The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[cakmoney61]

I remember watching Wentz toy with Washington's defense and complaining to myself about why they can't ever get a QB as good as Carson Wentz.  And now, several years later, he's Washington's starting QB.  If he gets his mind right, Washington will be a problem, because he still has all the physical attributes one needs to be a franchise QB.

 

Going forward, I would love to see the team trade back far enough in the first round of the draft to get that third-round pick back then draft a WR.  I prefer Williams from Alabama.  He and McClaurin would scare defenses to death with the strong-armed Wentz throwing them the football.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by cakmoney61
Added a short paragraph.

[HigSkin]

EB on The Junkies just said his people are telling him the Scott Turner is super pumped because they got a guy who can make all the throws in his offense.

[FootballZombie]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A.  An Eagles reporter saying it was Wentz who wanted to leave -- not the Eagles wanting to dumping him.  The Eagles according to the reporter he had on his show said the Eagles tried to even talk Wentz into staying.

 

Didn't they have to give up a record amount of dead cap to move him? I can see why they wanted to keep him, nobody wants to do that.

 

That situation had to come to an end though. Even on the outside looking in there were some serious nightmare fuel leaking out.

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Didn't they have to give up a record amount of dead cap to move him? I can see why they wanted to keep him, nobody wants to do that.

 

That situation had to come to an end though. Even on the outside looking in there were some serious nightmare fuel leaking out.

The Eagles decided they were going to move on from Wentz and wanted him to help get Hurts ready to replace him, while he was still in his prime and after his back up took them to the SB after Wentz got them to the playoffs and got hurt on a dirty play. I'd be pretty pissed off too.

[Koolblue13]

Here's an interesting game. Shows why he didn't get a lot of yards. This highlights how good their LBers and RB are. Wentz only had 12 passes in this game, but you can see him running. Big mother ****er gets the short yardage plays no problem. Also highlights how bad their Oline played last year.

 

 

[Conn]

 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

 

Turner has to be incredibly excited. There were always guys running wide open down the field, that Heinicke just couldn't reach. Now you have a 6'5" 240lbs guy with a huge cannon strapped to him that can make all the throws with ease. It's going to be excited to watch the Turner (Scott and Norv) offense, especially if we add a RB.

[bowhunter]

I admit to doing the "Carson Wince" when I first heard of the deal. But coming around slowly, there's something to like about this move and I believe it was the only viable option at the time.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

EB on The Junkies just said his people are telling him the Scott Turner is super pumped because they got a guy who can make all the throws in his offense.

 

on 980, they had a PFF guy, same one who loved Fitz last year. In short, he's not in love with Wentz mainly because of him throwing the ball in harms way but he also said he's a "signficant upgrade" over Heinicke. 

 

Standig followed that.  Not much in it.  They speculated about getting a QB.  Standig didn't think they'd do it in the first round.  But in the 2nd might be on the table.  Then backtracked from that saying maybe not because of Wentz's issues with the Eagles drafting Hurts.  Sheehan responds that he wouldn't let that stop him and the context is different because they can tell Wentz to grow up and push back. 

 

In that context, I agree with Sheehan.  I don't really personally have a strong opinion about whether they should take a QB or not, I see the argument both ways.  But I don't think the context is the same as Philly.  Wentz was "the guy" in Philly and they used a high draft pick to take another QB.  I can get why that stung.  Different context here.  He is in a prove it year versus we got you and now we can throw away the key.

 

Not that it matters but its amusing how much some of these radio personalities absolutely hate this deal.  I recall Hoffman on air a couple of days ago ranting on it. Russell. Rouhier. Finlay inititally did but then he backed off some. 

 

Sheehan goes I hope the competitor in him would love playing the Eagles twice and playing Indy next year -- but then goes hey based on his persona he probably cowers about the idea.

 

I am thinking listening to that, man, these guys really aren't doing their homework on him.  Carson is considering uber competitive.  Actually one of the Colts reporters liked that specific aspect of the deal from the Commanders standpoint saying they like the idea of a pissed off Carson because of his competitive streak and this move likes strike a fire under him.

 

Sheehan, now recapping his Eagles reporter interview from yesterday as to the slams on Wentz  even though the same reporter said he would have made the deal and said plenty good about it.

 

Anyway, I think some of these reporters-radio personalities might turn around a little when he does his first interviews.  They seem to think he's this mega sullen A-hole. The thing is if you watch his interviews and delve deeper into his persona.  He doesn't come off at all like a mega A-hole to me.  A bit passive-aggressive/insecure yes.  But most that I've heard about his personality speaks to him being typically a nice guy with some charisma to boot.  Will see. 

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

on 980, they had a PFF guy, same one who loved Fitz last year. In short, he's not in love with Wentz mainly because of him throwing the ball in harms way but he also said he's a "signficant upgrade" over Heinicke. 

 

Standig followed that.  Not much in it.  They speculated about getting a QB.  Standig didn't think they'd do it in the first round.  But in the 2nd might be on the table.  Then backtracked from that saying maybe not because of Wentz's issues with the Eagles drafting Hurts.  Sheehan responds that he wouldn't let that stop him and the context is different because they can tell Wentz to grow up and push back. 

 

In that context, I agree with Sheehan.  I don't really personally have a strong opinion about whether they should take a QB or not, I see the argument both ways.  But I don't think the context is the same as Philly.  Wentz was "the guy" in Philly and they used a high draft pick to take another QB.  I can get why that stung.  Different context here.  He is in a prove it year versus we got you and now we can throw away the key.

 

Not that it matters but its amusing how much some of these radio personalities absolutely hate this deal.  I recall Hoffman on air a couple of days ago ranting on it. Russell. Rouhier. Finlay inititally did but then he backed off some. 

 

Sheehan goes I hope the competitor in him would love playing the Eagles twice and playing Indy next year -- but then goes hey based on his persona he probably cowers about the idea.

 

I am thinking listening to that, man, these guys really aren't doing their homework on him.  Carson is considering uber competitive.  Actually one of the Colts reporters liked that specific aspect of the deal from the Commanders standpoint saying they like the idea of a pissed off Carson because of his competitive streak and this move likes strike a fire under him.

 

Sheehan, now recapping his Eagles reporter interview from yesterday as to the slams on Wentz  even though the same reporter said he would have made the deal and said plenty good about it.

 

Anyway, I think some of these reporters-radio personalities might turn around a little when he does his first interviews.  They seem to think he's this mega sullen A-hole. The thing is if you watch his interviews and delve deeper into his persona.  He doesn't come off at all like a mega A-hole to me.  A bit passive-aggressive/insecure yes.  But most that I've heard about his personality speaks to him being typically a nice guy with some charisma to boot.  Will see. 

 

I like listening to Sheehan (one of the only people talented enough who do a radio show solo).  However, this was the same dude that:

1). openly advocated constantly to trade the 1st last year for Darnold

2). Said Barkley was the best non-qb in the division.

3). LOVED the Giants going into the season last year.

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

I like listening to Sheehan (one of the only people talented enough who do a radio show solo).  However, this was the same dude that:

1). openly advocated constantly to trade the 1st last year for Darnold

2). Said Barkley was the best non-qb in the division.

3). LOVED the Giants going into the season last year.

 

Yeah and I'd add

 

4.  Daniel Jones he thought is the real deal

5.  Not too high on Mac Jones, he said Trask > Mac Jones.

6.  Big time high on the Giants before the last season.

 

He did like Stafford as I did.  But yeah otherwise he's not exactly on a hot streak.  But I don't even care about getting things wrong, I'd just love to see him own up to it once or twice.   He likes to remind that he was higher on the Eagles than most and that he liked Stafford.  That was true.  But everything else is omitted.  Yet he makes fun of some of his callers who talk up about being right about everything.  Sheehan though is really entertaining and runs a good show.  But man is he infuriating on some of his points. 

 

He's been really up the Eagles butt and Jalen Hurts for awhile.  That's his team so to speak, he doesn't root for them but he talks them up a lot.  He asks Standig where does Wentz rank in this division.  Standig goes 2nd.  Sheehan naturally says, nope 3rd after Hurts.  Well at least he's gotten off of his Daniel Jones love. 😀

 

My issue with him here is often he can be balanced but when he decides not to be balanced like this situation he goes really over the top.  And IMO he's really over the top right now about Wentz.

 

The whole narrative that he's stuck with, two teams dumped him so cased closed, about Wentz has been disputed to an extent by some of the same people he's interviewed.

 

At a minimum there is a mixed narrative about whether there was a consensus on trading Wentz.  One national reporter and now two Indy reporters have said there wasn't a consensus on it.  It's clear as a bell that Irsay was the driving force on it.  So somehow whatever Irsay thinks is the gospel?  Since when?  He's been known to be almost as weird and dysfunctional as Dan.

 

Apples to apples to this would be Brad Johnson.  Minnesota traded Brad Johnson.  But Dan in short order decided to move on from Brad Johnson.  So Brad moved off of two different teams in short order.  And heck if Dan Synder says ts time to move on for a QB, the dude can't be wrong.  

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo#44]

22 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

I like listening to Sheehan (one of the only people talented enough who do a radio show solo).  However, this was the same dude that:

1). openly advocated constantly to trade the 1st last year for Darnold

2). Said Barkley was the best non-qb in the division.

3). LOVED the Giants going into the season last year.

 

 

Sarcasm aside--I do like Sheehan--but no one is right all the time.

 

One of my big issues with a lot of local and national media--they're so quick to be first, they no long care about being right. Yes, he has red flags, yes he has flaws. There are some I like more than others (Keim, Galdi, Sheehan vs. Grant Paulsen, Chris Russell), there seems to be an automatic negative response to everything this team does, which is well-earned, however it just seems no one wants to pause. I initially hated this deal with a passion--I hated the picks and cap space for a mediocre QB--but as we get more information, I am warming up to it.

 

Word from Indianapolis media is that this is a Irsay-driven move--that Ballard and Reich were not on board with it. If you look over his career, 2021 is more in-line than with his career than 2020. Seems people are focusing on that other than his whole body of work. Everyone except PFF like Wentz (Pro Football Reference gave him a 14 AV--2 more than Wilson last year; 9th overall QBR). Several Colts players came to his defense after he was traded. I think the truth lies somewhere in between--he's a certainly an upgrade over Heinicke. Our line is better than the Colts--probably the best line he's had in 3 years. McLaurin is the best wide receiver he's thrown to...ever. I think Gibson is going to benefit the most from this--no more 11-man boxes. I am beginning to think Wentz is actually underrated.

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

on 980, they had a PFF guy, same one who loved Fitz last year. In short, he's not in love with Wentz mainly because of him throwing the ball in harms way but he also said he's a "signficant upgrade" over Heinicke. 

 

Standig followed that.  Not much in it.  They speculated about getting a QB.  Standig didn't think they'd do it in the first round.  But in the 2nd might be on the table.  Then backtracked from that saying maybe not because of Wentz's issues with the Eagles drafting Hurts.  Sheehan responds that he wouldn't let that stop him and the context is different because they can tell Wentz to grow up and push back. 

 

In that context, I agree with Sheehan.  I don't really personally have a strong opinion about whether they should take a QB or not, I see the argument both ways.  But I don't think the context is the same as Philly.  Wentz was "the guy" in Philly and they used a high draft pick to take another QB.  I can get why that stung.  Different context here.  He is in a prove it year versus we got you and now we can throw away the key.

 

Not that it matters but its amusing how much some of these radio personalities absolutely hate this deal.  I recall Hoffman on air a couple of days ago ranting on it. Russell. Rouhier. Finlay inititally did but then he backed off some. 

 

Sheehan goes I hope the competitor in him would love playing the Eagles twice and playing Indy next year -- but then goes hey based on his persona he probably cowers about the idea.

 

I am thinking listening to that, man, these guys really aren't doing their homework on him.  Carson is considering uber competitive.  Actually one of the Colts reporters liked that specific aspect of the deal from the Commanders standpoint saying they like the idea of a pissed off Carson because of his competitive streak and this move likes strike a fire under him.

 

Sheehan, now recapping his Eagles reporter interview from yesterday as to the slams on Wentz  even though the same reporter said he would have made the deal and said plenty good about it.

 

Anyway, I think some of these reporters-radio personalities might turn around a little when he does his first interviews.  They seem to think he's this mega sullen A-hole. The thing is if you watch his interviews and delve deeper into his persona.  He doesn't come off at all like a mega A-hole to me.  A bit passive-aggressive/insecure yes.  But most that I've heard about his personality speaks to him being typically a nice guy with some charisma to boot.  Will see. 

 

Shaun King on The Junkies who does some gig in Vegas loves the move.  He said Washington finally has a real NFL QB.  He also said reference contracts, the new norm now is $40 mil for the above average, 2nd tier guys in the $30 mil range and everybody should get used to it.  In fact, if Wentz gets some of his issues worked out, he would be a $40 mil QB. 

 

They talked a little about teams who don't have QB's and Shaun said there are only about 10 teams NOT looking to upgrade, even those who have the average ones.  They discussed the Steelers and he hears if things go well with Watson, it's their target and Watson prefers Pittsburgh. 

 

Really interesting the ranges of emotions associated with this Wentz move.  The Junkies did a bit on whether to draft a QB.  EB & Cakes would not and would go all in with weapons to support Wentz and just fully commit to him this year and see how it goes. 

 

I mean if we can get 7 wins with Taylor in year with the toughest schedule, fielding a non Covid team with scrubs, injuries, off field distractions, etc. one would think Wentz could gets us a few more wins with an easier schedule.

 

I agree with what is said here -

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by HigSkin

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

 

Word from Indianapolis media is that this is a Irsay-driven move--that Ballard and Reich were not on board with it. If you look over his career, 2021 is more in-line than with his career than 2020. Seems people are focusing on that other than his whole body of work. Everyone except PFF like Wentz (Pro Football Reference gave him a 14 AV--2 more than Wilson last year; 9th overall QBR). Several Colts players came to his defense after he was traded. I think the truth lies somewhere in between--he's a certainly an upgrade over Heinicke. Our line is better than the Colts--probably the best line he's had in 3 years. McLaurin is the best wide receiver he's thrown to...ever. I think Gibson is going to benefit the most from this--no more 11-man boxes. I am beginning to think Wentz is actually underrated.

 

The PFF guy on Sheehan's show started lukewarm about Wentz.  But then they started with comparisons.  What about him versus Heinicke, Sheehan asked?  The PFF guys goes he's a signficant upgrade over Heinicke.  Then they run though the gamut of available QBs, and he picks Wentz over all of them including Jimmy G -- the only one he didn't was Winston.  And its not that he thought Winston was better but he likes Winston's potential and likes the fact that he's cheap.

 

My point is that's sort of how I feel.  Though I do like Wentz over Winston and really any of these guys left including the QBs in this draft.  

 

I was one of the people months back who brought up Wentz's baggage from Philly when he was brought up as a possibility in the QB thread.  I read that long article about it.  I am aware of it.   But I don't think this is a big roll of the dice.   Maybe they gave up more than I'd like.  But I can live with it.  Wentz reaching his peak potentially to me gets me much more jazzed than Jimmy G or name that reclamation FA.  

 

I am not saying slam dunk he ends up the right guy.  But I don't think there is a guy left after Wilson that was available with his level of upside.

 

And the more I learn about him I do love the idea of him playing with a chip on his shoulder this year.  One ex-player made a good point on the NFL Network which is sometimes the worst thing to happen for a player needing a wakeup call is to do what Wentz did and that is go to the Colts because the narrative behind it -- had some the Eagles were the problem not Wentz.   This going down in this way will likely help Wentz's focus to make the improvements he needs to make.  And again its not like he's coming off an awful season.  He was good last year but not good in the last 2 games when it mattered most.  

 

[Riggo#44]

I've seen a couple of takes that Wentz would have been better off going to a "winning organization" and rehabilitating his image, like Trubisky...

 

What are they basing that on? Trubisky threw 8 passes last year...one of which was intercepted. He's "rehabilitated" why?

 

One of the takes I agree with most actually came from Grant and Danny, of all places: Wentz doesn't have any other options--he has to come here. We've been scored so much by QBs--this was a definite. We did not want to roll the bones and get scorned by free agent QBs. So was it a desperate move? Probably. But it isn't has terrible as I initially took it.

 

The other thing this opens wide: Trading down in the draft. It's almost a must--I am hoping a QB is there and someone gets real, real itchy.

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig

 

 

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sheehan responds that he wouldn't let that stop him and the context is different because they can tell Wentz to grow up and push back. 

 

 

This always works well when I say this to my wife. I see no issues with this approach.

[skinsfan93]

When news first broke, I posted on here that we could still draft a qb at #11. There’s only one guy worth it at that spot and it’s Willis. Guy is a developmental player. Let him sit for a year or two and see how things go with Wentz. 
 

I know this might affect Wentzs psyche but who cares. He’s not a 25 year old player coming off a $100 million dollar contract. Philly completely mishandled the drafting of Hurts. Howie said they were an quarterback factory while they had huge holes elsewhere that a second round pick would fill. Plus guys like Alex Smith (Mahomes) and Jimmy G (Lance) were able to handle it, Wentz should be able to do as well. 
 

If Willis is gone, then hopefully we can trade down and get an additional third. 
 

As far as any Ertz talk cmon Cards are not gonna let him go. I would prefer a taller wideout like Alshon or Pittman who Wentz likes to throw to. 

[Koolblue13]

Everyone understood when Rodgers was pissed they drafted Love, even though he was much older. Wentz was a couple years removed from an MVP caliber season and still really young and they went after Hurts. Anyone would have been pissed off. 

[FootballZombie]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Wentz was a couple years removed from an MVP caliber season and still really young and they went after Hurts. Anyone would have been pissed off. 

 

Didn't he have behavior issues b4 Hurts?

 

I seem to remember stories about him getting in fistfights w/ teammates during the Superbowl run and that was years b4 they got Hurts.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, FootballZombie said:

 

Didn't he have behavior issues b4 Hurts?

 

I seem to remember stories about him getting in fistfights w/ teammates during the Superbowl run and that was years b4 they got Hurts.

Yes, that supposedly did happen. He was ****ing about how they (the injured guys) should be playing because they got them to the playoffs and one of the guys didn't like it and accused him of routing against the team. Strange since he and Foles are such great friends. Nobody has talked publicly about it, so not sure exactly what happened.

[skinsfan4128]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Everyone understood when Rodgers was pissed they drafted Love, even though he was much older. Wentz was a couple years removed from an MVP caliber season and still really young and they went after Hurts. Anyone would have been pissed off. 

Agreed,  Kool. But have to throw this out there, who gives a damn? As a starting QB (or at any other position for that matter) in this league, you should always know that teams are going to keep replenishing every year and that eventually you're going to be replaced.

Besides, if you're doing your job on the field, it shouldn't matter who's behind you on the depth chart.

HTTR!

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not saying slam dunk he ends up the right guy.  But I don't think there is a guy left after Wilson that was available with his level of upside.

 

If Carr is/was available, he would have been better than Wentz.  Watson, pass due to the issues he has/having.  

[Koolblue13]

Just now, skinsfan4128 said:

Agreed,  Kool. But have to throw this out there, who gives a damn? As a starting QB (or at any other position for that matter) in this league, you should always know that teams are going to keep replenishing every year and that eventually you're going to be replaced.

Besides, if you're doing your job on the field, it shouldn't matter who's behind you on the depth chart.

HTTR!

I get that, but when you have crap WRs and only a TE to throw to and instead of getting a weapon and supporting your QB, you start to move on from him and expect him to mentor his replacement? **** that. I'd be a problem too.

[RWJ]

14 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

When news first broke, I posted on here that we could still draft a qb at #11. There’s only one guy worth it at that spot and it’s Willis. Guy is a developmental player. Let him sit for a year or two and see how things go with Wentz. 
 

I know this might affect Wentzs psyche but who cares. He’s not a 25 year old player coming off a $100 million dollar contract. Philly completely mishandled the drafting of Hurts. Howie said they were an quarterback factory while they had huge holes elsewhere that a second round pick would fill. Plus guys like Alex Smith (Mahomes) and Jimmy G (Lance) were able to handle it, Wentz should be able to do as well. 
 

If Willis is gone, then hopefully we can trade down and get an additional third. 
 

As far as any Ertz talk cmon Cards are not gonna let him go. I would prefer a taller wideout like Alshon or Pittman who Wentz likes to throw to. 

Keep an eye on Pickett.  Keim has mentioned in previous podcasts that RR and Co. like him and is there they would take him at #11.  Of course this was before the trade of Wentz.  I can see the case for Willis with his athleticism and strong arm and smarts (Wonderlic score of 32).  One other QB that I would keep an eye on is Ridder as Keim has mentioned him too but in the 2nd round.