The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

There's a new Commander in town. For now. We'll see.

I think that's the poster over z's bed.

[Skinsinparadise]

PFF not too kind to Taylor, I know from following this week to week, some guys like Davis was docked hard for early performances so that hurts their overall grade.  Adding the usual disclaimer that PFF grades are interesting but also flawed 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think that's the poster over z's bed.

Not gonna lie, I'd put that on my wall somewhere. Just dumb.

[Koolblue13]

[Zim489]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

let me add a point for all those wanting to draft a QB or trade up for one from where we likely pick.

 

I mentioned maybe Richardson, who intrigues me but am guessing no because he either doesn't come out in the draft or if he does he might rise in the predraft process.  So i left it to Will Levis who I've watched plenty and I am not a fan of.   The other dude thinking about it some more who is a riser is Bo Nix.  He didn't get off to a hot college career but he's playing well this season so it wouldn't shock me if he gets late first round consideriation if he kills it in the predraft process.   Maybe Michael Penix albiet with his checkered medical history and what's happened here with QBs, I'd be worried.   I got to watch both a lot more to decide for myself. 

 

Like I said its tough for me to back theory as for draft versus veteran.  It all depends for me as to whom?  I am not saying I am right or wrong about these guys, its really hard obviously to dicipher college prospects.  But I simply refuse to have to theoritcal conversations in an off season about draft or veteran.    But that's just me.  To me it has to be what player in the draft versus what veteran?  I also prefer not to get a slow developing young QB, unless they got absolutely freakish talent (that's why i'd make an exception for Richardson), which is a tall ask when you aren't picking top 5. 

 

By and large I think this team is built to win now if they find a winning QB veteran. I get some thought early this season that the roster isn't hot when they were losing.  Look I wasn't sure about the roster myself.  But I try to be flexible when informatiion changes and information IMO has changed -- certain players have evolved very nicely from the beginning of the season.   I also get the feeling that by default we are never close and also in at least a three year away building plan because when aren't we?   Even if Dan doesn't like to rebuild it almost always feels like we are three years or whatever away based on the talent on the roster.  I think personally we might be finally off that hamster wheel but I do understand the feeling that we are never off that hamster wheel. 

 

The weapons we got IMO are legit.  This isn't the Gibbs teams with Lloyd and Randle El and all the scrub receivers we tried to oomplement Santana Moss with.  Even Sheehan who has been cyncial at the start of the season has said this defense is legit, reminds him of the Gregg Williams defense.  Niki from the WP who predicted a losing record at the start of the season, now sees this as a playoff team.  Ditto Standig.  Ditto Cooley.  Things feel like they've changed.  I am far from on an island about it. 

 

Yeah I'll reserve some judgement.  It can still fall apart.  But if they keep playing like this -- IMO this is the most win now roster we've had since the Gibbs 2 years.  In the Gibbs 2 years, to give them some credit they tried to fix the offense but failed.  IMO we got to try here aggressively.  

I just dont see the option out there Sans Lamar and even then I see that as a 5% probability he even becomes available. Good QBs just dont be come available outside of extenuating circumstances. Carr I would be hard against. We need to develop our own great QB. Unfortunatley it will take a trade up to find one and I dont think the roster is where it needs to be to be a SB contending team in the following 3 years post QB draft. Theres just too many positions that need re building. The roster is closer to being blown up than built upon with a new staff coming in within the next 2-14 months. 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I just dont see the option out there Sans Lamar and even then I see that as a 5% probability he even becomes available. Good QBs just dont be come available outside of extenuating circumstances. Carr I would be hard against. We need to develop our own great QB. Unfortunatley it will take a trade up to find one and I dont think the roster is where it needs to be to be a SB contending team in the following 3 years post QB draft. Theres just too many positions that need re building. The roster is closer to being blown up than built upon with a new staff coming in within the next 2-14 months. 

 

I know you think the roster is "meh", apparently lol not even 3 years away, so we are working with an entire different premise so really impossible to discuss the value of a QB between you and me.   

 

We could just discuss the college QBs prospects specifically but any other discussion would be wasting each other's time.  We are on different planets as to this roster.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[TK]

 

 

 

 

[redskinss]

56 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Edit, nevermind, thought that was josh allen not Nathan peterman.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by redskinss

[Zim489]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know you think the roster is "meh", apparently lol not even 3 years away, so we are working with an entire different premise so really impossible to discuss the value of a QB between you and me.   

 

We could just discuss the college QBs prospects specifically but any other discussion would be wasting each other's time.  We are on different planets as to this roster.

I think a rookie QB is 3 years away from being a good spot to have us in competition for great things. A rookie QB shouldnt be counted on to do anything. So for the roster I would be looking at 3-4 years out. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think a rookie QB is 3 years away from being a good spot to have us in competition for great things. A rookie QB shouldnt be counted on to do anything. So for the roster I would be looking at 3-4 years out. 

 

Depends on the rookie.  Joe Burrow for example was in the SB year 2.  But yeah If we go with the 2nd tier type QB in the draft as this team habitually does, I agree its a slow burn, that's the point I've been making.

 

 

[Zim489]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Depends on the rookie.  Joe Burrow for example was in the SB year 2.  But yeah If we go with the 2nd tier type QB in the draft as this team habitually does, I agree its a slow burn, that's the point I've been making.

 

 

And thats why Im not high on the roster 3 ish years out. The entirety of the Oline sans MAYBE Cosmi is gone. Both RBs probably gone. Terry 30. No Curtis. Jahan maybe a good number 2. I have my doubts. Nothing at TE. Maybe Cole flashes but I doubt it at this point. LB is a question of what Jamin can actually develop into. Secondary that was looking bleak pre season thankfully has turned it around. Lets see if DF can develop into the full time FS. CB will need completely rebuilt outside of BSJ and if he gets another concussion it might include him. Dline is the only thing you can solidly say will be good then. Even then theres arguments of the 2-4 to keep. I lean towards 2. Give as clean of a slate as possible to the next staff. 

 

 

I look at the roster construction through the lens of when the rookie QB we draft is most likely to be ready to go and thats usually around 3 if they do it. So 2026-27 right now is roughly our time frame. 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Zim489

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think that's the poster over z's bed.

 

Mount Rushmore about to get a new face too.   

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

And thats why Im not high on the roster 3 ish years out. The entirety of the Oline sans MAYBE Cosmi is gone. Both RBs probably gone. Terry 30. No Curtis. Jahan maybe a good number 2. I have my doubts. Nothing at TE. Maybe Cole flashes but I doubt it at this point. LB is a question of what Jamin can actually develop into. Secondary that was looking bleak pre season thankfully has turned it around. Lets see if DF can develop into the full time FS. CB will need completely rebuilt outside of BSJ and if he gets another concussion it might include him. Dline is the only thing you can solidly say will be good then. Even then theres arguments of the 2-4 to keep. I lean towards 2. Give as clean of a slate as possible to the next staff. 

 

 

 

Looks bleak projecting the roster forward with apparently no draft picks in the next 3 years to fortify the roster or any cap room.  I feel the pain of it. 😀

[Zim489]

I know Taylor has been one of the luckiest QBs in recent memory and every week theres something new that gets pointed out. Galdi was talking about this AM. Through 6 games Wentz had 13 drops by WRs and 3 dropped INTs. Taylor through 5 games has ZERO drops and 5 dropped INTs.

 

The dude really does have a horseshoe up his ass

[zCommander]

23 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think a rookie QB is 3 years away from being a good spot to have us in competition for great things. A rookie QB shouldnt be counted on to do anything. So for the roster I would be looking at 3-4 years out. 

 

Can't wait to see what we have in Howell first. 

[TK]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

[skinny21]

The more I think about it, the more I think it makes sense to give the reins to Howell next year.

 

We save assets, whether cap dollars or draft picks, to bolster the team around him (oline mainly) and keep the band together on defense.

Beyond needing oline help, the supporting cast is in place for a young qb - defense, run game, receiving weapons, continuity of the coaching staff (although this remains to be seen).

The bar (set by Taylor/Carson) is low for him.

He doesn’t need to grab the reins (ie force things) from a leadership perspective.

We talk about him being a mix of Taylor/Carson in terms of mobility and arm talent, but I think he’s also getting the chance to develop mentally around how he sees these two play. 

 

And of course, we’re not committing assets to a qb in the midst of an ownership change, and (potential) subsequent FO/coaching change.  Now, whether Rivera sees it that way, whether he’s still around next year (and if so, in what capacity), whether ownership green lights a significant allocation of resources for a qb, etc… lot of things up in the air on that front.

[Koolblue13]

[skinny21]

39 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

And thats why Im not high on the roster 3 ish years out. The entirety of the Oline sans MAYBE Cosmi is gone. Both RBs probably gone. Terry 30. No Curtis. Jahan maybe a good number 2. I have my doubts. Nothing at TE. Maybe Cole flashes but I doubt it at this point. LB is a question of what Jamin can actually develop into. Secondary that was looking bleak pre season thankfully has turned it around. Lets see if DF can develop into the full time FS. CB will need completely rebuilt outside of BSJ and if he gets another concussion it might include him. Dline is the only thing you can solidly say will be good then. Even then theres arguments of the 2-4 to keep. I lean towards 2. Give as clean of a slate as possible to the next staff. 

 

 

I look at the roster construction through the lens of when the rookie QB we draft is most likely to be ready to go and thats usually around 3 if they do it. So 2026-27 right now is roughly our time frame. 

 

I mean, isn’t every roster in the league is going to look awful 3 years out?  Heck, bump it to 4 years and our team would consist of… Jahon Dotson?  We’d have a lot of cap space though, lol.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

I know Taylor has been one of the luckiest QBs in recent memory and every week theres something new that gets pointed out. Galdi was talking about this AM. Through 6 games Wentz had 13 drops by WRs and 3 dropped INTs. Taylor through 5 games has ZERO drops and 5 dropped INTs.

 

The dude really does have a horseshoe up his ass

 

That's because guys catch hard for him! Because of moxie!

 

But seriously...yeah eventually luck runs out. It did last season as well.

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

That's because guys catch hard for him! Because of moxie!

 

But seriously...yeah eventually luck runs out. It did last season as well.

 

Except our luck won't run out with running the ball more and our D being a top 5 D. 

 

By the way, they are not using the same game plan as last year so to keep on saying that means you are not looking at what is happening right now. 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

5 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Except our luck won't run out with running the ball more and our D being a top 5 D. 

 

By the way, they are not using the same game plan as last year so to keep on saying that means you are not looking at what is happening right now. 

Exactly why I'd go back to Wentz....when healthy of course.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I totally get the “luck” angle on Heinicke.  
 

He absolutely appears to have a horseshoe up his butt.  I can’t recall any QB in my lifetime as a fan that throws up so many turnover worthy balls and rarely pays the price for it like Heinicke.

 

The believers will scoff and cite our record with him at QB, that the end of last year was solely related to injuries and Covid, and whatever else to plead their case that he’s for real.  Even in his very mediocre starts this year, they will point the finger at Turner as the culprit for the red zone woes, or not “rolling him out on bootlegs”.

 

And until the “luck” runs out, I don’t blame them for sticking to their guns.  But I still, 20 some odd starting games in, cannot wrap my head around how much “luck” the guy seems to have.

 

I can wrap my head around win streaks based on running the ball relentlessly, the defense playing great, and the QB primarily coming along for the ride.  But it’s hard to process the dropped interceptions or the ducks where our guys readjust and make miracle plays, occurring so regularly.  It’s hard to process the consistent stat lines that look like the stat lines of a losing QB.  
 

I stand by what I’ve said about the dude multiple times, he’s an enigma.  His track record though is growing and at some point he’s either just legit lucky or unlocked some odd superpower that every other backup wishes they could have.

 

 

 

[mistertim]

38 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Except our luck won't run out with running the ball more and our D being a top 5 D. 

 

By the way, they are not using the same game plan as last year so to keep on saying that means you are not looking at what is happening right now. 

 

Running the ball a lot and having a defense that's playing well doesn't stop Heinicke from throwing lots of interception-worthy passes and getting lucky that defenders drop them. Can't find it at the moment, but IIRC someone posted data showing that TH's number of turnover worthy plays was one of the highest, if not the highest, in the NFL.

 

As far as the game plan, can you give me specifics on how us running the ball a lot and relying on a stingy defense in 2021 is much different than us running the ball a lot and relying on a stingy defense in 2022?

 

The biggest difference actually seems to be that Heinicke is putting up worse numbers than during the win streak last season.

Edited November 22, 2022 by mistertim

[redskinss]

Heineke isn't the first bad quarterback to have a winning streak and he won't be the last.

He will however end up just like the restvof them, crashing back down to earth when the luck runs out or the rest of the team stops carrying him or both.