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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

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skinny21

skinny21

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Main difference is they can hit the ground running with Carr.  They likely can win next season easier.  And that might help keep Dan in his cage among other things. 

While I lean more towards drafting a qb instead, I can see the point with Carr of course… particularly when factoring in job security, the rebranding and getting fans (back) in the stadium.  

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Redskins 2021

Redskins 2021

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Posted

If the price is rite, you make the deal. A dline man we can't afford to resign and a first round pick that we would use on a qb that we would be lucky to be as good as car is a good deal. The money to extand his contract would.be alot but that is the going rite for QB of his ability.  

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

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Posted (edited)

Derek Carr is also 30 which by today's NFL standard, aside from a devastating injury, means he has a good amount of seasons of high level play remaining.  He eliminates the need for any other immediate action at the position.  

 

A few seasons ago when they traded for Alex Smith, the general consensus on that was (regardless of how good or not you felt Smith was) it being a "yeah, but..." type of situation. Sure, we signed a guy who can probably play for a couple more seasons but it isn't addressing the situation long term and was merely to attempt to not lose ground from Cousins exiting the team. 

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actorguy1

actorguy1

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Posted

I like to daydream that this team will have a rise like the Seahawks did in the early 10's. 2010 they made the playoffs at 7-9. In 2011 they missed the playoffs with another 7-9 record. In 2012 they acquired Flynn, drafted Wilson and used the Legion of Boom to finish 11-5. Maybe daydreams can come true.

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wit33

wit33

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've not been arguing Carr is a top 10 QB.  I get your beef is with stats that show him top 10 and you want to center it more on TDs where he's not top 10.  OK.  Carr 14th in TDs this year, 11th the previous year.   I know you are a big Alex guy, he was never a big TD guy, never hitting 30, and only making 20 TDs or over just three times in his career. Now, you don't think he's good?  Carr has made 20 plus every season but one, that one miss was 19.  And hit the 30 mark. 

 

I am not arguing Carr is a top 10 QB.  I am arguing he's 10-14.  Even if we want to cherry pick a stat where he's not as impressive on.  It still puts him in that category.

 

Not cherry picking this stat in the least, I believe it to be one of the more important stats for a QB, especially if you have 3,4,5 or whatever years of data to pull from. TD passes, offensive point production/ranking, and wins for that teams QB are crucial to me when wanting to hand over the franchise to a QB for 3-4 years at 12-15% of the cap. 
 

He may barely be hanging onto that 10-14 range you appear to be placing supreme value on. What’s the expectation for this range of QB? When does winning become part of the expectation?

 

Alex Smith was given a contract that paid him 10% of the cap roughly, which at the time I thought was “okay” for both sides, neither winning the deal. The franchise was from a culture standpoint atrocious (as you know) so I valued bringing in a well respected dude to lead the team. He was a winner (players care about this than most fans it seems), a professional at the QB spot, impacted the run game, and could create/run for himself. If Alex was a pocket QB I’d be totally out on the dude. Extending and creating for the average to good provides moments of elite impact in my view and why I value it so much.

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Radically low? Kirk's TD numbers are actually very good.  But I don't want to argue him.  As for Carr his TD numbers are fine.   Points 17 right now, 10th last year.  They are a prolific passing team.  "Meh" running team.   28th in rushing this year.  So points are average.  14th in rushing last year.  Points much better. Top 10.

 

Kirk has made improvements this and last season, but was an issue here in Washington. 
 

Not good enough numbers for Carr and his team for me to justify giving up assets, a new deal, and the franchise keys for next 3-4 seasons.  To be honest, it’s not an extreme stance, I wouldn’t hate Carr, he’s professional at the QB spot.
 

For me, if Venturing in area average to good, I want a dude can create, extend, and impact the run game— obviously this is personal to my beliefs and not right or wrong. 
 


 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know some disagree.  But for me he screams as a dude who would do better playing with a better team that doesn't put the whole team on their plate.  It was the same rap by some against Stafford.  Stafford just doesn't do enough to elevate his team.  The W-L record is on him.   Yeah those are good stats by Stafford but what about these stats....

 

From my vantage point, Stafford is much more respected and viewed as a better player. Maybe I’m wrong? 
 

I don’t disagree Carr could do well with a Sean Payton or Shannahan type. Like I previously mentioned, I’m not in the complete other side and wouldn’t at all be shocked to see Carr lead a 12 win team somewhere. 
 

Stafford chose the unselfish route by being an asset to the Rams from a cap standpoint for this and next season to compete for a SB (right at about 10% for both seasons). Carr has one remaining year on his deal, less value for the team acquiring him, and we’ll see if he chooses to be an asset financially to his “new team”. 

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think Carr has shown to be a good QB with the Raiders.  I think at a minimum he will continue to show he's a good QB with a better supporting cast.   You aren't going to convince me otherwise.  I am not going to convince you.  Your opinion is dug in.  So is mine.

 


Maybe it’s my buddy who’s not missed a game in 20 years wanting to be done with Carr impacting my judgement, but this seems to be pretty common for the Raider fan these days. That means something to me as does my own observations and data check ins. Wish he was a bit more mobile, though I’ve read he’s tried to work on his scrambling for the occasional first downs. 
 

I seriously wouldn’t hate it and could easily convince myself to get on board with Carr, so no, I’m not dug in on the dude not having potential value to Washington in future years. Reportedly has strong intangibles aka “Smith-gibles”, which you know I value highly (so does Ron) lol

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AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

Posted
Posted

I think one thing that gets lost in the Carr discussion is that Del Rio was his coach for a stretch. I would think he would have a lot of say/input on whether we should go after him or not. Not final say, obviously, but I’m sure he would have a valued perspective.

 

I’ve always liked Carr. He’s one of those guys that you can tell football matters to him, outside of his physical gifts. Guy competes. Shows emotion. Teammates respond to him. 
 

Sign him up.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

He may barely be hanging onto that 10-14 range you appear to be placing supreme value on. What’s the expectation for this range of QB? When does winning become part of the expectation?

 

 

The 10-14 drill is not some abstract thing with me.  I can't lump 10-32 in one big pile where if its not a filet mignon then everything else are all burgers of varying quality, where this is no such thing as sirloin or flank steak.  

 

My point is 10-14 guys are the dudes that are a tier behind the elite guys.  In my mind there is a tier after these 10-14 guys -- the middle ones.  And there is a tier after the mid pack guys -- the bottom tier QBs.  So lets say there are 4 tiers.

 

 I am interested in that 2nd group.  Yeah I get the cynicism from some that its difficult to get that first tier-filet.  But I think its possible albeit not easy to get a sirloin.  I think there is a world of difference from having a Derek Carr versus a Case Keenum type.  No matter what kind of "deal" we get Keenum at.   

 

You like to say a variation of teams might grow sour on the idea of signing middle of the pack QBs to big deals.  That might be so.  But I don't see Carr as middle of the pack.  Also there is something also happening upon my observation as for how QBs are seen.  I think the idea that you can win in the league without a top QB but surround that dude with a killer supporting cast is becoming more passe versus more hip.  Heck I noticed even some on the board who used to push this narrative have backed off this thought.  Some are still stuck on it.  But I have noticed some previous stalwarts not pushing this narrative anymore. I think its a harder narrative to sell as time marches on.

 

The Browns have a killer roster.  They were a chic pick with some to make the SB.  Heck Madden for a spell had them as the top rated team talent wise.  And they seem on the road to nowhere with Baker.  Baker is cheap.  He's not even bad.  He's a middle pack kind of QB.   Killer roster but without the QB it still looks like they will fall short.  Other stories like that too including SF but I guess their story can still unfold.  The whole lets win a SB with Nick Foles idea to my observation is becoming less and less in vogue.

 

Case Keenum or a dude of his ilk means we are probably stuck in 7-10 purgatory no matter how good the supporting cast is.  Heck we had Collinsworth on the broadcast last Sunday more or less condemning this team by harping on you need a QB to be a playoff team and sorry that's not the WFT and they need to figure that out. 

 

57 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

From my vantage point, Stafford is much more respected and viewed as a better player. Maybe I’m wrong? 

 

Stafford seen as more of a freak talent than Carr.  But the narratives about both are pretty similar.  Actually wildly similar.  If Stafford was more respected, it would be by a hair not a mile.

 

57 minutes ago, wit33 said:


Maybe it’s my buddy who’s not missed a game in 20 years wanting to be done with Carr impacting my judgement, but this seems to be pretty common for the Raider fan these days. That means something to me as does my own observations and data check ins. Wish he was a bit more mobile, though I’ve read he’s tried to work on his scrambling for the occasional first downs. 
 

I seriously wouldn’t hate it and could easily convince myself to get on board with Carr, so no, I’m not dug in on the dude not having potential value to Washington in future years. Reportedly has strong intangibles aka “Smith-gibles”, which you know I value highly (so does Ron) lol

 

Ok I stand corrected I thought you were dug in.  Yeah as far as the Raider fans, I got a different vibe.  I traveled to the game with a bunch of them, I was the only WFT in the hotel van going to the game.  Having said that, it was a small sample.  Judging by twitter, Raider fans are mixed about Carr.  Just like Lions fans were mixed about Stafford.  Similar comments ironically too where its variations of this dude deserves better, watch what he does with a better team or we need him he's our best player to hey what has he ever won? He's limiting this team, and they will never win with him, its time to move on.

 

Like I said this playoff push is interesting.  If they make it, i think it would be tough for a new coach to push to move on from him.  If they fall short, I think it will be much easier to move on.  So am rooting for them to fail. 

 

He has some mobility but nothing special.109 yards this year.  140 the season before. 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1970609-derek-carr-combine-results-and-instant-reaction

Carr reinforced his athleticism with an unofficial 40-yard-dash time of 4.65. Bleacher Report's Matt Miller and ESPN's Josina Anderson instantly sang his praises after his first and second runs, respectively:

As ESPN's Adam Schefter captures, Carr's time was second only to Johnny Manziel:

While only one facet of his overall impressive game, Carr's speed in the drill reinforces his mobility in the pocket. In an NFL that has trended toward more mobility in play design in recent years, Carr's performance likely helps him move up some boards—as long as he shows strong in passing drills at his pro day.

The number eventually settled on an official 4.69, which was both expected and what scouts wanted to see.

Vertical Jump: 34.5 Inches

While it does not mean much of anything in the grand scheme of things for the position, it is impressive that Carr was able to come away with the second-best time in the vertical jump out of all signal-callers that competed.

 
 
19.84 miles per hour
 
The Raiders quarterback also had a chance to show his secret speed against the Cowboys. Carr ripped off a 22-yard run in the third quarter, converting in a crucial third down situation. On that run, NFL Next Gen Stats calculated him going 19.84 miles per hour – the fastest run by a quarterback in Week 12.Nov 29, 2021
Edited by Skinsinparadise
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AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

Posted
Posted

I would like to add, that I don’t think we trade for Carr if we have a top ten pick. I think we keep our picks and take a shot at one in the first round of the draft.

 

We shall see. It’s certainly disappointing to be in the same position year after year. Drafting one that pans out is obviously the preferred route, but I understand the skepticism. 
 

I just want a return to competent football. Last year was a tease. It’s easy to blame Covid this year, but I’m more annoyed at our abysmal play out of the gate. Inexcusable. Let’s hope for better returns next year. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Can’t wait to watch Corral tonight, I think that’s my favorite option for addressing QB. Keep TH and Allen. 
 

 

Corral has been the dude I've touted on the draft thread from as far as back as last season.  I like him.  But IMO he's not as safe as a pick as Carr. 

 

His offense isn't a typical pro offense.  Ole Miss's offense:  RPOs-quick tempo-spread.  And with the way Corral plays coupled with his small frame -- we might have to worry about injuries. 

 

As far as personality, Carr is safe.  Corral is somewhat safe but not as safe IMO.  There are a couple of red flags I've read about in the mix but overall I think he should be fine. 

 

Corral is my slam dunk favorite among the QBs in this draft but I wouldn't bank my mortgage on him that he will be as good as Carr.  Nonetheless, I'd be jazzed to draft him.  But definitely more jazzed for Carr. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Inigo Montoya

Inigo Montoya

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Corral has been the dude I've touted on the draft thread from as far as back as last season.  I like him.  But IMO he's not as safe as a pick as Carr. 

 

Corral is my slam dunk favorite among the QBs in this draft but I wouldn't bank my mortgage on him that he will be as good as Carr.  Nonetheless, I'd be jazzed to draft him.  But definitely more jazzed for Carr. 

I’m in for Carr as well, I just think the likelihood of making a run with a QB on a rookie deal is higher

and I feel good with TH and Allen as backups

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Ball Security

Ball Security

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I dont think we will have to move up for any of the qb. The panthers need one but none of the other teams ahead of us can I see picking one..

I could see Seattle using one of the Giants picks on a QB if they trade Wilson.

 

But, to your point, I don’t see us moving up to get a QB.

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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

Maybe I missed it, but is there some real chatter that Carr is going to be available, or is this just fan speculation and daydreaming? I'm all for it, but I haven't seen anything saying it's expected the Raiders are going to ditch him.

Just fan speculation. He has a year left on his deal and Vegas has a new coach. Will the new coach want him or not?

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OMacAttack

OMacAttack

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Posted
1 minute ago, skins island connection said:

I'm resigned to the fact that the FO will probably sit on their hands and let the best opportunities slip away to other teams, then throw their hands in the air and act as if they never saw it coming. 

Status quo. 

They were in on Stafford just got outbid.  I think the opposite, they agressively pursue their guy.

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Redskins 2021

Redskins 2021

Posted
Posted (edited)

Part of the problem is you have to have someone willing to play here. We were in on stafford but he did not want to come here.

 

Wilson does not want to come here 

Watson does not want to come.

I think A Rodgers would for.2 year at 50ilion a year

Carr I don't know

 

This franchise should have no problem getting players. We use to have a 40 year ticket waiting list.Now weather it's the bad ownership, the stadium, management, or environment it has got.to change. There no reason they should have a problem getting people to want to move.to DC area.

Edited by Redskins 2021
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