evaluated and the new Gm will decide if Ron remains.

You know, if the team makes the playoffs, which would give Ron 2 playoff appearances in 3 years, a new owner might actually not things are as dire as you do.  He wouldn’t be taking over a dumpster fire of a football situation. 
 

If they make the playoffs and win a game, I’m not sure any new owner would immediately rock the boat.  
 

Im sure there would be changes, but maybe not as drastic as you would think.  
 

Of course, they have to do that first and it hasn’t happened yet.  But if it does….

[El Mexican]

10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He didn’t bring it.  Turner started calling it because they learned last year it’s the only way to win when he plays.  

 

Yeah. I'll take that over losing with Wentz.

 

Turner's gameplan was severely affected by Went'z poor execution. TH has had a much MUCH better showing here.

[El Mexican]

11 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t really have any idea how he would fare, as he only showed glimpses of comfort in Turner’s scheme.  But with the offense scaled down to a run heavy approach, I’ve got to think it would help him somewhat in regards to taking sacks.  A: less opportunity to get sacked. B: play-action becomes more viable and scary for opposing D’s when the QB has a live arm.

 

To reiterate, I don’t think the coaching staff can afford to go away from Heinicke, no matter how bad it looks.  However, if they lose one or two with similar QB output, I don’t think his leash is very long.

This ties into what I’ve been talking about with @Thinking Skins.  This is much more about a Scott Turner than it is TH.

 

Yep, the synch is there. Wentz never achieved that in his limited playtime.

[Voice_of_Reason]

24 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

 

Yeah. I'll take that over losing with Wentz.

 

Turner's gameplan was severely affected by Went'z poor execution. TH has had a much MUCH better showing here.

I mean, the offense looked it’s best in the Jax, second half of the Detroit game and the Tenn game.  
 

If you protect Wentz he’s very good.  If you don’t he’s a catastrophe. 

[El Mexican]

9 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

TH is getting graded on a easier test.

 

Time to go the eye doctor, friend.

You must be watching some weird games in your location.

 

 

8 hours ago, redskinss said:

I was thinking that yesterday myself. 

40 years as a fan and I've never really had a true no question franchise quarterback to root for even during the glory years.

Theisman was the closest and he was at the tail end of his career and wasn't an undeniable franchise guy anyway.

Then there was all the guys gibbs trotted out but none were even close to a franchise quarterback, which in my opinion is what puts gibbs in the conversation for best coach ever but that's another subject.

The next thirty years had some tries at acquiring one but none even remotely successful. 

Even having lived through the glory years I can't imagine what it'd be like to have an aaron rodgers or a patrick mahomes. 

I've always wondered what the glory years would have been like had the dolphins passed on Dan Marino, would have sucked to not have gotten the privilege of cheering for Darrel green for 20 years but damn what might have been had gibbs had one of the greatest quarterbacks ever to suit up.

 

I'm pretty sure Brad Johnson and Brunell fit the bill. Not franchise-caliber QBs, but unquestionable starters yes.

That's about it, though.

[El Mexican]

49 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I mean, the offense looked it’s best in the Jax, second half of the Detroit game and the Tenn game.  
 

If you protect Wentz he’s very good.  If you don’t he’s a catastrophe. 

 

He has the mobility of an oak tree.

 

In today's NFL that's a massive handicap.

[FootballZombie]

6 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

Time to go the eye doctor, friend.

You must be watching some weird games in your location.

 

 

This from they guy who thinks our overwhelming predication to rushing the ball is some form of balance brought by TH and not an obvious and consistent attempt to hide the QB?

 

TH has helmed one of the most rushing predicated Os in the NFL since he has been playing for good reason. He is not asked to do what the majority of other QBs are, especially when our run pass disparity is 40 to 27.

 

 

My eyes are fine bruv. Stop bogarting. Pass it off.

 

 

[zCommander]

Turner had to moxie up his play calling and it is working. Win it any which way you can.

 

[757SeanTaylor21]

If Wentz was behind center right this very moment running as heavy as we do km sure the results would be fairly similar.

[tmandoug1]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I mean, the offense looked it’s best in the Jax, second half of the Detroit game and the Tenn game.  
 

If you protect Wentz he’s very good.  If you don’t he’s a catastrophe. 

Hence then reason Heiny is starting...the Oline is terrible.

[El Mexican]

5 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

This from they guy who thinks our overwhelming predication to rushing the ball is some form of balance brought by TH and not an obvious and consistent attempt to hide the QB?

 

TH has helmed one of the most rushing predicated Os in the NFL since he has been playing for good reason. He is not asked to do what the majority of other QBs are, especially when our run pass disparity is 40 to 27.

 

 

My eyes are fine bruv. Stop bogarting. Pass it off.

 

 

 

C'mon man, what the heck is even "bogarting"?

 

If the team is winning it's a team effort. Turner ain't passing the ball. 

 

There's a clear an obvious categorical change for the better with TH at the helm. Running is actually a good thing for this team.

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

If Wentz was behind center right this very moment running as heavy as we do km sure the results would be fairly similar.

 

The problem is that Wentz wasn't traded to come here and just hand off the ball. They wanted to stretch the field with him. There have been plays where Taylor has stood in the pocket knowing he is going to get hit and still throws the ball to his WRs. This is something Wentz didn't do or was not willing to do. 

 

The offense line loves running the football more since they are not getting the job done as pass plays and they know it. Also Taylor with his scrambling ability and quickness buys the OL more time, even for a 1.5 seconds more, this is something we didn't see from Wentz and not sure if he has now learned it after seeing the way Taylor is playing. But let's not find that out now until it becomes absolutely necessary. 

[CommanderCarson]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You know, if the team makes the playoffs, which would give Ron 2 playoff appearances in 3 years, a new owner might actually not things are as dire as you do.  He wouldn’t be taking over a dumpster fire of a football situation. 
 

If they make the playoffs and win a game, I’m not sure any new owner would immediately rock the boat.  
 

Im sure there would be changes, but maybe not as drastic as you would think.  
 

Of course, they have to do that first and it hasn’t happened yet.  But if it does….

I think a lot of that depends on how it’s done. If they stumble into the playoffs and win a lucky game and then get routed, that’s a lot different than winning out and winning a playoff game convincingly and then battling a good team and barley losing on the road.

 

I think they are one in the same and related in a lot of ways, but I’d be more concerned with uprooting a FO that has been capable of drafting 3+ impact players in every draft he’s been a part of. There’s a reason we are starting to come together and win games, and it’s because of guys like Gibson, Cosmi, Forrest, Curl, Davis, St Juste, Dotson, Brob all playing huge roles and making key contributions. My biggest fear is that we begin to finally get things right, and then some bozo like early Dan comes in trying to put his imprint on everything and blows up a good thing. Please don’t let that happen!

[NoCalMike]

Colt McCoy's stat line at the half against the 49ers D is about what Heinicke's stat line looks like for an entire game. 

 

Also, watching Jimmy G, you can see how he is game planned around too, but the difference is that offense scores TDs when given the chances, so even in the "game manager" tier of QBs there are levels.  I would never invest a bucket of money on Jimmy G, but I would certainly take him as a starting QB over Heinicke.

Edited November 22, 2022 by NoCalMike

[zCommander]

23 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Colt McCoy's stat line at the half against the 49ers D is about what Heinicke's stat line looks like for an entire game. 

 

Also, watching Jimmy G, you can see how he is game planned around too, but the difference is that offense scores TDs when given the chances, so even in the "game manager" tier of QBs there are levels.  I would never invest a bucket of money on Jimmy G, but I would certainly take him as a starting QB over Heinicke.

 

Stats are cool but they only scored 10 points. Didn't win. 

 

Shanny Jr. calls better plays in the redzone. Turner gets too cute in the redzone. Kittle is a beast though. Their run game was incredible. I would have taken Jimmy as a lost resort this year, the surgery thing made things uncertain for us, but not next year. Really need to build through the draft and have our own identity that has been missing for the last 25+ years. 

[NoCalMike]

10 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Stats are cool but they only scored 10 points. Didn't win. 

 

Shanny Jr. calls better plays in the redzone. Turner gets too cute in the redzone. Kittle is a beast though. Their run game was incredible. I would have taken Jimmy as a lost resort this year, the surgery thing made things uncertain for us, but not next year. Really need to build through the draft and have our own identity that has been missing for the last 25+ years. 

 

Well this team doesn't score many TD's with Heinicke either, so it seems mutual with that tier of QB.

[tshile]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You know, if the team makes the playoffs, which would give Ron 2 playoff appearances in 3 years, a new owner might actually not things are as dire as you do.  He wouldn’t be taking over a dumpster fire of a football situation. 

The way this team is playing *right now* a new owner would be stupid to just blow things up. 
 

you got a coach that gets guys to play for him and a top 5 defense. With an actual quarterback that should be a perennial playoff team. 
 

the kicker is they’ll have to spend money to retain the dlinemen that make it all happen

 

(and of course 4 weeks from now they make look different….)

[NoCalMike]

10 minutes ago, tshile said:

The way this team is playing *right now* a new owner would be stupid to just blow things up. 
 

you got a coach that gets guys to play for him and a top 5 defense. With an actual quarterback that should be a perennial playoff team. 
 

the kicker is they’ll have to spend money to retain the dlinemen that make it all happen

 

(and of course 4 weeks from now they make look different….)

 

Yeah I don't think it makes sense to blow anything up, this roster is too into the process of being built and I actually think it is pretty close to taking the next step.  

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You know, if the team makes the playoffs, which would give Ron 2 playoff appearances in 3 years, a new owner might actually not things are as dire as you do.  He wouldn’t be taking over a dumpster fire of a football situation. 
 

If they make the playoffs and win a game, I’m not sure any new owner would immediately rock the boat.  
 

Im sure there would be changes, but maybe not as drastic as you would think.  
 

Of course, they have to do that first and it hasn’t happened yet.  But if it does….

A 7th seed and a likely quick exit, not exactly worthy of much.

 

The new owner will see the team has no qb. The new owner will Absolutely want his own personnel man running things. Most likely he makes the change after the draft but he will Not want Ron’s people longer than he has to. He probably will also see Ron has to much power and too much on his plate and strip him of all duties but coaching. Ron may choose to leave.  The new owner isn’t going to just go with what he inherited.

[IrepDC]

7 hours ago, TChaler70 said:

I agree with you 100%, how could anyone want to Bench TH4 for Howell at this point. I think fantasy football, PFF grades, etc has clouded peoples mind when evaluating a player within a team these days. Plus if you listen to Rons weekly pressers he says SH cant even drop back consistently correctly yet.

 

Can you imagine the locker room. Ron "Hey John and Terry we are in the middle of playoff run, I know we have won 5 out of the last 6 but its SH time! I know he was drafted in the 5th round and has never taken an NFL snap but I got to see what he has got"

Sam Howell gonna emerge in year 2 like D Foe as the next developmental player? Rivera isn't giving Howell anything. That's good for him. As much as I'd like to see him this year, he may not get significant time.

 

I watched some of the Raiders Broncos game unfortunately. Carr does have tools that are appealing. He was accurate and got the ball out fast on some short throws. He threw a few nice deep passes to Adams. The game still ended up being close with a favor from Melvin Gordon. I'm still not sold yet, but I'm watching him now.

[xxprodigyxx]

3 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

A 7th seed and a likely quick exit, not exactly worthy of much.

 

The new owner will see the team has no qb. The new owner will Absolutely want his own personnel man running things. Most likely he makes the change after the draft but he will Not want Ron’s people longer than he has to. He probably will also see Ron has to much power and too much on his plate and strip him of all duties but coaching. Ron may choose to leave.  The new owner isn’t going to just go with what he inherited.

i haven't been on the forum consistently throughout the years, so i don't know the prominent people and posting stylez...but i'm getting a clearer picture that you are on the irrationally negative side of the spectrum.

[Skinsinparadise]

let me add a point for all those wanting to draft a QB or trade up for one from where we likely pick.

 

I mentioned maybe Richardson, who intrigues me but am guessing no because he either doesn't come out in the draft or if he does he might rise in the predraft process.  So i left it to Will Levis who I've watched plenty and I am not a fan of.   The other dude thinking about it some more who is a riser is Bo Nix.  He didn't get off to a hot college career but he's playing well this season so it wouldn't shock me if he gets late first round consideriation if he kills it in the predraft process.   Maybe Michael Penix albiet with his checkered medical history and what's happened here with QBs, I'd be worried.   I got to watch both a lot more to decide for myself. 

 

Like I said its tough for me to back theory as for draft versus veteran.  It all depends for me as to whom?  I am not saying I am right or wrong about these guys, its really hard obviously to dicipher college prospects.  But I simply refuse to have to theoritcal conversations in an off season about draft or veteran.    But that's just me.  To me it has to be what player in the draft versus what veteran?  I also prefer not to get a slow developing young QB, unless they got absolutely freakish talent (that's why i'd make an exception for Richardson), which is a tall ask when you aren't picking top 5. 

 

By and large I think this team is built to win now if they find a winning QB veteran. I get some thought early this season that the roster isn't hot when they were losing.  Look I wasn't sure about the roster myself.  But I try to be flexible when informatiion changes and information IMO has changed -- certain players have evolved very nicely from the beginning of the season.   I also get the feeling that by default we are never close and also in at least a three year away building plan because when aren't we?   Even if Dan doesn't like to rebuild it almost always feels like we are three years or whatever away based on the talent on the roster.  I think personally we might be finally off that hamster wheel but I do understand the feeling that we are never off that hamster wheel. 

 

The weapons we got IMO are legit.  This isn't the Gibbs teams with Lloyd and Randle El and all the scrub receivers we tried to oomplement Santana Moss with.  Even Sheehan who has been cyncial at the start of the season has said this defense is legit, reminds him of the Gregg Williams defense.  Niki from the WP who predicted a losing record at the start of the season, now sees this as a playoff team.  Ditto Standig.  Ditto Cooley.  Things feel like they've changed.  I am far from on an island about it. 

 

Yeah I'll reserve some judgement.  It can still fall apart.  But if they keep playing like this -- IMO this is the most win now roster we've had since the Gibbs 2 years.  In the Gibbs 2 years, to give them some credit they tried to fix the offense but failed.  IMO we got to try here aggressively.  

Edited November 22, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsfan1311]

10 hours ago, El Mexican said:

 

C'mon man, what the heck is even "bogarting"?

 

 

😂 

It's a generational thing....

[Koolblue13]

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

There's a new Commander in town. For now. We'll see.