The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Renegade7]

21 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I seem to remember Kirk Cousins (this is not a defense, just facts) throwing for over 4,000 yards with Jamison Crowder as his best receiver and people here were annoyed by it.

 

He was 3rd in the NFL in passing once in 2016, I feel you.

 

Ya know, when I think of controversy, i typically think about who's going to start.  Thats 95% of the QB controversies here, Kirk was about how much he should be paid and when over a multi-year period.

 

Carr has one year left on his contract and we probably only have to slove how much to pay him once, it won't be spread out over years and backfire, ill take that "controversy" gladly, peice of cake compared to what we've been through.

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

He was 3rd in the NFL in passing once in 2016, I feel you.

 

Ya know, when I think of controversy, i typically think about who's going to start.  Thats 95% of the QB controversies here, Kirk was about how much he should be paid and when over a multi-year period.

 

Carr has one year left on his contract and we probably only have to slove how much to pay him once, it won't be spread out over years and backfire, ill take that "controversy" gladly, peice of cake compared to what we've been through.

 

 

 

I don't totally disagree, 95% of what we argue about is who should start.  The debate on Kirk certainly was about how much he should be paid and the length of the contract, too.

 

But it was also about how he never could step up and win the big one.  Stat compiler but not "clutch."  So while he was throwing for high yardage totals the criticism here is still the same criticism that dogs him in Minnesota.  

 

If we were to trade for Carr though, it couldn't only be for one year, that doesn't really solve anything.  LV opens trade talks by allowing the WFT/Red Wolves/Commanders to negotiate a new contract with him before a trade and then he's our QB for the next 5+ years.  It would be spread out over years and have the potential to backfire.

 

I'd be "okay" with a Carr trade, depending on the dollars and the years.  Certainly better than what we've had but I don't think he's a QB that can take a team to the promised land.  But maybe he's a guy that needs a change of scenery.  Who knows.

[Renegade7]

14 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

You can blame the Kirk stuff on Allen.

but today the only potential top 10-15 vet qb we have any chance to get is carr

 

Man, I feel like we are in our own echo chamber in her on Carr, it makes zero sense for Vegas to move on from him.

 

Coaches that want their own guy typically do that when inherit somebody thats not good, thats not the case with Carr.

 

  I'm not buying that he's an option at all, wishful thinking at best.

[Redskins 2021]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Man, I feel like we are in our own echo chamber in her on Carr, it makes zero sense for Vegas to move on from him.

 

Coaches that want their own guy typically do that when inherit somebody thats not good, thats not the case with Carr.

 

  I'm not buying that he's an option at all, wishful thinking at best.

Also remember there a shot that LV may not even want to do business with us because of the john gruden thing.

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I'd be "okay" with a Carr trade, depending on the dollars and the years.  Certainly better than what we've had but I don't think he's a QB that can take a team to the promised land.  But maybe he's a guy that needs a change of scenery.  Who knows.

 

@Skinsinparadise posted a pretty good breakdown of how underrated Carr is recently.  Hes not a stat padding admiral check down like Kirk is. 

 

I respectuflly disagree he can't win a ring, im jus not sure how to prove that.  He's tied for 22nd all time in game winning drives, Kirk is tied for 62, but Matt Ryan and Stafford are 7th and 8th respectively.  Such an odder stat then I was expecting.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm

5 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Also remember there a shot that LV may not even want to do business with us because of the john gruden thing.

 

Petty, but possible. In all fairness, that was a Snyder move, not Ron. 

 

That's an important point in regards to other franchises not wanting to do business with us, no one has cut off the Colts for the way Isray acts.  No one is sticking to their morals in regards to what Robert Craft did.

 

End of the day Jon Gruden brought that on himself, the truth gets out eventually.

 

 

[The Rook]

3 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Also remember there a shot that LV may not even want to do business with us because of the john gruden thing.

 

That is an interesting point.  It may drive up the cost IF they are even willing to discuss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

[Renegade7]

@Spaceman Spiff if he signs a 5 year extension with us, it could backfire when he's, what, 36, 37?  By all means, make my day, if we don't draft a first round QB by then, joke is on us.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Renegade7

[Spaceman Spiff]

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

@Skinsinparadise posted a pretty good breakdown of how underrated Carr is recently.  Hes not a stat padding admiral check down like Kirk is. 

 

I respectuflly disagree he can't win a ring, im jus not sure how to prove that.  He's tied for 22nd all time in game winning drives, Kirk is tied for 62, but Matt Ryan and Stafford are 7th and 8th respectively.  Such an odder stat then I was expecting.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm

 

Those are positive stats, I agree.  I just wonder if the powers that be around here can give him the talent he needs.  

[DWinzit]

23 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Man, I feel like we are in our own echo chamber in her on Carr, it makes zero sense for Vegas to move on from him.

Seriously, If he is that good, why would they want to let Carr go?

How can they do better than him? Draft a guy and maybe keep Mariota around?  That's crazy talk

 

18 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Also remember there a shot that LV may not even want to do business with us because of the john gruden thing.

Yup, if for some crazy reason they wanted to let Carr go, you can count on them looking a little extra from the old Danny Boy

[KDawg]

39 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

@Skinsinparadise posted a pretty good breakdown of how underrated Carr is recently.  Hes not a stat padding admiral check down like Kirk is. 

 

I respectuflly disagree he can't win a ring, im jus not sure how to prove that.  He's tied for 22nd all time in game winning drives, Kirk is tied for 62, but Matt Ryan and Stafford are 7th and 8th respectively.  Such an odder stat then I was expecting.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm

 

Petty, but possible. In all fairness, that was a Snyder move, not Ron. 

 

That's an important point in regards to other franchises not wanting to do business with us, no one has cut off the Colts for the way Isray acts.  No one is sticking to their morals in regards to what Robert Craft did.

 

End of the day Jon Gruden brought that on himself, the truth gets out eventually.

 

 

Why does Ron overshadow Snyder? He doesn’t. Snyder profits from the team doing well. 
 

This is a point I honestly didn’t even think about. Now I don’t think we have much of a shot at Carr, either.

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Why does Ron overshadow Snyder? He doesn’t. Snyder profits from the team doing well. 
 

This is a point I honestly didn’t even think about. Now I don’t think we have much of a shot at Carr, either.

 

I'm not suggesting he does, want to be clear in that.

 

What I'm not buying is franchises not wanting to do business with us over Snyder.  Players, yes, but if Vegas or another team can bend us over like the RG3 trade, they will.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm not suggesting he does, want to be clear in that.

 

What I'm not buying is franchises not wanting to do business with us over Snyder.  Players, yes, but if Vegas or another team can bend us over like the RG3 trade, they will.

Snyder really, really, really boned the Raiders. I think there is a Snyder tax from some teams, others don’t care and will do business with him all day. 
 

We made the Raiders fire their coach on a ten year contract by leaking decade year old emails. 
 

Yes, Gruden said some awful stuff. But Snyder threw the Raiders under the bus (allegedly) by blindsiding them and Gruden to get to Allen. 

Edited December 31, 2021 by KDawg

[Renegade7]

Just now, KDawg said:

Snyder really, really, really boned the Raiders. I think there is a Snyder tax from some teams, others don’t care and will do business with him all day. 
 

We made the Raiders fire their coach on a ten year contract by leaking decade year old emails. 
 

Yes, Gruden said some awful stuff. But Snyder through the Raiders under the bus (allegedly) by blindsiding them and Gruden to get to Allen. 

 

I believe Snyder did it, so are we saying thr Raiders won't do business with us, or jus play harder ball with us?  I was addressing them not wanting to do business with us at all, which I dont believe. 

 

Raiders will get over it, and like I said before, those emails would've got out eventually anyway.  We haven't gotten to the juicy part of what the Raiders knew about Gruden and what he was sending to Allen.

 

  I'm also not buying the Raiders organization had no idea how he was behind closed doors, or Tampa Bay.  Thats how karma works.

[KDawg]

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I believe Snyder did it, so are we saying thr Raiders won't do business with us, or jus play harder ball with us?  I was addressing them not wanting to do business with us at all, which I dont believe. 

 

Raiders will get over it, and like I said before, those emails would've got out eventually anyway.  We haven't gotten to the juicy part of what the Raiders knew about Gruden and what he was sending to Allen.

 

  I'm also not buying the Raiders organization had no idea how he was behind closed doors, or Tampa Bay.  Thats how karma works.

Could be either.

 

Put it this way… if similar offers are on the table from multiple teams I don’t think they’re choosing the one from WFT.

 

They’ll make it hurt.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Could be either.

 

Put it this way… if similar offers are on the table from multiple teams I don’t think they’re choosing the one from WFT.

 

They’ll make it hurt.

 

Fair, I can see them wanting more jus to stick it to us.  But no business at all? Thats bad business, especially if there's a chance of getting more out of us then someone else.

[Koolblue13]

The Stafford deal was 2 future firsts and a starting player. I assume that's the deal to get Carr.

[zCommander]

32 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The Stafford deal was 2 future firsts and a starting player. I assume that's the deal to get Carr.

 

Why do you guys always want to pay more than the QB is worth? 

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, and Derrick Carr are all about even. The value of guys like this in nfl is very high rite now. All probably top 15 qb and you can make playoff with. Can you win a superbowl with these, lesser QB have but you got to be great at other spots.

New Orleans 

Carolina 

Pittsburgh 

Denver

Us

All these teams think if they can get Qb at the level of these three they can make a big playoff run. That why the price is so high for these players weather trading for or paying there contract extention.

 

 

This team is nowhere near making a run. We are several players away and we won’t fill that in one year.

3 hours ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Cousins was not handled well. If we did not want him we could have traded him for multiple first round picks. The average for an above average QB is going to be 30 million a year very soon I think. Cousins is making 33 now

40 million is going to be the qb minimum and the elite qbs will be getting 50-60 million a year.

[Redskins 2021]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

This team is nowhere near making a run. We are several players away and we won’t fill that in one year.

40 million is going to be the qb minimum and the elite qbs will be getting 50-60 million a year.

We have holes on are team but we should be able to make playoffs.If they trade Carr and there are similar deals on the table we will not get him because of it. Unfortunately, will have to go above because we most likely played a big role in the Gruden scandal. Rite now are 3 QB make 13 million  combined. There 16 Qb who are paid more then that per year.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Redskins 2021

[method man]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The Stafford deal was 2 future firsts and a starting player. I assume that's the deal to get Carr.

They gave up the extra first as additional comp to dump Goff’s contract. The Lions didn’t really want Goff

 

Given where the market is, my guess is 2 1sts or a 1st, a 3rd and a player. They are not going to take one of the pass rushers because theirs are better than ours

[Est.1974]

There really are very few options open to Rivera. Last year he didn’t want to ‘mortgage the future’ as we still needed to build other pieces. Sadly we aren’t any further on as a roster 12 months later. That’s the biggest frustration.

 

Fitz was supposed to be the stop gap. Problem is we might end up looking for another stop gap in 2022. Prepare yourselves for a dose of Jimmy G perhaps. 

[Silvernon]

17 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

There really are very few options open to Rivera. Last year he didn’t want to ‘mortgage the future’ as we still needed to build other pieces. Sadly we aren’t any further on as a roster 12 months later. That’s the biggest frustration.

 

Fitz was supposed to be the stop gap. Problem is we might end up looking for another stop gap in 2022. Prepare yourselves for a dose of Jimmy G perhaps. 

I actually believe the opposite. Lots of movement this year. 

 

They made the huge mistake of not drafting Herbert, so they have to leverage everything they have for a veteran FA or a top pick. There is no other option available to them.

 

They are painted to a corner. Defense isn't good enough to win on its own unless Chase Young becomes a DPOY type player, and that is a huge question mark at this point. 

 

It's all-in. 

 

Rivera talked about a lot of movement expected. A great QB makes this roster a 10+ win team. Saves everyone's job, regardless of how much is given up. 

 

McLaurin + Thomas + Samuel

Gibson + McKissic

 

That's actually a decent ensemble for a high level QB. Should be able to add some day 2 or 3 picks to the arsenal too, and maybe a surprise 1-yr contract to play with said QB. 

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

I actually believe the opposite. Lots of movement this year. 

 

They made the huge mistake of not drafting Herbert, so they have to leverage everything they have for a veteran FA or a top pick. There is no other option available to them.

 

They are painted to a corner. Defense isn't good enough to win on its own unless Chase Young becomes a DPOY type player, and that is a huge question mark at this point. 

 

It's all-in. 

 

Rivera talked about a lot of movement expected. A great QB makes this roster a 10+ win team. Saves everyone's job, regardless of how much is given up. 

 

McLaurin + Thomas + Samuel

Gibson + McKissic

 

That's actually a decent ensemble for a high level QB. Should be able to add some day 2 or 3 picks to the arsenal too, and maybe a surprise 1-yr contract to play with said QB. 

Yeah, I was meaning there aren’t many options other than going all in. Issue we have is that we are far from being a desirable destination, so a stop gap is a real possibility.

 

In theory we have talent. Injuries, fumbling issues over shadow that right now. Work to be done.

[Koolblue13]

5 hours ago, method man said:

They gave up the extra first as additional comp to dump Goff’s contract. The Lions didn’t really want Goff

 

Given where the market is, my guess is 2 1sts or a 1st, a 3rd and a player. They are not going to take one of the pass rushers because theirs are better than ours

Yeah, I knew about the Goff contract. I still think it's going to take us extra to get the trade to happen because we're such a ****hole franchise though. Much bigger albatross around our necks than a big contract on a mediocre starter.

7 hours ago, zskins said:

 

Why do you guys always want to pay more than the QB is worth? 

Always? I didn't want to trade anything last year. I've been against every QB move for a decade or more except drafting Kirk and I didn't want to pay him either. I'm sick of it.

 

A year of watching this team fall apart and lose because our QB is so bad has finally broken me and I don't care about anything else.

 

I'd love to sign Williams and Wagner to finish our defense and draft a RB and Oline and just plow over people all year, but if we trot out Taylor ****ing Heinicke again it won't matter. We have to get a QB or nothing else matters.

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, method man said:

 

Given where the market is, my guess is 2 1sts or a 1st, a 3rd and a player. 

Agrees, these feel for in line with costs for some of these guys then what the teams are looking for. They are going to shoot for the moon.

It may cost a little more for WFT than others due to the players not being willing to come here....all eventually falls back to our illustrious owner 

35 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

They made the huge mistake of not drafting Herbert, so they have to leverage everything they have for a veteran FA or a top pick. There is no other option available to them.

 

McLaurin + Thomas + Samuel

Gibson + McKissic

 

That's actually a decent ensemble for a high level QB. Should be able to add some day 2 or 3 picks to the arsenal too, and maybe a surprise 1-yr contract to play with said QB. 

I actually had not looked at from this side and you are correct, on the offensive side of the ball we do have a lot in place. Regardless of the line play over the past two weeks we have had a lot of good play from them as well and I don't feel horrible about our TE position for the first time in years