The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

Some of Wentz's critics say that Wentz was never accurate and the reason why he will never be who he once was is because he had two superpowers in his heyday that could offset that but now he only has one of those superpowers. 

 

A. the long ball

 

B. Mobility -- that extends to off platform throws.

 

And now they believe he just has A.  Because B is a diluted version of what he once was where he doesn't have the same mobility and when he tries the off platform stuff ala Mahomes he makes too many bad decisions. 

 

I guess we are about to find out.  I am not worried about Rivera turning Wentz into a game manager judging by the reports from camp where we keep hearing there is a ton of vertical-deep throws.  Russell was talking about this the other day.  The Finlay crew, etc, saying its not a well kept secret that they are going deep a lot.

 

I do think Ballard isn't crazy for wanting though Wentz to do the layups though.  And Rivera hinting at the same.  I don't think that's anything to do with game managing but simply coaching him to take the checkdown when nothing is open.  That was one of Kurt Warner's rips on Wentz about him taking sacks against Jackonville and killing drives when he had wide open checkdowns that could have turned into big plays.  And to Wentz's credit, Wentz took Warner up on his offer to help him. 

 

That's been consistent with reports in practice which its the slow developing plays where Wentz keeps the ball longer, waiting for a WR to get open are the ones where he's more likely to stuggle with.   And according to some there judging by practice they believe during the season he'd be taking a bunch of sacks to the extent that even Montez Sweat is telling him to get rid of the ball.  But the quick game and designed deep balls is where he's done well for the most part. 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DJHJR86]

One of the common criticisms I have seen of him is that he thinks of himself as a Rodgers or Mahomes mentally, but he's nowhere near that physically.  It's a little alarming at how many times he refused the safe and easy throws last year.  

[Skinsinparadise]

lol, it wasn't too hard to guess that the national media would enjoy piling on 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris 44]

47 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Some of Wentz's critics say that Wentz was never accurate and the reason why he will never be who he once was is because he had two superpowers in his heyday that could offset that but now he only has one of those superpowers. 

 

A. the long ball

 

B. Mobility -- that extends to off platform throws.

 

And now they believe he just has A.  Because B is a diluted version of what he once was where he doesn't have the same mobility and when he tries the off platform stuff ala Mahomes he makes too many bad decisions. 

 

I guess we are about to find out.  I am not worried about Rivera turning Wentz into a game manager judging by the reports from camp where we keep hearing there is a ton of vertical-deep throws.  Russell was talking about this the other day.  The Finlay crew, etc, saying its not a well kept secret that they are going deep a lot.

 

I do think Ballard isn't crazy for wanting though Wentz to do the layups though.  And Rivera hinting at the same.  I don't think that's anything to do with game managing but simply coaching him to take the checkdown when nothing is open.  That was one of Kurt Warner's rips on Wentz about him taking sacks against Jackonville and killing drives when he had wide open checkdowns that could have turned into big plays.  And to Wentz's credit, Wentz took Warner up on his offer to help him. 

 

That's been consistent with reports in practice which its the slow developing plays where Wentz keeps the ball longer, waiting for a WR to get open are the ones where he's more likely to stuggle with.   And according to some there judging by practice they believe during the season he'd be taking a bunch of sacks to the extent that even Montez Sweat is telling him to get rid of the ball.  But the quick game and designed deep balls is where he's done well for the most part. 

 

 

To go along with this, Wentz height lends itself to being in a position to throw the dump offs quickly when nothing is open down field. I recall a photo of him in OTA's where he was a full head above the line (obviously both liens were stooped over while engaging but still) and could see the back coming out of the backfield with ease. Sounds simple but Heineke does not possess that luxury and I think its a big deal. The deep ball threat that he possesses also helps clear out the space underneath. Now getting Weintz to take and look for the check downs may be the hard part.

[Koolblue13]

[HigSkin]

 

"It feels good, could definitely get better," Wentz said about the offense's timing and rhythm. "But it’s still early, we’re only two weeks into camp and those are the things that particularly we’re working on. We’re also not game-planning for our defense, seeing different looks and all those things. So, I feel like it’s in a good place, but it’s just going to keep getting better. Far from perfect, but it’s fun developing chemistry with those guys.”

 

“I think it’s just still a process, to be honest," McLaurin said. "I think the best thing that I can continue to do is be as available as I can in practice. ... I know we’re going through some growing pains; I’ve had that in the past. But I think just his demeanor and my demeanor make for a good foundation along with the other guys we have in our room. We have a lot of guys who are just unselfish and are not going to really get too frustrated. Just trust in the process of what we are trying to get done.”

 

"It takes time to develop that timing. It takes a lot of conversations too," Wentz said. "You go out for a rep at practice, whether you hit it or miss it, you come in and watch the films and say, 'This is what I was seeing, this is what I was feeling,' and you talk through it. It’s still early, it’s not perfect. It’s in a good place but it’s going to keep getting better. ... I feel good about where we’re headed.”

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by HigSkin

[bird_1972]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Love seeing this! Hope it continues throughout the season and pays dividends.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Bifflog]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

lol, it wasn't too hard to guess that the national media would enjoy piling on 

 

 

 

 

God I wish I could erase Pat McAfee from the various interests I have that he invades...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Ut oh...watch out if he starts holding bible studies with Heinicke and complains about the skimpy costumes of the dance team lol...

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Twitter seemed to highlight some successes, so was this Wentz's best day of practice?

[CobraCommander]

1 hour ago, Bifflog said:

 

God I wish I could erase Pat McAfee from the various interests I have that he invades...

Why can't he just sit down? Also who is his buddy that always has to have a giant dong of a cigar in his mouth? Do guys really not know what it looks like when they always have a big brown thing in their mouths?

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Ut oh...watch out if he starts holding bible studies with Heinicke and complains about the skimpy costumes of the dance team lol...

 

 

Please stop trying to get me banned again.

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Ut oh...watch out if he starts holding bible studies with Heinicke and complains about the skimpy costumes of the dance team lol...

We'll know it's over if Wentz one-ups the old Lord of the Rings gang and starts quoting Chronicles of Narnia.

[DJHJR86]

 

Brad Johnson weighing in.

 

[skinzplay]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Somebody get @KDawg some smelling salts, stat! 😁

[Thinking Skins]

This is what I was just reading up on Wentz vs Rivers (the last two QBs of the Colts, and two QBs who have also played in both the Coryell and WCO). 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/colts/film/yac-numbers-down-2021

Quote

Philip (Rivers) was different. He was getting the ball to them right now and they had to create a lot of their yards after the catch where as we try to push the ball a little bit down the field where yes, you may make the big catch but it’s catch and tackle for a 30-yard gain. It’s just a different style of offense that we play this year.

 

 

 

To add some context to what Brady is saying here, the offense is much different in how it attacks opposing defenses. Rivers liked to attack defenses by using his running backs and underneath throws.

 

 

 

Boasting a much bigger arm than Rivers, Wentz opened up the playbook a bit more. He likes to attack the outside of the defense and use the sideline more down the field. In fact, Wentz has attempted more passes outside the numbers (10+ yards down the field) than Rivers did last year despite having 56 less attempts.

 

 

 

Here is some examples of how Wentz prefers to attack a defense. He likes play-action passes that allow him to either attack the outside of the defense or passes that allow his receivers to sit down in tight zones over the middle. 

 

 

 

The Colts tailor their offense to the quarterback, not the other way around. So, with these plays being Wentz's preference, other passing concepts have somewhat been phased out.

 

 

 

Some routes, such as shallow crossers and mesh concepts, have been taken out of the playbook because Wentz just doesn't often throw those routes:[

 

There's a lot more but this ties into some of the difference between the Coryell offense and the WCO. WCO is horizontal whereas Coryell is vertical. Wentz seems to be a lot better at vertical offences. Add to that, WCO are specialized on making plays with poor talent and Coryell is all about having better talent across the board. They're are some good articles to read on this but I really think Wentz is not made for a WCO. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Thinking Skins

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, Thinking Skins said:

 

To add to this is the great Norv Turner. I think he's really good at getting QBs to perform. Remember that he coached Rivers to some of his best years. He's not a coach here but I'm thinking that between the Turner's and the Zempeze's, one thing they'll know is QBs. 

[TheShredder]

4 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Ut oh...watch out if he starts holding bible studies with Heinicke and complains about the skimpy costumes of the dance team lol...

 

 

[TheShredder]

3 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Twitter seemed to highlight some successes, so was this Wentz's best day of practice?

Team should take Wentz out and loosen him up.

 

 

Team Building

 

Wentz can take Command

Edited August 9, 2022 by TheShredder

[bowhunter]

4 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Ut oh...watch out if he starts holding bible studies with Heinicke and complains about the skimpy costumes of the dance team lol...

 

 

Definitely a much better option than the D. Haskins (RIP) and Deshaun Watson models of QB development.  Not a thing here worthy of ridicule.  To keep this as a Stadium point (and not one that belongs in the Tailgate,) I'll suggest that anything that helps our QB room feel anchored and like family is largely a good thing. Good for them for finding a common ground.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

[redskinss]

Sounds like Pittsburgh is having  their picket is a bust moment because he was a first round pick and didn't go straight to the pro bowl.

Maybe we could trade them jamin for a 5th rounder and they can send us picket and take that 5th rounder back and we can both be patient.

[NoCalMike]

I never get worried about "lack of chemistry" when it comes to a specific player in training camp.

 

 McLaurin has been with the team less time than the other WRs this offseason, period. You only get so many reps with each player during practice.  A QB is either accurate (generally speaking) or he isn't.  The chemistry takes time to develop with each player, so it's reasonable to assume that Wentz's timing with McLaurin is behind the progress of where it is with other players, that's just common sense.  That kind of thing shouldn't be worrisome unless it is happening in September, October, & beyond.

[bowhunter]

15 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I never get worried about "lack of chemistry" when it comes to a specific player in training camp.

 

 McLaurin has been with the team less time than the other WRs this offseason, period. You only get so many reps with each player during practice.  A QB is either accurate (generally speaking) or he isn't.  The chemistry takes time to develop with each player, so it's reasonable to assume that Wentz's timing with McLaurin is behind the progress of where it is with other players, that's just common sense.  That kind of thing shouldn't be worrisome unless it is happening in September, October, & beyond.

I would think that is significant IF there is a difference in size/speed of the receivers. But some of this accuracy issue is beyond one of knowing where the receiver likes the ball. All three of our top receivers are in the 4.3-4.4 range, and all 3 fit within the 6' +/- range. If they are all running the route appropriately then there should only be a 4-6" difference in each pass thrown to them. Now if he is trying to lead a receiver on a go route, he might throw it a bit differently for  4.6 Harmon vs 4.2 Dotson. But the issue is a ball thrown 4 feet too high or into the dirt. That doesn't have a darn thing to do with chemistry, that's a mental/mechanics thing.

*disclaimer, I was a Defensive End in high school, not a QB. (Probably because I threw a lot of footballs 4 feet too high lol)